Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[Musicman1228]

Richard,

I never said godless men got truth without God being present in their lives. God used Nebuchadnezzar for His purposes. The music of Mozart could only have come through the direct intervention on God. But just because someone is godless or a heaven-daring sinner does not mean that God will not use them for the dissemination of truth in whatever form.

What God does expect of His Kingdom that He doesn't expect from those that are not is the ability to determine what is pure truth from truth that has been mixed with lies. The latter is Satan's specialty, and he can make that mixture so convincing and appealing that people who believe they are of the Kingdom will be deceived into thinking THAT version of the truth is in fact the real thing.

Jesus NEVER guaranteed that people that love and serve His would not, or could not be fooled into believing a lie as if it were the truth.

[Guest]

What God does expect of His Kingdom that He doesn't expect from those that are not is the ability to determine what is pure truth from truth that has been mixed with lies.

Is this in the Bible somewhere, or did you come up with it on your own?

[Guest]

Are you saying that your source who does not even believe in God, is being led by God, but that he doesn't know it? And if so, then of course my next question would be: How could YOU possibly know it?

This is why studying to prove a hypothesis is the absolute wrong way to study. You grab on to things that seem to lean toward your hypothesis, and you discard, or lightly esteem anything that doesn't. Even parts of the Bible that you claim to believe in. I've been watching you do this for over a year now.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

[Guest]

A tiny example of some texts that you ignore and discard, even though they come from parts of the Bible that you claim to believe wholeheartedly. Simply because they don't support your hypothesis that you don't need faith or grace. And that grace came from Paul, not Jesus.

By the way, if it weren't for grace you wouldn't even be here.

Habbakuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Deu 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.

Is this you? A child in whom there is no faith?

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John says grace came by Jesus Christ. You say no it didn't. The Old Testament says the just shall live by their faith. You say no it's not needed. Faith is believing God's word even though you can't see the end result yet. And Jesus says without it you will never see heaven.

Just some food for thought hypothesis man.

[wayfinder]

Richard, I believe in faith and I believe in grace, but I do not believe we are saved by faith through grace and not by works of the law.

Ephesians 2:8 NAS

For by grace you have been saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God ;

Romans 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified ;

15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Jesus says quite the opposite.

Matthew 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life ?"

17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good ? There is only One who is good ; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

18 Then he said to Him, "Which ones ?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY ; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL ; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS ;

19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER ; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Salvation by faith through grace would guarantee salvation to every believing Christian, that would be approx. 1.8 billion people. Consider this text.

Matthew 7:14 NAS

"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

What God does expect of His Kingdom that He doesn't expect from those that are not is the ability to determine what is pure truth from truth that has been mixed with lies.

Is this in the Bible somewhere, or did you come up with it on your own?

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.   (5) For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. Matt.24:4-5.

Jesus is speaking to His own disciples and telling them that it is their responsibility to NOT BE DECEIVED by just anyone that says they believe in Jesus Christ. Anyone can claim they are a believer in Jesus. It is this type of person that has the greatest potential to lead an 'innocent' believer astray. Most Christians believe that because they have the infallible Bible that it is impossible for them to be deceived, but this is not what Jesus said.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matt.7:15.

“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Matt.10:16.

[John317]

I don't think anyone is denying that people claiming to be Christians can be deceived. Of course they can. And there's no guarantee, either, that just because someone has the Bible and is reading it, he won't be deceived. But the point here is that people aren't deceived BECAUSE they are studying and relying on the Bible. Rather, they are deceived in spite of having the Bible.

Similarly, Eve was not deceived because she had the command of God not to eat of the Tree. She was deceived in spite of knowing the command because although she knew God's word, she accepted the lies of Satan instead.

All of God's word, the Scriptures, is true, but many people allow humans whom the Devil works through to tell them the Bible means something it doesn't.

[John317]

.... I believe in faith and I believe in grace, but I do not believe we are saved by faith through grace and not by works of the law.

Ephesians 2:8 NAS

For by grace you have been saved through faith ; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God ;

Romans 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

...Jesus says quite the opposite.

Matthew 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life ?"

17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good ? There is only One who is good ; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

There's actually no genuine contraditions between the teachings of Christ and those of the apostle Paul. Paul is not saying that believers don't need to obey God's moral law. Nor is Jesus saying that we earn salvation by our good works. God did not forgive us because we obeyed the law. In fact, apart from God's grace given to me in the Holy Spirit, I wouldn't have any desire to obey God.

Did God save Israel out of Egyptian slavery because they obeyed His laws? Obviously not. Rather, God saved them from slavery IN ORDER THAT they would be able to obey His laws.

Let's consider how Jesus healed people. His miracles are little illustrations or sermons on salvation.

Did Jesus require people to obey His commandments before He healed them? No. All they had to do for Jesus to heal them was to have faith in Him and in His word. Then, once they were healed and well, He commanded them to obey God.

In both instancces-- in Egypt and in the miracles of Jesus-- people had thing to do in order to be saved (healed). In the case of Israel, they had to get up and leave Egypt. If they had stayed there, they wouldn't have been saved.

In the case of people who were healed by Jesus, they had to believe in Jesus' words. And then Jesus gave them His commands. Some people were dead, or possessed by demons, when they were healed. These people could not possibly have earned their healing or salvation by obedience to the law. Healing came to them by grace-- unmerited favor.

Look at some examples and notice the order in which things occurred:

Matt. 8: 1-4--

When he came down from the mountain, great crowds followed him. [2] And behold, a leper came to him and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean." [3] And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. [4] And Jesus said to him, "See that you say nothing to anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a proof to them."

Why was the woman's child in Matt. 15: 28 healed?

Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.

Such illustrations are recorded all through the Gospels.

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

....Salvation by faith through grace would guarantee salvation to every believing Christian, that would be approx. 1.8 billion people.

But Paul doesn't teach "salvation by faith." You're misunderstanding, and misquoting, the apostle Paul. He taught that salvation comes to us by (or because of) God's grace and that we receive this salvation through faith. That is very different from "salvation by faith."

Romans 3:20-31

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

[21] But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— [22] the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [24] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [25] whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. [26] It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

[27] Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. [28] For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. [29] Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [30] since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. [31] Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

[Guest]

There's actually no genuine contraditions between the teachings of Christ and those of the apostle Paul. Paul is not saying that believers don't need to obey God's moral law. Nor is Jesus saying that we earn salvation by our good works. God did not forgive us because we obeyed the law. In fact, apart from God's grace given to me in the Holy Spirit, I wouldn't have any desire to obey God.

Did God save Israel out of Egyptian slavery because they obeyed His laws? Obviously not. Rather, God saved them from slavery IN ORDER THAT they would be able to obey His laws.

Let's consider how Jesus healed people. His miracles are little illustrations or sermons on salvation.

Did Jesus require people to obey His commandments before He healed them? No. All they had to do for Jesus to heal them was to have faith in Him and in His word. Then, once they were healed and well, He commanded them to obey God.

In both instancces-- in Egypt and in the miracles of Jesus-- people had thing to do in order to be saved (healed). In the case of Israel, they had to get up and leave Egypt. If they had stayed there, they wouldn't have been saved.

In the case of people who were healed by Jesus, they had to believe in Jesus' words. And then Jesus gave them His commands. Some people were dead, or possessed by demons, when they were healed. These people could not possibly have earned their healing or salvation by obedience to the law. Healing came to them by grace-- unmerited favor.

Look at some examples and notice the order in which things occurred:

Matt. 8: 1-4--

When he came down from the mountain, great crowds followed him. [2] And behold, a leper came to him and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean." [3] And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. [4] And Jesus said to him, "See that you say nothing to anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a proof to them."

Why was the woman's child in Matt. 15: 28 healed?

Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.

Such illustrations are recorded all through the Gospels.

Wayfinder and MM. You both would do well to really take a good look at what John has layed out for you here. Because this is the way it really is in the Bible. He's got the order right. This is the order that the Bible puts it in. The order that Jesus put things in. And there is no denying it. It is totally different than the order you guys put things in. You guys think that you can somehow make yourselves righteous, and THEN God will give you the Holy Spirit. What an arrogant thought! Israel of old made the same mistake, and failed utterly. So will you unless you get the order of things right.

Note how God dwelt upon the fact that He Himself had done all that had been done for them. He had delivered them from the Egyptians, and He had brought them to Himself. That was the thing which they were continually forgetting, as indicated by their murmurings. They had even gone so far as to question whether the Lord was among them or not; and their murmurings always indicated the thought that they themselves could manage things better than God could. God had brought them by the mountain pass to the Red Sea, and into the desert where there was no food nor drink, and had miraculously supplied their wants in every instance, to make them understand that they could live only by His word.

The covenant which God made with Abraham was founded on faith and trust. "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto Him for righteousness." So when God, in fulfillment of that covenant, was delivering Israel from bondage, all His dealing with them was calculated to teach them trust in Him, so that they might in truth be the children of the covenant.

The People's Mistake

The proper response of the people therefore would have been, "Amen, even so, O Lord, let it be done unto us according to Thy will." On the contrary they said, "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do;" and they repeated their promise, with additional emphasis, even after they had heard the law spoken. It was the same self-confidence that led their descendants to say to Christ, "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" Think of mortal men presuming to be able to do God's work! Christ answered, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." Even so it was in the desert of Sinai, when the law was given and the covenant made.

A Covenant with Death

Their assuming the responsibility of working the works of God, showed lack of appreciation of His greatness and holiness. It is only when men are ignorant of God's righteousness, that they go about to establish their own righteousness, and refuse to submit themselves to the righteousness of God. (See Rom. x. 3.) Their promises were good for nothing, because they had not the power to fulfill them. The covenant, therefore, which was based on those promises was utterly worthless, so far as giving them life was concerned.

All that they could get from that covenant was just what they could get from themselves, and that was death. To trust in it was to make a covenant with death, and to be at agreement with the grave. Their entering into that covenant was a virtual notification to the Lord that they could get along very well without Him; that they were able to fulfill any promise He could make. {1900 EJW, EVCO 332}

[John317]

Very good post, Richard.

[Guest]

E.J. Waggoner said it well. He was right too.

[Musicman1228]

When and under what conditions did Jesus give His own disciples the Holy Spirit?

[wayfinder]

Here is what Paul tells us about the faith of Abraham.

Romans 4:19,20 NAS

Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb ;

yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,

Here is what God tells us about the faith of Abraham.

Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife had borne him no children, and she had an Egyptian maid whose name was Hagar.

2 So Sarai said to Abram, "Now behold, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Please go in to my maid ; perhaps I will obtain children through her." And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

3 After Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram's wife Sarai took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as his wife.

4 He went in to Hagar, and she conceived ; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her sight.

Abraham also told Pharaoh's servants and Abimelech, that Sarai was his sister and deliberately did not say she was his wife, because he feared for his life.

If Abraham is the demonstration of what God expects for our faithfulness, than I can understand that faithfulness and obedience is desired, but not expected, by God. If this is the truth than why did God say the following to Abram.

Genesis 17:1 NAS

Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless

[Musicman1228]

Who gave Abraham his faith, such that he defied God took Haggar as his wife at the behest of Sarah?

Who gave Abraham such faith that thinking to save his own life he gave his wife Sarah to be used by Pharaoh?

What quality of faith is required of us to believe that growing in weakness whereby we are unable to face the challenges of resisting sin makes God stronger such that He will be able to resist sin for us?

What type of faith says that even if we continue to give into the temptation of sin that God will still count us righteous if we will only say that we honestly believe in Him and His sacrifice for us?

How much faith does a person need in order to properly place the blame for their inability to resist sinning on the God who wants them to actually develop the strength to resist sin within themselves?

How much faith does a person need in order to feel justified in waiving the responsibility for their inability to resist sinning by separating their physical body that has a sinful identity from their spirit that has a righteous identity, the righteousness of which was given to them by simply stating their belief in Jesus Christ, such that sinning in the flesh is not sinning in the spirit?

Faith is the expectation of future performance based on past experience. In the context of Christianity as defined by Paul faith allows a person to believe a lie as if it were the truth without having to accept personal responsibility for the results, because that accountability was fully accepted by Jesus Christ and 'credited' to us at the cross in spite of our continuing to sin. This being the case a Christian can believe anything they want about their salvation because in the final analysis what they do does not matter when placed against what Jesus Christ did for them. THAT belief is evil incarnate, and has come into being because Satan has been able to convince the Christian church (including SDA) that God didn't really mean what He said to Adam and Eve (and hence to us) that in the day that they disobeyed they would surly be executed. Satan convinced Adam and Eve and now the church that God would never kill them because He is only LOVE, and LOVE cannot kill.

The truly sad fact is that this lie has worked beautifully in separating the reality of how salvation really works from the wishful thinking of how people want it to work.

[John317]

When and under what conditions did Jesus give His own disciples the Holy Spirit?

Tell us what you have in mind, MM. Is it the same thing that you wrote in your book, The Spirit of the Church? There you make the point that it was the devil who spoke through Peter on the Day of Pentecost.

Is this the message you want Seventh-day Adventists and visitors to read on the Adventist Forum?

My question is, why would SDAs or any other Christian come here to read such drival and doctrines of demons?

I have already shown that your book is in error with regard to what you claim about Satan being the one who inspired Peter to say what he did on the Day of Pentecost. However, you continue to say the same thing over and over again without regard to what anyone else has posted. It's like, "Who cares about the facts, full speed ahead!"

[Guest]

Drival is right John. But so is doctrines of demons. There are some people who part of MM's last post apply to though. People who believe they can do anything they want and still be saved. Who see no need to overcome sin by the power that Christ makes available. But when MM tries to apply that to me, or you, and say that is what we believe, it becomes a lie. Because he knows better.

Not only do I not believe anyone will be saved IN their sins, but the New Testament teaches no such thing either. Anyone who says it does just confirms their own lack of understanding, and their own ignorance.

As far as putting down Abraham for the mistakes he made early on. I don't have the time (or the patience) to go into that here and now. Why waste more words? Like you said: "Who cares about the facts, full speed ahead!"

[Musicman1228]

John,

I asked you a direct question and did not get a direct answer. This is typical of those who cannot or will not answer because the answer would be too much to bear.

I have made no assessment of your theology as you seem to see fit to make of mine. I have place no onus on you except to answer a difficult question or two from time to time. You have your opinions and I have mine. Making it more than that belittles the free exchange of ideas.

So, to repeat: When and for what purpose did Jesus give His own disciples the Holy Spirit?

[Musicman1228]

Drival is right John. But so is doctrines of demons. There are some people who part of MM's last post apply to though. People who believe they can do anything they want and still be saved. Who see no need to overcome sin by the power that Christ makes available. But when MM tries to apply that to me, or you, and say that is what we believe, it becomes a lie. Because he knows better.

Not only do I not believe anyone will be saved IN their sins, but the New Testament teaches no such thing either. Anyone who says it does just confirms their own lack of understanding, and their own ignorance.

As far as putting down Abraham for the mistakes he made early on. I don't have the time (or the patience) to go into that here and now. Why waste more words? Like you said: "Who cares about the facts, full speed ahead!"

From this, Richard, I see that you have no identifiable theology based on the words and teachings of Jesus Christ. Your theology is based on the teachings of Paul who never bothered to find out what Jesus said to His own disciples, rather relying on visions given him by an unidentified being making a claim that he was Jesus Christ that cannot be supported by any eyewitnesses; we only have Paul's own words to the truth of this. You are welcome to your fantasies and myths. I will believe the words and teachings of Jesus Christ from His own mouth.

[Guest]

More drival...

It's obvious from what you write that you are incapable of identifying what theology came from where with any accuracy. So the fact that you can't identify mine comes as no real surprise. Carry on hypothesis man.

[wayfinder]

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand ; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh ; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

Paul is saying that he is saved in his sins, because he does not want to do that which he is doing.

[John317]

John,

I asked you a direct question and did not get a direct answer. This is typical of those who cannot or will not answer because the answer would be too much to bear.

This is absurd because I have posted hundreds of direct answers to you over the past year or more, and you usually ignore them. My posts to you on this very thread are a good example. When I post a direct answer to you, you generally write something unrelated to what I said.

[John317]

Your theology is based on the teachings of Paul who never bothered to find out what Jesus said to His own disciples, rather relying on visions given him by an unidentified being making a claim that he was Jesus Christ that cannot be supported by any eyewitnesses; ....

My theology is most certainly based on the teachings of the Apostle Paul along with the teachings found in the Gospels and in the rest of the Bible. I don't hide that fact at all. I love the Apostle Paul and am deeply grateful that God called him to the work that he did.

The problem is that you and Wayfinder and Dr. Rich don't understand what Paul taught, so you are rejecting and attacking a straw man, not the real Paul.

[John317]

So, to repeat: When and for what purpose did Jesus give His own disciples the Holy Spirit?

Explain your beliefs in this regard.

[John317]

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand ; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh ; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

Paul is saying that he is saved in his sins, because he does not want to do that which he is doing.

No, Paul is describing the subjective experience of people who don't have the Holy Spirit in their lives but are trying to obey God on their own strength. The man of Romans 7 hasn't even accepted Christ as his Savior and Lord until the very last 2 verses of the chapter. Chatpers 6 and 8 show Paul's view of God's ideal for believers. Chapter 7 is about the struggle people have before they fully surrender to Christ. But it also shows the spiritual struggle that anyone will have who isn't led by the Holy Spriit. Notice that there is no mention at all of the Spirit in the description of the man of Romans 7. That is because the Holy Spirit is absent from his life.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand ; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh ; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

Paul is saying that he is saved in his sins, because he does not want to do that which he is doing.

No, Paul is describing the subjective experience of people who don't have the Holy Spirit in their lives but are trying to obey God on their own strength. The man of Romans 7 hasn't even accepted Christ as his Savior and Lord until the very last 2 verses of the chapter. Chatpers 6 and 8 show Paul's view of God's ideal for believers. Chapter 7 is about the struggle people have before they fully surrender to Christ. But it also shows the spiritual struggle that anyone will have who isn't led by the Holy Spriit. Notice that there is no mention at all of the Spirit in the description of the man of Romans 7. That is because the Holy Spirit is absent from his life.

But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. Rom. 7:20.

In addition to what Wayfinder said I want to point out that Paul admitted that he had no control over the sin that was causing him to be arrogant because he believed that it was no longer him that was doing this sin but that which dwelled within him. He even clearly states what this 'thing' is (if you take him at his word):

Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me - so that I would not become arrogant.  2 Cor. 12:7.

Paul was a gnostic and in his mind separated his soul/spirit from his body (The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak). Here he says that he was given a 'messenger of Satan' IN HIS FLESH which in our language today would be called a demon to keep him from becoming arrogant. This obviously did not work, because he continued to boast until his death. This is why Paul taught that not only does a person not have to get rid of sin to be saved it is patently impossible for anyone to become free from sin-which is why God must save you IN (in spite of) your sin.

Don't get angry with me, this is EXACTLY what he said.