Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[wayfinder]

Richard, show me where, in the Bible, God says how many days are in a month and I will accept what you say, but if you are unable to do this then you are the one who is making stuff up.

[doug yowell]

Richard, show me where, in the Bible, God says how many days are in a month and I will accept what you say, but if you are unable to do this then you are the one who is making stuff up.

Uh,divide 1260 by 30 and...or multiply 42 by 30 and...ta da! What a coincidence!

[Johnnboy]

The 2300 literal days began with the “going forth of a commandment to restore and build Jerusalem” on June 27, 1980, and ended on the Day of Atonement, October 13, 1986, exactly 2300 days later. The year, 1986, was a 7th Sabbatical year, the year preceding the Historical Biblical Jubilee year, when all four of the “shadow” Sabbaths within the fall feasts, occurred on 7th day Sabbaths.

In perfect alignment with this fulfillment of the 2300 days, there was a 1260 literal-day period that occurred just after the “deadly wound”. The “deadly wound” refers to the gun shot wounds that both U. S. President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II received in 1981. The Scripture gives a sequence of the “deadly wound” being healed and, after this, all the world wondering after the beast, and power given to him to continue 42 months (1260 days). (Revelation 13)

On Sunday, April 22, 1984, the year of the Vatican Jubilee, “Pope John Paul II closed the Holy Door of St. Peter's Basilica. That gesture ended the extra-ordinary Holy Year of Redemption.---Kevin Castillo -A P Nework News—Rome”.

The following is a quote from the Apostolic Letter of Pope John Paul II, given in Rome at St. Peter's on Good Friday, April 20, 1984, two days before he officially ended the Holy Year of Redemption (Vatican Jubilee year).

“As the Jubilee Year of Redemption draws to a close, my thoughts go out to that special land which is located in that place where Europe, Asia and Africa meet and in which the Redemption of the human race was accomplished 'once and for all' ”. L'Osservatore Roman, April 30, 1984, Weekly Edition.

This “extra-ordinary Holy Year” was the year of the Vatican Jubilee. This same year, 1984, was heralded as the Jubilee, in an article, called, “The Year of the Lord's favor”, in the January 5, 1984, Adventist Review, (See coverpage and page 11). It stated: “Let the trumpet sound: bells ring out for this new year—a year of jubilee.” Ironically, the article actually mentions the occurrence of the Messiah proclaiming the Jubilee on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year in the synagogue at Nazareth when He read the Jubilee of Isaiah 61 and, then, announced, “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” Luke 4:21.

Amazingly, there was exactly 42 months, 1260 literal days from April 22, 1984, the end of the Vatican Jubilee, until the true historical Biblical Jubilee on the Day of Atonement, October 3, 1987!

This spectacular fulfillment should be thoroughly investigated, studied and understood, as it gives us lessons that we need to understand in order to recognize the future main fulfillment of these grand prophecies.

[wayfinder]

Doug, please show your math formula in the Bible i.e. God spoke and said: there are 30 days in each month, you will not find it written anywhere. God created the moon on the fourth day of creation to count the months i.e. from one new moon to the next.

Psalms 81:3 NAS

Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the full moon, on our feast day

Isaiah 66:23 NAS

"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

[Guest]

The key that unlocks the time prophecies is the principle given in Ezekiel 4:6 and Numbers 14:34.

These verses reveal to us that one day in prophecy equals one literal year. For this reason all time prophecies must be first broken down into days. Using this Bible "key," time prophecies work out perfectly and become easy to understand.

A month in Bible reckoning contains 30 days. A year contains 360 days. This is the formula for understanding all prophetic time.

Using this method of reckoning it can be shown that Jesus' ministry came right on time, when the prophecy said it would. In the middle of the prophetic week.

If you don't believe this, then you can't even prove that Jesus is the real Messiah. You therefore don't have the right to say you believe in Jesus. Because you have nothing real to base it on.

[doug yowell]

Doug, please show your math formula in the Bible i.e. God spoke and said: there are 30 days in each month, you will not find it written anywhere. God created the moon on the fourth day of creation to count the months i.e. from one new moon to the next.

Psalms 81:3 NAS

Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the full moon, on our feast day

Isaiah 66:23 NAS

"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

I'm assuming that since there is no exact word for word thus says the Lord on this that God expects us to figure it out based upon what we have to go on. Since I'm not aware of any Divinely inspired formula that contradicts a historically held 30 day Jewish monthly cycle,I feel pretty confident that a secret revelation of another formula to the contrary is unnecessary.Using the 30 day cycle to determine the year of Christ's birth,His death, and Israel's demise worked pretty well so I'm taking that to be a thumbs up from the Lord. Ya got a clearer "God said" to offer?

[Guest]

Amen Doug! My point exactly. You just said it better.

[Dr. Rich]

Wayfinder, My advice is to not argue with someone who is ignorant because they want to stay that way (no, I am not calling anyone here that name right now) because they will bring you down to their level and beat you with their knowledge. Besides, it appears that no one wants to learn anything--do they?

Here is the thing: IF God was a God of order, then He would have made His 'new moons' go evenly into a year. So, I guess He messed up--or perhaps had a good reason to do what He did in order for those with special insight could deduct the exact time for events to happen. But hey, since we hear from almost everyone that NO ONE can know the time for these events, then God must have made a BIG mistake for saying what He did in Matthew 24:48-51. Shame on Him! This poor guy was cut in pieces and assigned a place with the hypocrites. How come? After all, if no one is to know, then why put the blame on this guy?

[Guest]

Wayfinder, My advice is to not argue with someone who is ignorant

Wayfinder, (and you) have just been shown why making your own rules as you go, doesn't work where Bible prophecy is concerned. I would think you would want to either pay attention, or show a different way to prove that Jesus was the Messiah.

But all you can do is call people ignorant? That's it? How mature.

[Guest]

Matthew 24:48-51 doesn't say one word about people with special insight knowing more than than the rest about the timing of events. Is that really what you see when you read that?

What do you see when you read this?

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

[Dr. Rich]

In Matt. 24:48-51 I see a poor guy who did not know when Jesus was going to come and because he didnt' was kept out of heaven.

Matt. 24:36 is followed up with Revelation 1:1-3 where God (who knew the time) gave this information to His Son Jesus, who gave it to John by the way of a messenger from Heaven, in order for John to write the TIME down for the bondservants living in the last generation to understand too.

(Why the last generation? Read Rev/ 22:18-19. Plagues only will poured out on the wicked living during the time of trouble. (Hint, hint)

[Musicman1228]

Matthew 24:48-51 doesn't say one word about people with special insight knowing more than than the rest about the timing of events. Is that really what you see when you read that?

What do you see when you read this?

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Richard,

Does the Matt. 24:36 text say that no one will ever know? Or does it simply say that only the Father knows when He will send His Son back to earth?

Also note, that the word translated from Greek as "knows" can also mean "to make known". That would make the text read as follows:

"But of that day and hour NO ONE MAKES KNOWN, no, not the angels of heaven or the Son, but the Father only."

Read this way this changes the meaning somewhat from 'no one will ever know' to 'only the Father makes known the day and the hour'.

Couple that with Rev. 1:1-3 where the Father reveals something to His Son that His Son did not previously know, and then the Son gives this information to His angel, who gave it to John, who gives it to his bondservants through the prophecies in the book that John wrote - Revelation.

To me this says that the bondservants WILL KNOW at what time Jesus will return. That is exciting.

[John317]

Does the Matt. 24:36 text say that no one will ever know? Or does it simply say that only the Father knows when He will send His Son back to earth?

Also note, that the word translated from Greek as "knows" can also mean "to make known". That would make the text read as follows:

"But of that day and hour NO ONE MAKES KNOWN, no, not the angels of heaven or the Son, but the Father only."

Do you have a reference for this?

I'm aware of some people saying this, but could you give me an instance of where that word in that particular form is translated as "make known"?

Do you know why it could mean "to make known"?

Finally, do you know of a good translation (or any translation for that matter) that translates it that way?

By the way, James White wrote that this word can be translated "to make known," but he wasn't a Greek scholar and was going by what he someone else told him. I would actually like to be able to prove James White correct on this.

I have the greatest respect and admiration for James White but he wasn't right in everything he said, of course. And Ellen White never wrote anything indicating she agreed with him on the meaning of that word.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Does the Matt. 24:36 text say that no one will ever know? Or does it simply say that only the Father knows when He will send His Son back to earth?

Also note, that the word translated from Greek as "knows" can also mean "to make known". That would make the text read as follows:

"But of that day and hour NO ONE MAKES KNOWN, no, not the angels of heaven or the Son, but the Father only."

Do you have a reference for this?

I'm aware of some people saying this, but could you give me an instance of where that word in that particular form is translated as "make known"?

Do you know why it could mean "to make known"?

Finally, do you know of a good translation (or any translation for that matter) that translates it that way?

By the way, James White wrote that this word can be translated "to make known," but he wasn't a Greek scholar and was going by what he someone else told him. I would actually like to be able to prove James White correct on this.

I have the greatest respect and admiration for James White but he wasn't right in everything he said, of course. And Ellen White never wrote anything indicating she agreed with him on the meaning of that word.

James White wrote about this in a little book titled "Matthew 24". In it he cites a Greek scholar that through usage and syntax indicated that the word 'could be' translated that way. It doesn't really matter, though, as the word 'knows' as it is used indicates that there was something the Father knew that NO ONE else knew, not even His Son.

So now, when you look at Rev. 1:1-3 from that perspective it is apparent that God gave Jesus a revelation.

What is a revelation? Something that one didn't know before.

What was the only thing that Jesus said that He didn't know while He was here on earth? The day and the hour of His coming.

Who DID know this information? The Father.

To whom did the Father give this information? His Son, Jesus.

To whom did Jesus give this information that He received from His Father? His Angel.

To whom did the Angel give this information? John, a disciple and bondservant of Jesus.

To whom was John instructed to give this information? The Bondservants of Jesus Christ who would be alive during the time of the end.

What did the revelation concern? WHEN Jesus would return to earth.

Here we see a concrete and solid 'chain of evidence' that is unbroken from the Father to the Bondservants. This give this information great credibility, and says that the bondservants WILL KNOW when Jesus is to come back.

This seems pretty clear to me. I hope it is clear to you.

[Guest]

Pretty clear alright. Clearly a giant leap of faith in your own speculation. Verses 1-3 don't say anything about revealing WHEN. It says it's a revelation of the things that will shortly come to pass. Not WHEN they will come to pass.

The only info it gives about time, is the word "shortly". Which to you I guess means the day and the hour.

MM, I've noticed that in just about all your beliefs, you have to read in something that isn't there in order to see it. I don't think that's a good way to study the Bible.

[Guest]

Also, Jesus didn't say: No man knows the day or the hour, but they will in 2010. He just said no man knows, emphatically, and left it at that.

[Johnnboy]

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

This text is extremely clear.

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;"

This text is also very clear, but the next text states that some people have an advantage.

1 Thessalonians 5:4, 5 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day:" Emphasis mine

[Dr. Rich]

Can you tell me who it is that the 7 last plagues will be poured out on? Please Richard? (hint) Do they get poured out on the dead?

Revelation is truely a puzzel and it does take a clear head to find all of the clues. Hmmm? "for time is near" (verse 3 of the 1st chapter)

Now read Rev. 3:7-13. Who is this group of people and isn't that

'test' the time of trouble? Does not this happen to the last generation?

Rev. 22:20 "Yes, I am coming quickly." Was this a lie? NO!

Here is the BIG problem with all of those leaders in the Adventist church who say they know all about Revelation. They say that Revelation was writtin in "present tense"--and you know what--they are rigt. Problem is, the words are written as present tense to a future time--the time of the last generation living! The above verses prove this to me.

[Johnnboy]

If everyone could just lay aside all differing and prejudice of each other's opinions, God could teach us just how to connect the points of truth in the next few quotations.

First, be very assured that these quotations will not help you know the day and the hour of the second coming.

Please note again when the typical Jubilee trumpet was blown showing that the great year of release had come. It was blown on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year in Israel.

"After "seven sabbaths of years," "seven times seven years," came that great year of release--the jubilee. "Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound . . . throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family." Leviticus 25:9, 10.

"On the tenth day of the seventh month, in the Day of Atonement," the trumpet of the jubilee was sounded." PP 533.

The following statement is the inspired evidence for the antitypical Jubilee. Remember this is not the second coming.

"And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus' coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people, He spoke one sentence, and then paused, while the words were rolling through the earth. The Israel of God stood with their eyes fixed upward, listening to the words as they came from the mouth of Jehovah, and rolled through the earth like peals of loudest thunder. It was awfully solemn. And at the end of every sentence the saints shouted, "Glory! Alleluia!"...

Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God." EW 34,35

If you have connected these statements, you will see that on some future Day of Atonement of a Biblical Jubilee year, the Father will tell us the day and the hour of the second coming.

[Dr. Rich]

Page 73 of James White's book called "Matthew 24" states: "An Old English Version of the passage reads, But that day and hour no man maketh known, neither the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, bu the the Father. This is the correct reading, according to several of the ablest critics of the age. The word 'known' is used in the same sense here that it is by Paul in 1Cor.2:2: "For I determined not to know [make known] anything among you, save Jesus Christ and him crucified." Men will not make known the day and hour, angels will not make it known, neither will the Son; but the Father will make it known."

Then James White names those he relied upon for this understanding. They were "Campbell", "Macknight", "Albert Barnes", and then just says "many others".

I might add, that James White (among others) firmly believed that the Adventists were the same as the "Ten Bride's Maids" of Matthew 25:1-13.

[Musicman1228]

Thanks, Johnnboy, for your salient comments.

I find it very revealing (there is that word again) that if the Faithful and Wise bondservant becomes wicked (he won't) the Master will come on a day and hour that will surprise him. BUT IF that bondservant is faithful and wise he WILL NOT be surprised by the Master's coming as a Thief.

Why would the Master punish this bondservant for not knowing something that could never be known? That seem a bit harsh to me. The only way for God to be able to legitimately punish this servant if he turns wicked is if that servant KNEW the time of the coming of the Master and ignored it. And that is exactly what this prophecy says.

Re-read Matt. 24:42-51 and let me know your thoughts.

[phkrause]

Thanks, Johnnboy, for your salient comments.

I find it very revealing (there is that word again) that if the Faithful and Wise bondservant becomes wicked (he won't) the Master will come on a day and hour that will surprise him. BUT IF that bondservant is faithful and wise he WILL NOT be surprised by the Master's coming as a Thief.

I can agree with that statement, Jesus tells us to be watchful and ready all the time.

[phkrause]

Why would the Master punish this bondservant for not knowing something that could never be known? That seem a bit harsh to me. The only way for God to be able to legitimately punish this servant if he turns wicked is if that servant KNEW the time of the coming of the Master and ignored it. And that is exactly what this prophecy says.

I do not agree with this statement. Jesus tells us himself that even he doesn't know the hour/time, only the Father knows.

[Johnnboy]

Dr. Rich,

I think that is a good interpretation, "maketh known", as the Father is the one that makes the "day and the hour known" at the commencement of the antitypical Jubilee. (See Early Writings 34, 35)

[Dr. Rich]

Then you don't believe what Jesus said in Rev. 1:1? I guess not.

Now I see you are choosing to pick what you want from the bible and then choosing not to read and agree with Revelation. That's really interesting? Is there a good reason for this?