Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[Dr. Rich]

John 12:31 "Now judgment is upon this world. Now the ruler of this world shall be cast out."

John 14:30 "I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing on Me."

John 16:11 "and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."

Jesus had not come yet when Daniel was here. But since Jesus came and testified to the truth and passed judgment upon Satan, Satan is the ruler of this world as Satan told Jesus in the Desert.

Those who believe what Paul wrote in Romans 13 are in for a real awakening when they attempt to refuse the mark of the beast. They will be told that since the rulers of the Nations ordered this and since Romans 13 states they are from God, and you believe what Romans says, then you MUST receive the Mark! Even though what I just said was shown to me in a dream, I am not a prophet and don't claim it either. However, it is something to think about.

[jsm]

Rich, your ignorance is pathetic.

Obedience to God ALWAYS takes precedence over obedience to men. See it in BOTH the time of Daniel AND the time of the apostles:

Daniel 3.10

Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

3.11

And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

3.12

There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

3.13

Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Then they brought these men before the king.

3.14

Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?

3.15

Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?

3.16

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

3.17

If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

3.18

But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Acts 5.27

And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

5.28

Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

5.29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

[Musicman1228]

jsm,

Your arrogance is astonishing. People MUST stoop to name calling when they cannot refute logic and reason with belief.

If you are not in the Kingdom of Heaven you WILL take the mark of the beast. And the decision to accept this mark will be presented with such subtleness, tenderness and love that for the entire kingdom of the world it will be impossible to reject. The five stupid/foolish bridesmaids are left out of the marriage feast, and when the time comes will be the first to accept the mark of the beast; and THEY WERE MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN (SDA church).

Stupid people will ALWAYS believe a lie to be the truth, because that is what stupid people do.

[jsm]

mm, I back up my statements with the Bible. Where is the support for what you say?

[jsm]

"Unless we are rooted and grounded in the truth, we shall be swept away by Satan's delusive snares. We must cling to our Bibles. If Satan can make you believe that there are things in the word of God that are not inspired, he will then be prepared to ensnare your soul. We shall have no assurance, no certainty, at the very time we need to know what is truth. Our feet should be shod with the preparation of the gospel, and the truth of God should be our shield and buckler. We must know for ourselves that we have the truth of God. Therefore let no one entertain the question whether this or that portion of the word of God is inspired." EGW in RH 12/18/1888.

"Christ has said, 'Without Me you can do nothing.' The resolutions you may make in your own finite strength, will be only as ropes of sand; but if you pray in sincerity, surrendering yourself, soul, body, and spirit, unto God, you put on the whole armor of God, and open the soul to the righteousness of Christ; and THIS ALONE,-- Christ's IMPUTED righteousness,-- makes you able to stand against the wiles of the devil." EGW in YI 2/8/1894.

[Musicman1228]

Great, jsm. Now you start quoting EGW to me implying that I am not speaking the truth from the Words of Jesus Christ. Isn't that a hoot.

[jsm]

Sorry mm, I do consider EGW to be inspired by God; but I like to support her words from the Bible.

I thought you would recognize the associated BIBLE verses this time.

But to make it easy, they are quoted below.

Ephesians 3:14-21

For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height—to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Psalm 119:160

The entirety of Your word is truth.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 3:15-16 

And consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Ephesians 6:11-18

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.

John 15:5

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[jsm]

I want to include a few posts on what EGW said about EVENTS NEAR THE END OF THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT [iJ].

First, review the clear relationship between the IJ setting in Daniel 7 and the setting in Revelation 4. The main difference is that the court is ALREADY SITTING in Revelation 4. So this is NOT the START of the IJ, but is more likely the start of events as the IJ is coming to a close.

JESUS CLEARLY SAID REVELATION 4 EVENTS COME “AFTER” REVELATION 3 events.

Revelation 4:1 (Young's Literal Translation)

AFTER THESE [chapter 3] THINGS [meta tauta] I [John] saw, and lo, a door opened in the heaven, and the first voice that I heard as of a trumpet [JESUS] speaking with me, saying, `Come up hither, and I will shew thee what it behoveth to come to pass AFTER THESE [chapter 3] THINGS [meta tauta].'

Blotting out of sins comes AFTER the IJ:

GC 421

The actual cleansing of the heavenly is to be accomplished by the removal, or blotting out, of the sins which are there recorded. BUT BEFORE this can be accomplished, there must be an examination of the books of record to determine who, through repentance of sin and faith in Christ, are entitled to the benefits of His atonement.

Daniel 7:9-10 shows God the Father—“the Ancient of Days”—presiding in the IJ, in which “the COURT was seated.”

But the Bible says CHRIST ALONE MAKES THE FINAL DECISION.

“For THE FATHER JUDGES NO ONE, but HAS GIVEN ALL JUDGMENT TO THE SON.” John 5:22.

9T 185

Christ has been made our Judge. The Father is not the Judge. The angels are not. He who took humanity upon Himself, and in this world lived a perfect life, is to judge us. He only can be our Judge.

Daniel 7:9-10 shows the books being opened in heaven for examination; but REVELATION 5 SHOWS THE FATHER TRANSFERRING THE CRITICAL RECORD BOOK TO HIS SON.

COL 74

CHRIST HIMSELF will decide who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. HE WILL JUDGE every man according to his words and his works.

THAT Revelation 5 and onward JUDGMENT DAY BY CHRIST IS YET FUTURE:

EGW in 9T 266-268

The man who thinks that should he confess his sins he would show weakness, will not find pardon, will not see Christ as his Redeemer, but will go on and on in transgression, making blunder after blunder and adding sin to sin. What will such a one do in THE DAY THAT THE BOOKS ARE OPENED and every man is JUDGED according to the things written in the books?

THE FIFTH CHAPTER OF REVELATION needs to be closely studied. IT IS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE to those who shall act a part in the work of God FOR THESE LAST DAYS...WHEN GOD PRONOUNCES JUDGMENT upon the children of men....

"And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal,..Revelation 6:12-17….

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,. . . . These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."...Revelation 7:9-17.

In these scriptures two parties are brought to view. One party permitted themselves to be deceived and took sides with those with whom the Lord has a controversy. They misinterpreted the messages sent them and clothed themselves in robes of self-righteousness.

Notice this additional statement about the Revelation 5 book:

COL 293-4

When Pilate washed his hands, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person," the priests joined with the ignorant mob in declaring passionately, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Matt. 27:24, 25.

Thus the Jewish leaders made their choice. Their decision was registered in THE BOOK WHICH JOHN SAW the book which John saw in the hand of Him that sat upon the throne, THE BOOK WHICH NO MAN COULD OPEN. In all its vindictiveness this decision will appear before them in THE DAY WHEN THIS BOOK IS UNSEALED by the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

That indicates events during the Revelation 6 unsealing of the book are yet future, BUT MAY BEGIN VERY SOON.

[Guest]

"Unless we are rooted and grounded in the truth, we shall be swept away by Satan's delusive snares. We must cling to our Bibles. If Satan can make you believe that there are things in the word of God that are not inspired, he will then be prepared to ensnare your soul. We shall have no assurance, no certainty, at the very time we need to know what is truth. Our feet should be shod with the preparation of the gospel, and the truth of God should be our shield and buckler. We must know for ourselves that we have the truth of God. Therefore let no one entertain the question whether this or that portion of the word of God is inspired." EGW in RH 12/18/1888.

"Christ has said, 'Without Me you can do nothing.' The resolutions you may make in your own finite strength, will be only as ropes of sand; but if you pray in sincerity, surrendering yourself, soul, body, and spirit, unto God, you put on the whole armor of God, and open the soul to the righteousness of Christ; and THIS ALONE,-- Christ's IMPUTED righteousness,-- makes you able to stand against the wiles of the devil." EGW in YI 2/8/1894.

AMEN!

[Guest]

I want to include a few posts on what EGW said about EVENTS NEAR THE END OF THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT [iJ].

First, review the clear relationship between the IJ setting in Daniel 7 and the setting in Revelation 4. The main difference is that the court is ALREADY SITTING in Revelation 4. So this is NOT the START of the IJ, but is more likely the start of events as the IJ is coming to a close.

JESUS CLEARLY SAID REVELATION 4 EVENTS COME “AFTER” REVELATION 3 events.

Revelation 4:1 (Young's Literal Translation)

AFTER THESE [chapter 3] THINGS [meta tauta] I [John] saw, and lo, a door opened in the heaven, and the first voice that I heard as of a trumpet [JESUS] speaking with me, saying, `Come up hither, and I will shew thee what it behoveth to come to pass AFTER THESE [chapter 3] THINGS [meta tauta].'

Blotting out of sins comes AFTER the IJ:

GC 421

The actual cleansing of the heavenly is to be accomplished by the removal, or blotting out, of the sins which are there recorded. BUT BEFORE this can be accomplished, there must be an examination of the books of record to determine who, through repentance of sin and faith in Christ, are entitled to the benefits of His atonement.

Daniel 7:9-10 shows God the Father—“the Ancient of Days”—presiding in the IJ, in which “the COURT was seated.”

But the Bible says CHRIST ALONE MAKES THE FINAL DECISION.

“For THE FATHER JUDGES NO ONE, but HAS GIVEN ALL JUDGMENT TO THE SON.” John 5:22.

9T 185

Christ has been made our Judge. The Father is not the Judge. The angels are not. He who took humanity upon Himself, and in this world lived a perfect life, is to judge us. He only can be our Judge.

Daniel 7:9-10 shows the books being opened in heaven for examination; but REVELATION 5 SHOWS THE FATHER TRANSFERRING THE CRITICAL RECORD BOOK TO HIS SON.

COL 74

CHRIST HIMSELF will decide who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. HE WILL JUDGE every man according to his words and his works.

THAT Revelation 5 and onward JUDGMENT DAY BY CHRIST IS YET FUTURE:

EGW in 9T 266-268

The man who thinks that should he confess his sins he would show weakness, will not find pardon, will not see Christ as his Redeemer, but will go on and on in transgression, making blunder after blunder and adding sin to sin. What will such a one do in THE DAY THAT THE BOOKS ARE OPENED and every man is JUDGED according to the things written in the books?

THE FIFTH CHAPTER OF REVELATION needs to be closely studied. IT IS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE to those who shall act a part in the work of God FOR THESE LAST DAYS...WHEN GOD PRONOUNCES JUDGMENT upon the children of men....

"And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal,..Revelation 6:12-17….

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,. . . . These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."...Revelation 7:9-17.

In these scriptures two parties are brought to view. One party permitted themselves to be deceived and took sides with those with whom the Lord has a controversy. They misinterpreted the messages sent them and clothed themselves in robes of self-righteousness.

Notice this additional statement about the Revelation 5 book:

COL 293-4

When Pilate washed his hands, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person," the priests joined with the ignorant mob in declaring passionately, "His blood be on us, and on our children." Matt. 27:24, 25.

Thus the Jewish leaders made their choice. Their decision was registered in THE BOOK WHICH JOHN SAW the book which John saw in the hand of Him that sat upon the throne, THE BOOK WHICH NO MAN COULD OPEN. In all its vindictiveness this decision will appear before them in THE DAY WHEN THIS BOOK IS UNSEALED by the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

That indicates events during the Revelation 6 unsealing of the book are yet future, BUT MAY BEGIN VERY SOON.

This is very good jsm, thanks for posting it. You have pointed out some things that need to be understood.

[jsm]

Thanks Richard

[jsm]

“When sin has been repented of, confessed, and forsaken, then PARDON is written against the sinner's name [1 John 1:9]; but his SINS ARE NOT BLOTTED OUT until AFTER the investigative judgment [Leviticus 16:20-22].” EGW in ST 5/16/1895.

Application of the redemptive blood [1 Corinthians 6:20; Hebrews 9:12] is not shown in Daniel 7; but in Revelation 5:9 we read:

“You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have REDEEMED US to God BY YOUR BLOOD.”

"Revelation 6 & 7 are full of meaning. Terrible are the judgments of God revealed." EGW in Maranatha 284.

First seal

"The Captain of our salvation was ordering the battle and sending support to His soldiers. His power was mightily displayed, encouraging them to press the battle to the gates. He taught them terrible things in righteousness as He led them on step by step, CONQUERING AND TO CONQUER." 8T 41.

Seals 2, 3, & 4

“In the last scenes of this earth's history, war will rage. There will be pestilence, plague, and famine. The waters of the deep will overflow their boundaries. Property and life will be destroyed by fire and flood.” EGW in Bible Echo 6/17/1901.

“War caused famine. Want and bloodshed caused pestilence. And then men's hearts will fail them for fear, ‘and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth.’” EGW in RH 8/27/1861.

The tempest is coming, and we must get ready for its fury, by having repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord will arise to shake terribly the earth. We shall see troubles on all sides. Thousands of ships will be hurled into the depths of the sea. Navies will go down, and human lives will be sacrificed by millions. Fires will break out unexpectedly, and no human effort will be able to quench them. The palaces of earth will be swept away in the fury of the flames. Disasters by rail will become more and more frequent; confusion, collision, and death without a moment's warning will occur on the great lines of travel. The end is near, probation is closing.” EGW in ST 4/21/1890.

Religious persecution precedes the 5th seal

"The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, nor will it be understood until the unrolling of the scroll.” 6T 17.

When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near….

The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress which prophets have described as the time of Jacob's trouble. The cries of the faithful, persecuted ones ascend to heaven. And as the blood of Abel cried from the ground, there are voices also crying to God from martyrs' graves, from the sepulchers of the sea, from mountain caverns, from convent vaults: "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" [5th SEAL: Revelation 6;9-10] 5T 451.

The call out of Babylon comes after the 5th seal

“When the fifth seal was opened, John the Revelator in vision saw beneath the altar the company that were slain for the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. AFTER THIS CAME THE SCENES DESCRIBED IN THE EIGHTEENTH OF REVELATION, when those who are faithful and true are called out of Babylon. Revelation 18:1-5 quoted.” EGW Man Releases, Vol 20, p 14

The call out of Babylon comes after the 6th seal

"What terrible scenes will take place WHEN THE LORD SHALL ARISE TO SHAKE TERRIBLY THE EARTH! [isaiah 2:19-21. Compare with Revelation 6:12-17] THEN THE WORDS OF REV. 18:1-3 WILL BE FULFILLED.” EGW in RH 7/5/1906

Here is more on that “shake terribly the earth” prophecy about “the latter days.” Isaiah 2:2.

In his vision of the great judgment day, Isaiah witnesses the consternation of those unprepared to meet their Lord in peace. "The day of the Lord is at hand," he exclaims; "it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: and they shall be afraid." Isa. 13:6-8.

"The loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. And the idols he shall utterly abolish. . . . In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, WHEN HE ARISETH TO SHAKE TERRIBLY THE EARTH." Isa. 2:17-21. EGW in RH 7/1/1915.

“War, and rumors of war, sword, famine, and pestilence are first to shake the powers of earth, then the voice of God will shake the sun, moon, and stars, and this earth also.” EW 41.

I Believe the seven warning trumpet calls from heaven during destructive events in Revelation 8-11 are the same as the Revelation 18 call from heaven to come out of Babylon, as Babylon is being destroyed.

Ezekiel 33:2-6

“Son of man, speak to the children of your people, and say to them: ‘When I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from their territory and make him their watchman, when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he BLOWS THE TRUMPET and WARNS the people, then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head. He heard the sound of THE TRUMPET, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life. But if the watchman sees the sword coming and DOES NOT BLOW THE TRUMPET, and the people are NOT WARNED, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.’”

“The trumpet note of warning must be sounded. We are living in a fearfully wicked age.” 4T 517.

“The SEVEN ANGELS stood before God to receive their commission. To them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS. The Lord was going forth TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH.” EGW in Maranatha 284

“Solemn EVENTS before us are YET TO TRANSPIRE [in the FUTURE]. TRUMPET AFTER TRUMPET is to be sounded, [then] vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth." EGW in Maranatha 257.

[Ron Lambert]

You might be interested in listening on-line to my sermon which I preached at the New Haven, Michigan, Seventh-day Adventist Church on May 1 of this year (2010). It sets forth my recent findings concerning the prophecies of the seven seals, applied to history after 1844, which allow us to see where we are today in the divine sequence of events.

Here is the link to my sermon. You may have to copy and paste it into your browser address header. It is just under 24 minutes in length:

http://www.nhchurch.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=237:may-1-you-are-here&catid=68:2010-sermons&Itemid=73

Many Christians and especially most Seventh-day Adventists recognize that the event portrayed in Revelation chapter five is the Investigative, pre-Advent Judgment, the same one portrayed in Daniel chapter 7:9-14. That passage in Daniel explicitly says it is the Judgment, and the context clearly indicates that it comes before the Second Coming of Christ. But if we admit that Revelation five portrays the Judgment, then it is logically inescapable that the prophecies of the seven seals must transpire during the Judgment, since this is when the seals of the book featured in that chapter are said to be opened.

In the interpretation of Bible prophecy, we must ever keep in mind the strict admonition of 2 Peter 1:20, 21: “knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” (NKJV)

In order to avoid a private interpretation, we must do three reasonable things. First, all prophetic symbols must be defined by Scripture alone. We can do this, because the prophets “spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” Thus prophecies written a thousand years apart in different languages, can still be relied upon to be consistent in the meaning of the symbols used. This is one of the strongest evidences for the divine inspiration of the Bible, that this works! One Divine Mind is in evidence over all. An example of the way prophetic symbols are defined in Scripture is seen in Revelation 17:15.

Second, the prophecies must be applied to history, during the time periods context indicates to us that they apply. This is seen in the prophecies of Daniel (see for example Daniel 8:20-26). Also in Revelation five, the context is the Judgment. This indicates to us when the prophecies of the seven seals must be applied by comparison to history.

Third, we must be reasonable in understanding whether something is literal narrative, or symbolic. One of the most simple methods of doing this is to ask ourselves if what is described CAN reasonably be literal. If most likely not, then we should expect it to be figurative and symbolic. Since the book of Revelation is apocalyptic prophecy, we should expect that most of it is symbolic.

Of course, there are very compelling Scriptural reasons for believing that Revelation five depicts the Judgment.

Clearly judicial statements are made that an investigation is being made to find someone who is worthy: "Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?" (v. 2); and then that "no man was FOUND worthy" (vs. 3-4). Then the Lamb is FOUND to be worthy: "behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof....Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof" (vs. 5, 9). And as a result of the Lamb being found worthy to open the book, the four beasts and 24 elders sing a song of praise to the Lamb for saving mankind: "thou wast slain, and hast redeemed…." (v. 9). Also as a result of the Lamb being found worthy, It is declared: "Thou art worthy to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing" (v. 12). Compare this to Daniel 7:14: "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom...." This came as a result of the Judgment, when "the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Daniel 7:13).

Comparison with the text of Revelation five and Daniel 7:9-14 shows many parallels:

Other thrones are mentioned besides God's throne. Compare Daniel 7:9 with Revelation 4:4.

The Son of Man (the Lamb) receives dominion and a kingdom: Revelation 5:9-13; compare Daniel 7:13, 14.

The people of God are said to be saved in His kingdom as a result: Revelation 5:9, 10; compare Daniel 7:27.

A book or books are mentioned, which need to be opened and consulted: Revelation 5:1-5, 7-9; compare Daniel 7:10. Revelation five focuses on one particular book which needs to be opened but cannot be opened, unless someone worthy to open it can be found.

It is also worth noting that a unique description of the number of angels serving before the throne of God is found in both chapters: "...and the number of them [angels] was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands." (Revelation 5:11.) Compare Daniel 7:10: "thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the Judgment was set, and the books were opened." Modern translations render this "myriads upon myriads," or "myriads of myriads," instead of "ten thousand times ten thousand." But still, these similar formulations are only found in Revelation 5:11 and in Daniel 7:10, and no where else in all of Scripture.

As for the date in history when the Judgment began, this we can see from the prophecies of Daniel 8:14 and 9:25. Daniel 8:14 gives us the longest time prophecy in the Bible—2300 prophetic days, which signify 2300 literal years. Since Daniel fainted before the prophecy could be completed, an angel was sent later to explain the starting point for the time prophecy. History reveals to us that in the Autumn of 457 B.C., Ezra arrived in the land of Judah with the document from King Artaxerxes and then published throughout the land the commandment it contained to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem, as stipulated in Daniel 9:25. From 457 B.C., 2300 years takes us to 1844 A.D. (Remember, there was no year zero—1 B.C. was followed by 1 A.D.) This same time prophecy in Daniel is important, because it specifies the time when Jesus was to be anointed for His ministry, and when three and a half years later, He would be “cut off, but not for Himself” (v. 26), and in doing so would end any more need for the sacrifices of the Hebrew sanctuary (v. 27).

In the Hebrew sanctuary services, the “cleansing of the sanctuary” was the Day of Judgment. Thus Daniel 8:14 sets the time for the beginning of the Judgment, and Daniel 9:25 gives us the date where we start counting.

One of the strongest evidences for faith, and for our confidence in the Bible as the Word of God, is the perfect reliability of all Bible prophecy. As the prophet declared: “Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, `My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.” (Isaiah 46:9-11; NKJV)

One of the last divine warning messages to all the earth begins in Revelation 14:6, 7 with the words: “Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people--saying with a loud voice, ‘Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.’” Here the “everlasting gospel” is equated with the proclamation that “the hour of His judgment has come.”

Indeed, Revelation chapter five does show us that the Judgment is the “good news” of the gospel for those who have faith in God, because there we see that Jesus, the Son of God and Son of Man—called in this chapter “the Lamb”—stands for us in Judgment. He does this not merely as an Advocate by our side. He stands in our place! His worthiness is counted as our worthiness. His works of faith, become for us the pure and perfect robe of the saints, by which we are judged worthy of reward, because He has become the new Head and Representative of our race, the New Adam, in whom we all are given new life.

My book, detailing my findings set forth in this sermon, along with similar findings concerning the seven trumpets, and Daniel 11:40-12:13, are contained in my recently published book, Genuine New Light from Revelation and Daniel, published by Teach Services. Here is a link: http://www.teachservices.com/products/Genuine-New-Light-from-Revelation-%26-Daniel-%7B47%7D-Lambert%2C-Ronald-R.html

It is also available from Amazon.com.

[jsm]

Response to above post by:

Ron Lambert

Hi Ron,

I finally had time to listen to your sermon on the seven seals and suggest you consider the following.

1. I agree that Revelation 4-5 is the same setting as the Daniel 7 IJ, but describes its close rather than the start.

2. The IJ began in 1844 and is described in Revelation 3:8 as beginning during the Philadelphia period of church history when the “door” was opened between the holy and most holy in the heavenly sanctuary.

3. Jesus told John in Revelation 4:1 to come in vision through that already open door, where Jesus would show him “things which must take place after” [or AT THE END OF] the Laodicean period of church history.

4. Daniel 7 shows thrones being set up as the IJ began. Revelation 4 shows people already seated on those thrones.

5. Daniel 7 shows Christ coming to the IJ, and Revelation 4-5 shows Him already “in the midst of the throne.” Revelation 5:6.

6. Daniel 7 shows the Heavenly Father presiding in the IJ, in which many people take part. Revelation 5 shows a sealed scroll being given by Him to Christ as the IJ is coming to a close.

7. The significance here is that “The Father judges NO ONE, but has given ALL judgment to the Son.” John 5:22. The Investigation process is just that—an INVESTIGATION of the records to reveal all who have had “FORGIVEN” entered against their names, as in the Leviticus 4-5 daily ceremonies.

8. Jesus—as Priest—was the only One who FORGIVES, but the records could be reviewed by others.

9. The Investigation which began in 1844 will end with a CLEANSING of the records and of those who have been fully forgiven. “For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to CLEANSE you, that you may be CLEAN FROM ALL YOUR SINS before the LORD.” Leviticus 16:30. “Then shall the [heavenly] sanctuary be CLEANSED.” Daniel 8:14.

10. This is the time Peter referred to when he said: “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out [CLEANSED], so that times of refreshing [Latter Rain] may come from the presence of the Lord.” Acts 3:19.

11. Jesus takes the scroll in Revelation 5 to perform that act.

12. And all 7 seals on the scroll must be broken before it can be opened to blot out recorded sins. And that is what is taking place during the Revelation 8:1 silence in heaven.

13. The Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit is symbolized in verse 5, just as the Early Rain was symbolized by “a rushing mighty wind” and “tongues of fire.” Acts 2:2-4. Consider also the evidence of God’s presence in Exodus 19:16-18 when He came to Mt Sinai to proclaim the 10 Commandments.

14. Events described as taking place on earth during the first six seals should be recognized as follows: 1. The gospel proclaimed more fully [as now with radio, TV, etc.]. 2. “Take peace from the earth” means war in many places. 3. The very high price of food is given to symbolize famine. 4. Death and destruction from many sources is indicated here. 5. This is clearly a period of extreme persecution of God’s people. 6. These events are also described in the Isaiah 2 prophecy about “the latter days.” “And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his masjesty, when he arised to shake terribly the earth. In the day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefs of the ragged rocks, for fear ot the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake the terrible the earth.”

15. “What terrible scenes will take place when the Lord shall arise to shake terribly the earth! Then the words of Rev. 18:1-3 will be fulfilled.” EGW in Life Sketches 412. Obviously the Loud Cry takes place AFTER the sixth seal, and probably during the 7-trumpets period—which is a symbol of God’s final loud call to repentance.

[jsm]

Endtimesurprise.blogspot.com

is a website for you to prayerfully study and share thoughts on Bible prophecy for our times. Please share your thoughts on this web site.

A common sense histricist method is used in Revelation 4-11 to show a reasonable end-time application.

In 4:1 John said he looked "AFTER these things" which he saw and heard in previous chapters. And then Jesus said He will show John “WHAT MUST TAKE PLACE” “ AFTER these things” presented in those previous chapters.

This clearly means what is then presented will take place at the end of the Laodicean church period of chapter 3:14-22.

This is supported by EGW and will be what she called “the grand review of the judgment.”

John was then taken in vision through AN ALREADY OPEN DOOR [Revelation 4:1] which had been OPENED in 3:8 to symbolize start of the IJ in 1844.

[jsm]

How is it that the 144,000 will be "without fault" when they are sealed?

Consider the following:

Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” John 6:47.

He also said, “‘He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive.” John 7:38-39.

So it is by faith in Him that we are freely given the promise of heaven; and through faith in Him we receive the power of the Holy Spirit to transform us more and more into His likeness.

Paul considered these two promises by Jesus to be so definite he called them “the law of faith” and “the law of the Spirit of life.”

He applied “the law of faith” to the forgiveness freely offered to all who believe in Christ, and said that by this law “we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” But remember, we also “establish” the law of God through faith.” Romans 3:24-28, 31.

Centuries before, God had told Abraham his descendants would be as many as the stars. He never wavered in believing what God had promised, so God “accounted it to him for righteousness.” Genesis 15:5-6.

And this was recorded for our benefit, showing that righteousness also “shall be [accounted] to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.” Romans 4:20-25.

This righteousness which is accounted to us through Christ, and by which we are justified, is our title to heaven. The righteousness by which we are being sanctified is imparted through Christ by the Holy Spirit and is our fitness for heaven—“going on from strength to strength.” and growing “into the image of Christ.” EGW in RH 6/4/1895. Both require our continual faith in Christ, and both are essential in making sure of heaven.

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace [period for spiritual growth] in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” Romans 5:1-2.

Jesus said we must be born of the Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5.

And Paul adds, “This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by [works of] the flesh?” “For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of [imparted] righteousness by faith.” Galatians 3:2-3; 5:5.

The motives of Satan in heaven, and Eve when she took the fruit, became self-serving. Isaiah 14:12-14; Genesis 3:6. And every person since then has been born with that self-serving nature.

What we now need is the Holy Spirit working in us to transform our motives back to a spontaneous love for God and for others.

“The righteousness of Christ consists in right actions and good works from pure, unselfish motives. Outside righteousness, while the inward adorning is wanting, will be of no avail.” In fact, “Every course of action has a twofold character and importance. It is virtuous or vicious, right or wrong, according to the motive which prompts it.” 3T 528; EGW in RH 5/17/1898.

This is what Paul meant when he said there is “no law” against acts motivated by love and its various attributes—“the fruit of the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22-23. And when the disciples of Jesus picked grain to eat on the Sabbath, He said: “If you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.” Matthew 12:7. “All a man's ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the Lord.” Proverbs 16:2 niv.

The word “fruit”—as in fruit of the Spirit—implies a growing process over time. Jesus explained this need for patience in His parable about sowing the Word in different types of soil. The “good ground” represents “those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.” Luke 8:11-15.

We are to “grow up in all things into” the likeness of Christ. Ephesians 4:15. And having been justified by grace, the Holy Spirit begins this growing process in us.

“When the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:4-7.

While confidence in works will not save us, Paul goes on to say “that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works.” He also said we will even become “zealous for good works.” Titus 3:8; 2:14. This compares with what David said: “I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart.” Psalms 40:8.

So how does “the law of the Spirit of life” apply here?

First consider the dilemma—and remember that God considers both our motives and actions:

“Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.” “For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do...For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find...For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law [the law of sin] in my members, warring against the law of [God in] my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Jeremiah 13:23; Romans 7:15-18, 22-24.

The problem is an inability in our own strength to overcome the law of sin and death. And as we read further, we find that it is only by “the law of the Spirit of life” that we can gain the victory through Christ:

“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.” Romans 8:1-2.

Then we are told just how “the law of the Spirit of life” works:

“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, [set their minds on] the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” And “if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life [victory over sin] to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” Romans 8:5-6, 11.

“So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.” Galatians 5:16 niv.

Remember again: We must be born of the Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5.

And John adds, “Whoever has been born of God [born of the Spirit] does not sin, for His seed remains in him [the love motive “abides” in him. 1 John 4:16] ; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” 1 John 3:9.

“Love must be the principle of action. Love is the underlying principle of God's government in heaven and earth, and it must be the foundation of the Christian's character. This alone can make and keep him steadfast. This alone can enable him to withstand trial and temptation.” COL 49.

“Love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God.” “For this is the love of God, [when] we keep His commandments [and] His commandments are not burdensome [We “delight” to do His will. Psalms 40:8]. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world—our faith.” 1 John 4:7; 5:3-4.

The love motive is to grow in us more and more; so during the growing process we can be thankful for these comforting words: “My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” 1 John 2:1.

“But we all, with unveiled face [receptive hearts. vs. 15-16], beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.” 2 Corinthian 3:18.

Jesus emphasized that this close relationship will develop in us the motivating fruit of the Spirit: “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit.” John 15:5.

“When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously. The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within—when the sunshine of heaven fills the heart and is revealed in the countenance.” COL 384.

“God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment.” 1 John 4:16-17 nasb.

This compares with another promise about the Holy Spirit: “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you [motivate you] to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.” “For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” Ezekiel 36:27; Philippians 2:13.

So “may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13.

"Now is the time to prepare. The seal of God will never be placed upon the forehead of an impure man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of the ambitious, world-loving man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of men or women of false tongues or deceitful hearts. All who receive the seal must be without spot before God--candidates for heaven...Search the Scriptures for yourselves, that you may understand the fearful solemnity of the present hour. " 5T 216.

Yes, by accepting and complying with those two great promises by Christ, we can be ready for the seal of God.

[wayfinder]

Revelation 14:1-5 1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps.

3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders ; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.

4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

5 And no lie was found in their mouth ; they are blameless.

The text speaks for itself. "The defiled with women" can also be translated as (defiled with the woman)see Revelation 2:20. This would make more sense, because there will be women among the 144,000, you get the picture.

[Ron Lambert]

jsm, you have been doing a good, thoughtful effort to come to grips with the meaning of Revelation 4-5. I would still submit, however, that the book with the seven seals needed to be opened as part of the Judgment process, and that mankind could not be saved without it, and therefore it seems to me the conclusion is inescapable that the prophecies of the seven seals must apply to history during the Judgment. Which according to Daniel 8:14 and 9:24 and comparison to history began in 1844.

You suggested that the events of Revelation 4-5 come after the time of the Laodicean church. But the Judgment comes during the time of the Laodicean church. (Also during the time of the other churches; I will explain in my next post.)

As for whether the beginning, middle, or endpoint of the Judgment is involved in Rev. 4-5 and Daniel 7, it certainly would only take moments for the seats to be set up and all the Heavenly spectators to take their seats. We do know that the Judgment must be divided into two phases, because the Judgment of the Living does not begin until the final test over the Beast and its Image and its Mark come to everyone living on earth, which is needed to bring everyone to the point of making the final decision between faith in the Creator and faith in the creature. It is implicit in the text that this juncture between the Judgment of the Dead and the end-time Judgment of the Living takes places during the fifth seal. This is when the martyrs of the past are given white raiment, and it is when they are told they must continue resting a little longer until the final number of their end-time fellow martyrs will be completed.

[Ron Lambert]

Wayfinder, you are right in the way you identify the "woman" with which the 144,000 are NOT defiled. Please note also that the woman (Jezebel) of Rev. 2:20 is also the corrupt scarlet woman depicted in Revelation 17.

Let me go on and suggest a little more. The seven churches prophecy apply primarily to the time of the end. Note these words in the words of Jesus to the fourth church, concerning the test over Jezebel being cast into a bed: "and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." Now, Jesus said ALL the churches SHALL KNOW by this experience of the Thyatiran church, that Jesus is the One who judges them. But if the popular theory that the seven churches refer to periods in church history, then hundreds of years separate the first church from the Thyatiran church. So how could the church of Ephesus learn from an experience that happens to the Thyatiran church, if the Thyatiran period of the church is hundreds of years later? I believe all the seven churches are depicted in end-time prophecies. They are concurrent. Notice what Jesus said to the church of Philadelphia (which was hundreds of years ago, according the historical periods theory): "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev. 3:10) This promise would be meaningless if their time in history is long since past and they are all dead.

[wayfinder]

I agree with you that the seven messages are current and are specific to the kingdom of heaven. Here is another example of currency.

Revelation 3:3 'So remember what you have received and heard ; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

I understand that when Jesus returns, He comes like a thief in the night, see Matthew 24:43.

The seven messages are to seven assemblies, each assembly is represented with a lampstand. Someone with your understanding would have already made the connection with the lampstand/kingdom of heaven representation. The lampstand stood on the south wall of the temple opposite the table of the presence. Moses was instructed to construct the lampstand so that it would "light the area in front of it". The kingdom of God illuminates the true God of the kingdom. The kingdom of heaven made it's appearence in 1844 when they went out "to meet the Bridegroom", see Matthew 25:1. This appearence was perfectly timed to occur at the end of the 2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8. The functioning of the sanctuary/temple is on behalf of the kingdom of God, where there is no kingdom the sanctuary does not function. The restoration of the sanctuary services (in Heaven)began in 1844 with the appearance of the kingdom. The seven messages are specificly for the SDAs, the church which was born out of great dissapointment

[Ron Lambert]

The Second Coming of Jesus will not be secret--Jesus said it will be like the lightning shining from the east to the west (Matt. 24:27). Rev. 6:14-16 says that the sign of Jesus' imminent coming will be visible in the sky for some time, enough for all the wicked to cry to the rocks and the hills to cover them and hide them from the wrath of the Lamb. It is more common among SDAs to take the "Coming as a thief" as referring to Jesus' coming in Judgment. I think this applies better to the beginning of the Jugment of the Living, than to the beginning of the Judgment in general in 1844.

I am not certain where you are going with your analogy of the kingdom being introduced in 1844. I am concerned that someone might infer from that that we SDAs are claiming to be the entirety of God's kingdom/church right now. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not now the entirety of spiritual Israel--though of course we are a part of it. All of modern professed Christendom is modern spiritual Israel. We SDAs are a prophet within Israel--the Elijah promised in Malachi 4:5. The final end-time church, sealed with the special end-time seal of God, and that gives the Loud Cry empowered by the Latter Rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit, has not yet appeared.

The SDA Church must still go through the Shaking experience foretold by Ellen G. White, and by the fourth trumpet (Rev. 8:12, 13). Note that in the prophecy of the fourth trumpet, all the symbols are there identifying the church in Revelation 12:1, except for the woman herself not yet being visible. But as a result of the Shaking experience, when a third of our brightest lights (thought leaders) go out in darkness (as Sister White foretold), and controversy caused by confusion concerning the gospel (sun) and sound doctrines of Scripture (moon), the survivors are readied to give the last warning messages to the world. I submit that an angel who cries "Woe" three times is conceptually the same as three angels giving the world's last warning messages (Rev. 14:6-11).

[wayfinder]

When considering a prophecy, I find it important to consider the whole prophecy and not just important points. Matthew 24 and 25 is an earwitness account of a prophecy Jesus gave to His desciples about the last days (end of the age). Matthew 24:42-51 is a description of a group of people called bondservants. A trustworthy and wise bondservant who is "Head of the Household" is giving a message because the time has come. Verse 46 tells us, "Blessed is that bondservant whom his Master finds so doing when He comes." Jesus also says that this "Head of the House" will know the time that the theif is coming if he is awake.

If one is to consider this "coming like a thief" and the admonition to be awake and not asleep and connect it with the ten bridesmaids account, it is clear that the bridesmaids were asleep when the Bridegroom left to get His bride. The cry at midnight which awakens the bridesmaids is given by the bondservants. It does not make sense to consider this event as occuring at the end of the great tribulation. The bondservants and wise bridesmaids prepare the bride(nations) to meet the Bridegroom. If the bridesmaids sleep through this preparing time and are not awakened until it is all over, whats the point in awakening them. The book of Revelation is the account of the preparation of the bride of Christ.

Matthew 25:1 tells us that the Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto ten bridesmaids who...went out to meet the Bridegroom, but the Bridegroom was delaying and they all got drowsey and fell asleep. This is a clear revelation of what happened in 1844C.E.

[Ron Lambert]

As an historical note, during the final year of the Advent Movement of William Miller's time, Samuel Snow and people who agreed with him, began proclaiming what they called "The Midnight Cry." The reference was taken from the parable of the Ten Virgins. Snow had studied the Jewish Karaite calculation for when the Day of Atonement was due to come at the end of the 2300 years of Daniel 8:14, and he announced the date as October 22, 1844. Francis D. Nichols wrote a very interesting history of this Midnight Cry Movement in his book titled The Midnight Cry. James and Ellen White, Joseph Bates, Hiram Edson, J.N. Loughborough, and others who went on to found the Seventh-day Adventist Church, all participated in the Midnight Cry Movement.

[wayfinder]

In order to fulfill the "midnight cry" part of the prophecy every element of it must be met. None of the parts concerning the end of that prophecy were met. The most important one is that the Bridegroom did not come, He did not come in 1843 or 1844. A very flimsy attempt was made to try and explain why the expected fulfillment did not occur with the explaination of the "change in ministry" of Jesus in the sanctuary. Look at the prophecy, element by element. First it is clear that the Master comes to the group designated as the bondservants.

Matthew 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time ?

46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

The Master, who is Jesus, comes to His household while His kingdom continues to sleep. The trustworthy and sensible "Head of the House" is awake and feeding his fellow bondservants their food (testimony of Jesus). Then these bondservants are sent on ahead of the bridegroom to awaken the sleeping bridesmaids (kingdom) and the five wise are prepared and the five foolish refuse. The midnight cry is the shaking and occurs during the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12. The 1335 days are literal days and not years. The bondservant part of this prophecy is bing fulfilled right now. The 1335 days will start shortly, I believe it will start around May-June-July of 2012.

[Ron Lambert]

You make some good points. There are problems, as you pointed out, with the traditional understanding of "The Midnight Cry." I agree that the 1335 days of Daniel 12 are literal days, and start in the near future. The same with all the time periods in Daniel 12. Personally, I would shy away from making any predictions that have anything to do with 2012, not while so many people are infatuated with the idea of the Mayan calendar ending then, and that obnoxious movie, 2012, is still fresh in people's minds. (I say obnoxious, because it shows the world being destroyed again by water, something God has promised He will not do.)