Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[Musicman1228]

For a prophecy to be fulfilled ALL of the elements of the prophecy MUST be fulfilled completely (no partial fulfillments) and in the order in which they are given. If any element is 'out of order' then the prophecy has not been fulfilled, even if all of the elements appear to have been fulfilled.

The timing of God's festival year can seem complex, but since it was understood by ancient Israel then we also should be able to come to an understanding of it as well.

There is a difference between the beginning of the year and the beginning of the festival year, and it is here where I see the differences in interpretation.

God's year starts ON the Spring Equinox, which is always when the Sun transitions from ascending to it's highest point in the Summer sky and begins it's descent toward the Winter Solstice. This date is on March 22-23 on the Julian calendar. But this is not the start of the Festival year, which always begins with the Passover, which occurs on the 14th day on or after the First New Moon ON or FOLLOWING the Spring Equinox.

The time differential between the Spring Equinox and the First New Moon is called an 'inter-corollary' month that can be as long as 27 days (which would begin on the last new moon of the previous year).

So, from the standpoint of the precession of the earth around the sun, and the moon around the earth the time of the Passover (the First Feast) was ALWAYS on a full moon.

For more information on this I have supplied a link to the US Naval Observatory, Spring Phenomena for years 25 BCE to 38 CE:

http://web.me.com/spiritoftruth/STM/Must_Read/Entries/2008/3/21_U.S._Naval_Observatory_Data.html.

[Guest]

For a prophecy to be fulfilled ALL of the elements of the prophecy MUST be fulfilled completely (no partial fulfillments) and in the order in which they are given.

So who decided this? Where can I find this rule in the Bible?

[Johnnboy]

For a prophecy to be fulfilled ALL of the elements of the prophecy MUST be fulfilled completely (no partial fulfillments) and in the order in which they are given. If any element is 'out of order' then the prophecy has not been fulfilled' date=' even if all of the elements appear to have been fulfilled. quote']

Musicman1228

Look back at my post on page 79 of this thread, you will find Biblical evidence that the above statement is not supported in the Scriptures. The Messiah said that John the Baptist was Elijah. John was beheaded; Elijah went to heaven in a fiery chariot. And yet Elijah is to come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. See Malachi 4. Would this be multiple fulfillments, or partial fulfillments? What do you think? The Biblical evidence is too powerful to deny, unless one contradicts the Word itself.

[Musicman1228]

If you can't make Sabbath school or church today I invite you to join me on my internet radio program at 10 AM Pacific time for a hard hitting Bible study on Revelation with my friend Rick Sterling. I think you will enjoy hearing his unique approach to prophecy.

Here is the link: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/spiritoftruth

[Musicman1228]

Johnnboy,

If you examine what Jesus said on the mount of Transfiguration carefully you will see that Jesus starts His teaching in answer to the disciples question about Elijah in the present, then moves to the future, and then to the past. Here is what Jesus said:

And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come [present], and he will restore all things [future]. But I tell you that Elijah has already come [past], and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased.

Matt. 17:10-12.

Every time salvation and restoration have occurred for the Kingdom of Heaven an Elijah type has appeared to prepare the way of the the Lord. Yes, John the Baptist WAS the Elijah type for the Messiah on the 'Life Road' prophetic line, in which Jesus would not have been crucified, but would have been anointed as King over Israel and would have eventually ruled from the temple in Jerusalem for 1000 years. This is what everyone in Israel including John the Baptist himself believed would happen, because the Priesthood, including John's father, taught that this is the only prophetic line that was certain for Israel. But it wasn't the only possibility, and this is what Jesus is telling His disciples on the mount of Transfiguration.

Jesus told John, James and Peter that this Elijah type 'could have' been John the Baptist, but wasn't. Yet there would come another Elijah type in the future that would prepare the way of the Lord, and fulfill the prophecy about the Elijah type in doing this. From our perspective today we can see exactly who this Elijah type will be, and that is the Faithful and Wise Bondservant who prepares his fellow bondservants for service to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 24:42-51), and who the Master puts in charge of ALL of God's possessions as a reward for preparing the way of the Lord.

So, yes, the Elijah prophecy WILL be fulfilled, but in an unexpected way to those who can only see prophecy in one way.

[Johnnboy]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

For a prophecy to be fulfilled ALL of the elements of the prophecy MUST be fulfilled completely (no partial fulfillments) and in the order in which they are given. If any element is 'out of order' then the prophecy has not been fulfilled, even if all of the elements appear to have been fulfilled.

Johnnboy,

If you examine what Jesus said on the mount of Transfiguration carefully you will see that Jesus starts His teaching in answer to the disciples question about Elijah in the present, then moves to the future, and then to the past. Here is what Jesus said:

And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come [present], and he will restore all things [future]. But I tell you that Elijah has already come [past], and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased.

Matt. 17:10-12.

Every time salvation and restoration have occurred for the Kingdom of Heaven an Elijah type has appeared to prepare the way of the the Lord. Yes, John the Baptist WAS the Elijah type for the Messiah on the 'Life Road' prophetic line, in which Jesus would not have been crucified, but would have been anointed as King over Israel and would have eventually ruled from the temple in Jerusalem for 1000 years. This is what everyone in Israel including John the Baptist himself believed would happen, because the Priesthood, including John's father, taught that this is the only prophetic line that was certain for Israel. But it wasn't the only possibility, and this is what Jesus is telling His disciples on the mount of Transfiguration.

Jesus told John, James and Peter that this Elijah type 'could have' been John the Baptist, but wasn't. Yet there would come another Elijah type in the future that would prepare the way of the Lord, and fulfill the prophecy about the Elijah type in doing this. From our perspective today we can see exactly who this Elijah type will be, and that is the Faithful and Wise Bondservant who prepares his fellow bondservants for service to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 24:42-51), and who the Master puts in charge of ALL of God's possessions as a reward for preparing the way of the Lord.

So, yes, the Elijah prophecy WILL be fulfilled, but in an unexpected way to those who can only see prophecy in one way.

Are you saying that the prophecy of Elijah has a fulfillment which we might call a “forerunner”, and that the main final fulfillment is at the end of time? If so, then, we agree on this point.

Thank you for the invitation to your radio program. But I was involved elsewhere.

[Dr. Rich]

We then do agree. Since the Sabbath School class MM gave the site for is recorded and kept on file, anyone can go to the site and download or listen to any study over the last two years. The last three months studies have been awesome.

[Musicman1228]

Johnnboy,

The term 'forerunner' is apt but doesn't quite make my point. God knows the end from the beginning, and all possibilities in between. 'Forerunner' to me implies that God is testing to see which option would work out better. But if God indeed does view the panoply of the all of the possible histories of the world as a single entity, AND He knows which line of history (past, present and future) will be the one that will actually occur then God has no need to test the waters (so to speak) to see which one will occur.

That being said, what Jesus showed His 'special' disciples at the Transfiguration and us through their testimony is that God takes all elements into consideration when He gives us prophecy that will aid us in understanding not only what is about to happen but what we must do to be prepared for that 'happening'.

Elijah the prophet did actually exist and was sent by God to prepare the way of the Lord to Israel in getting them back on the time line God needed for them to be on to accomplish righteousness in Israel so that God Himself could come and dwell with them. Israel refuse the task and opportunity, whereby God sent them into Babylonian captivity.

During the last week of years of the 490 year prophecy in Dan. 9:24 God sent ANOTHER 'Elijah' type in the person of John the Baptist, again for the purpose of 'preparing the way of the Lord', so that when the Messiah, Jesus Christ, made His appearance Israel would be receptive to the message of the Messiah about how Israel could accomplish the assignment of becoming the righteous Kingdom God originally set them up to be at Sinai. Unfortunately, again Israel not only rejected the message but this time also rejected the Messenger/Messiah, and put Him on the cross.

God MUST have a righteous Kingdom on earth in order to lead the world to the truth about salvation and restoration. Just before the end God will set up another Kingdom (Dan.2:44-45), and will again send an 'Elijah' type to 'prepare the way of the Lord'. This 'Elijah' is seen in Matt. 24:42-51 as the Faithful and Wise Bondservant, who will be teaching his fellow bondservants of Jesus Christ the truth about salvation and restoration in order to prepare them for service. This prophecy is NOT OPTIONAL; there is no either/or condition associated with this prophecy EXCEPT that the Faithful and Wise Bondservant can reject the assignment, whereby he would become wicked and would be cast into outer darkness. This will not happen, however, because there is no provision in this or any other end time prophecy for an alternate Bondservant to appear.

'Elijah' WILL come, and he will restore ALL things. What things? All of the truths that have been here-to-fore unknown, neglected, rejected, or forgotten by those to whom God sent him. To whom did God give Truth concerning salvation, restoration, and the Covenant at the end of the 2300 Evenings and Mornings prophecy in Dan. 9:24? Who is the Kingdom that is the rock cut out without hands in Dan. 2:44-45? Who is this Kingdom of Heaven that went out to meet the Bridegroom because of the prophecy in Dan. 9:24, and because the Bridegroom delayed His coming they all went to sleep out on the road? It is the same Kingdom out of which God will raise the FINAL 'Elijah' type, who will prepare the Bondservants of our God (the 144,000) for service to the Kingdom of Heaven. This FINAL 'Elijah' cannot be EGW because she is dead and will not be alive during the final events of earths history. It will be an actual human being that God will train not through direct intervention (there is no prophetic evidence that this will occur) but through the guidance of the Holy Spirit in this person's life to lead him/her to an understanding of truth that is different than what is already established and believed. Why? Because when the message that the Faithful and Wise Bondservant is given to the Kingdom of Heaven (midnight cry) it causes a split, a shaking, in this Kingdom such that 5 of the Bridesmaid are identified as Wise and 5 as Foolish. If this Kingdom already had all of the truth and needed nothing else then why would there come a shaking because of ANY new or different truth?

[Johnnboy]

There can be no question that the Spirit of Prophecy through Ellen G. White was not the fulfillment of the Elijah that was to come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. She, herself, places this fulfillment in the future.

In Revelation more details are given of the time of the fulfillment, as well as, conditions during the fulfillment.

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days,...These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy...” Revelation 11:3, 6.

The three and one half years of Elijah's ministry parallels the last three and one half years of time in which there will be no dew or rain.

No matter what we think about prophecy, the Messiah's words are so very clear.

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” Matthew 11:13-15.

I just don't believe that we can have it stated plainer than that. Prophecies have multiple fulfillments. The point is—do we have ears to hear?

“That which hath been is now, and that which is to be hath already been, and God requireth that which is past.” Ecclesiastes 3:15.

The parable of the 10 virgins is another case of repeated fulfillments, during the 1840-1844 movement and at the end of time.

“This parable has been and will be fulfilled to the very letter, for it has a special application to this time,...This represents the condition of the Church.” Review and Herald August 19, 1890.

It is the message of judgment of the first angel of Revelation that points to the end of the 2300 days; this sobering message arouses the 10 virgins. This message has been proclaimed pointing to the Day of Atonement at the end of the 2300 days, and it will go with power again, in the future pointing to another Day of Atonement for the judgment, at the end of another literal fulfillment of the 2300 days.

The Spirit of Prophecy emphasizes the work of the Messiah in cleansing the temple TWICE when He was on earth, at the beginning of His ministry and at the close. Then she parallels these two cleansings with 1844, and again, at the end of time, when the sanctuary IS cleansed.

“ When Jesus began his public ministry, he cleansed the temple from its sacrilegious profanation. Among the last acts of his ministry was the second cleansing of the temple. So in the last work for the warning of the world, two distinct calls are made to the churches. The second angel's message is, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." And in the loud cry of the third angel's message a voice is heard from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." RH, December 6, 1892

[Musicman1228]

Johnnboy said, "I just don't believe that we can have it stated plainer than that. Prophecies have multiple fulfillments."

It is my understanding that prophecies have multiple POSSIBLE fulfillments, but only one of them will actually happen. This is because God gives each generation to which He has given prophecy the opportunity to do or not do what is required to fulfill the prophecy the way God desires. But just because God desires that a prophecy be fulfilled in a way that glorifies Him does not mean it will come to pass. Note that God gave Ancient Israel two chances at becoming His kingdom and twice they made the choice to NOT fulfill either of those prophecies in the way God desired.

Johnnboy said, "The parable of the 10 virgins is another case of repeated fulfillments, during the 1840-1844 movement and at the end of time."

Here again, I see the 10 Bridesmaids going out on the road to wait for the Bridegroom and when He delayed His coming they ALL went to sleep as being the first part of the fulfillment of the entire prophecy in Matt. 25:1-13. The final part has not yet taken place; and until it does the prophecy will not be fulfilled. Rather than use the term 'partial fulfillment' I prefer the term 'incomplete fulfillment'.

The other factor that I see when studying any prophecy is that there are listed certain elements within these prophecies that must be fulfilled IN THE LISTED ORDER for the prophecy to be completely fulfilled. Also, there are many prophecies that will never be fulfilled because the time for their fulfillment has past. An example of this would be the end time prophecies for literal Israel in Isaiah and Ezekiel.

[Johnnboy]

You might be correct on when the Hebrew's year started, but God's year started on the Spring Equinox and ended the day before the Spring Equinox. It was the Passover that was 15 days after the first new moon after the Spring Equinox that caused the slight problem.

The first day of the first Hebrew month (beginning on the new moon after the spring equinox) was the first day of the first month given to Moses by God. This was God's calendar, and this was the first day of God's year.

Exodus 12:2 “This month [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you.”

God was instructing Moses in regard to His calendar and to the time of the observance of the Passover when Israel was preparing to leave Egypt.

The first new moon of spring which is after the spring equinox has always been the beginning of the year in God's calendar.

Man, aided by Satan, has made many changes to God's calendar.

[Dr. Rich]

God's year never changed. Man changed Man's year. God's month never changed. Man changed Mand's month.

God's year always starts on the spring equinox. God's month always starts at the new moon, (dark of the moon) If you mess this up then you will not be able to know when Jesus is going to come as the template God gave to us a long time ago must be followed exactly right.

[Johnnboy]

God's year never changed. Man changed Man's year. God's month never changed. Man changed Mand's month.

God's year always starts on the spring equinox. God's month always starts at the new moon, (dark of the moon) If you mess this up then you will not be able to know when Jesus is going to come as the template God gave to us a long time ago must be followed exactly right.

The point is true that God's year and God's month never changes. In Genesis 1:14, God created the sun and the moon for the purpose of marking time—seasons, days and years, and for showing signs.

To determine which is God's month, or God's year, we must have inspired evidence from the Holy Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Otherwise it is only human conjecture and cannot be trusted as truth.

In Exodus 12:2 when God said to Moses that this shall be the beginning of months, He did not mean the second month or the seventh month or the tenth month. He said, “It shall be the first month of the year to you.” There can be no doubt which month He was meaning. Therefore, the first day of this first month is the beginning of God's year. The day on which the new moon occurs is the first day of this first month. Every new moon thereafter, begins a new month, God's month.

The reason that this day, the first day of the month, is AFTER the spring equinox is that it is only then that there is ripe barley for the Wave Sheaf offering on the 16th day of the first month, which was the requirement for the Wave Sheaf offering.

The theory that the spring equinox is the beginning of God's year originated from uninspired commentaries.

[Guest]

Amen

[wayfinder]

Exodus 34:22 NAS

"You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.

"The turn of the year" was when the daylight part of the day was longer than the dark part of the day. It was at this time that the kings would go to war, because they would have more light during the day to fight their battles.

1 Kings 20:22 NAS

Then the prophet came near to the king of Israel and said to him, "Go, strengthen yourself and observe and see what you have to do ; for at the turn of the year the king of Aram will come up against you."

It is true that the first month of the festival year starts with the first new moon on or after the spring equinox. The year that God established works differently than our Gregorian calendar. The Gregorian calendar always starts with the first day of January and runs for 12 consecutive months, these months have no relationship with the moon at all, they are 30 or 31 days with one being 28/29 in leap year. There was an intercalary month when the new moon did not fall on the spring equinox. In 1844 the tenth day of the seventh month fell on the Gregorian calander date of October 22nd.

The term "first month of the year" does not imply that it is the first day of the year. The context in which God was instructing Moses was the time to celebrate the feasts, which were calculated only by the moon and day not by the year. The year operated independantly of the months.

[Johnnboy]

Exodus 34:22 NAS

"You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.

"The turn of the year" was when the daylight part of the day was longer than the dark part of the day. It was at this time that the kings would go to war, because they would have more light during the day to fight their battles.

1 Kings 20:22 NAS

Then the prophet came near to the king of Israel and said to him, "Go, strengthen yourself and observe and see what you have to do ; for at the turn of the year the king of Aram will come up against you."

It is true that the first month of the festival year starts with the first new moon on or after the spring equinox. The year that God established works differently than our Gregorian calendar. The Gregorian calendar always starts with the first day of January and runs for 12 consecutive months, these months have no relationship with the moon at all, they are 30 or 31 days with one being 28/29 in leap year. There was an intercalary month when the new moon did not fall on the spring equinox. In 1844 the tenth day of the seventh month fell on the Gregorian calander date of October 22nd.

The term "first month of the year" does not imply that it is the first day of the year. The context in which God was instructing Moses was the time to celebrate the feasts, which were calculated only by the moon and day not by the year. The year operated independantly of the months.

The verses from Scripture that you posted, must be coupled with other verses, for one to understand the correct meaning. Scripture always interprets Scripture. There is no need for human conjecture in understanding the meaning, when the Bible interprets itself so clearly.

The version of the Bible that you used, has the phrase, “the turn of the year.” in the verses mentioned. In the King James Version of the Bible the verse is: “And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.” In context, Exodus 34:22 is giving the attendance requirements for the annual feast days. The following verse, more specifically, states, “Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.” Exodus 34:23.

In Deuteronomy 16:16, the complete requirements of attendance at the annual festivals is given.

“Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles:”

Deuteronomy 16:13 states, “Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:”

Now we have no doubt what the phrase, “the turn of the year”, or the phrase, “at the year's end” mean.

It shows that this is after the harvest, after the gathering of the corn and wine. The daylight portion of the day would be decreasing every day as the harvest is over. Really, there would be less daylight every day for your kings to fight.

The phrase, “at the year's end” would be referring to the last month of the sacred year, as the Feast of Tabernacles was the final festival given by God to Moses in the annual observances. This last month was the 7th month. “The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time,...” AA 585. Therefore, there was immense meaning to there being only 7 months in which all of the feast days occurred.

God created 7 days in the week; He scheduled 7 “lunar” weeks to the day before the Day of Pentecost; there were 7 “lunar” Sabbaths in those 7 weeks; He scheduled 7 months in the sacred year; He scheduled 7 years in a Sabbatical cycle with the 7th year being the Sabbath year; He scheduled 7 x 7 Sabbath years to equal 49 years, and then came the great year of release, the 50th year, which was the year that the entire prophetic system was completed; He has scheduled 7 millenniums, as 2 Peter 3:8 states, … “that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” The 7th millennium is the Sabbath millennium, the great Sabbath rest for the earth.

Your statement, wayfinder, “There was an intercalary month when the new moon did not fall on the spring equinox.”

Actually, the new moon rarely fell on the spring equinox, and the intercalary month had no connection to the new moon falling on the spring equinox.

In the concordance of my King James Version of the Bible, the following statement is given under the heading, “Calendar”.

“The Jewish calendar contains a 13th month, Veadar, introduced 7 times in every 19 years, to render the average length of the year nearly correct, and keep the seasons in their proper months.” Dictionary Concordance, p. 24.

Every one of God's years in the 7 years of the Sabbatical cycle of years, began just as God told Moses in Exodus 12:2 “This month [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you.” I repeat, therefore, the first day of this first month which would be the day of the new moon, would be the first day of the year.

[Dr. Rich]

Wow, just another good reason why the KJV is not a reliable version to read. The KJV has lots of changes that were not correct, like "thou shall not kill", when the truth is "you shall not commit murder". Remember, the king who wanted his own version tweaked it to fit his understanding and it was NOT God that did it. BTW, This king was a wicked king too.

[John317]

The KJV has lots of changes that were not correct, like "thou shall not kill", when the truth is "you shall not commit murder".

[Guest]

Amen John! First they throw out Paul and Ellen White. Now they want to throw out the KJV. Anything that doesn't coincide with what they have already decided to believe, has to go.

[Dr. Rich]

Richard, why is it you can't resist the temptation to get personal? Hmmm? Is it because I am such a threat to you?

As for the wicked King James, do your own research and do NOT rely upon my words. Prove to me that James was NOT wicked and wanted his own bible so that he could get a divorce and do other detestable things.

[Guest]

Richard, why is it you can't resist the temptation to get personal? Hmmm? Is it because I am such a threat to you?

As for the wicked King James, do your own research and do NOT rely upon my words. Prove to me that James was NOT wicked and wanted his own bible so that he could get a divorce and do other detestable things.

You are the one making the claim! So you are the one who needs to prove. Prove to me that this is what actually took place. That he had the Bible written up the way HE wanted it to read. If you had proof of that, you would have already presented it. Instead you try the old: "When did you stop beating your wife" routine. LOL

And why is it that you and MM insist on taking my pointing out your error, personal? It's not personal at all. I would want people to see it for what it is, no matter who said it.

[Johnnboy]

Wow, just another good reason why the KJV is not a reliable version to read. The KJV has lots of changes that were not correct, like "thou shall not kill", when the truth is "you shall not commit murder". Remember, the king who wanted his own version tweaked it to fit his understanding and it was NOT God that did it. BTW, This king was a wicked king too.

Actually, the King James' Version of the Bible was almost entirely copied from the Bishops' Bible, which was used in the churches of England, and the King James' Version was almost identical to the 1560 edition of the Geneva Bible, which it was intended to replace.

The main reason that King James ordered a new translation of the Bible is that he did not approve of the addition of all the footnotes, which composed almost a third of the Geneva Bible.

“There was, and is, much to admire about the King James Version. Many of the scholars who worked on the translation were among the finest in Europe. The omission of marginal notes allowed the reader to concentrate on the biblical text itself. The translators gave special attention to the English thus assuring that the Bible read well when used in church services. Although printed nearly four hundred years ago, the English still reads with a diction and stateliness that has not been equaled. While the King James Version contains some obsolete words, when read aloud by a skilled reader, its beauty of expression is unequaled. The beauty of language was due to the work of William Tyndale. Eighty-five percent of the words in the New Testament portion of the King James Bible were the work of William Tyndale.” by Dr. Herbert Samworth, from the site, SOLA SCRIPTURA

“Tyndale's was the first English translation to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, and the first to take advantage of the new medium of print, which allowed for its wide distribution. This was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of both the Catholic church and the English church and state. Tyndale also wrote, in 1530, The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it contravened scriptural law.

In 1535, Tyndale was arrested by church authorities and jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde outside Brussels for over a year. He was tried for heresy, strangled and burnt at the stake. The Tyndale Bible, as it was known, continued to play a key role in spreading Reformation ideas across Europe.

The fifty-four independent scholars who revised extant English bibles, drew significantly on Tyndale's translations to create the King James Version (or final "Authorised Version") of 1611 (still in mainstream use today). One estimation suggests the King James New Testament is 83.7 % Tyndale's and the Old Testament 75.7%.” Abstract of John Nielsen and Royal Skousen text in REFORMATION Vol. 3 (1998)

“Although fifty-four men were nominated, only forty-seven were known to have taken part in the work of translation. The translators were organized into six groups, and met respectively at Westminster, Cambridge, and Oxford. Ten at Westminster were assigned Genesis through 2 Kings; seven had Romans through Jude. At Cambridge, eight worked on 1 Chronicles through Ecclesiastes, while seven others handled the Apocrypha. Oxford employed seven to translate Isaiah through Malachi; eight occupied themselves with the Gospels, Acts, and Revelation.” by Dr. Laurence M. Vance

[Dr. Rich]

This thread is not about versions of the bible, do your own research. The KJV was not the first bible in English so that was NOT the reason the king had it written. Now, was the king a man of God? Go check it out yourself. Therefore, the KJV was not authorized by God, but by the King--and it was a political move on his part. (Have people already forgotten the church of England and why the United States Constitution forbids the government to get involved or to establish a religion?)

[Guest]

Amen JOHNNBOY, good info there. Thanks!

The king didn't do the translating Rich. The fact that the king may or may not have been evil, has nothing to do with whether God was with the translators or not.

I told you to bring proof, and all you have is more empty words that mean nothing.

[phkrause]

This thread is not about versions of the bible, do your own research. The KJV was not the first bible in English so that was NOT the reason the king had it written. Now, was the king a man of God? Go check it out yourself. Therefore, the KJV was not authorized by God, but by the King--and it was a political move on his part. (Have people already forgotten the church of England and why the United States Constitution forbids the government to get involved or to establish a religion?)

Dr Rich, Johnnboy has shown you proof, he's quoting from resources which you have not done.