How does it affect you?

[LifeHiscost]

The Bible seems to clearly teach that there will be no death in heaven or on the new Earth. It also teaches that humans will become immortal. The question becomes "Is this a restoration?"

If it is a restoration that means that man was at one time immortal. It also means that at one time there were no animal predators. That would also mean that there was a creative work accomplished by God after the Fall.

I understand "immortal" to be no end of life. Therefore it could not be something with which we receive restoration for we would never have died to begin with.

That doesn't mean there wasn't a subsequent act of creative work by God after the fall though.

Both the terms, "must be born again"and "be ye therefor perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect", are creative acts.

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,"Hebrews 9:27 NKJV

[wayfinder]

Access to the Tree of Life was taken away from Adam and Eve and they eventually died, because they were created mortal. In the earth made anew, the Tree of Life will be restored so that mortal flesh (nations) will have access to it and live forever. The righteous 144,000 and Kingdom of God, will be born again and thus be sons and daughters of God; therefore they will be immortal, they will not need to eat from the Tree of Life to not die.

Revelation 22:2 NAS

in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month ; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14 NAS

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

[Bravus]

Question: Is the notion that it was eating the fruit of the Tree of Life that made people immortal, rather than that they were created immortal in their own bodies, actually Biblical? I hear it bandied around quite a bit, and used as the reason for expelling them from the Garden, but as far as I know it's more of a speculation (also based partially on the Tree in Heaven, but it too is described as being 'for the healing of the nations', which is not the same thing as granting immortality.

Not having a go at anyone, just interested in the real Biblical antecedents of some of our traditional ideas.

[Woody]

Ellen White was shown in vision that other worlds have the Tree of Life and if they eat of it ... they will die.

[wayfinder]

Question: Is the notion that it was eating the fruit of the Tree of Life that made people immortal, rather than that they were created immortal in their own bodies, actually Biblical? I hear it bandied around quite a bit, and used as the reason for expelling them from the Garden, but as far as I know it's more of a speculation (also based partially on the Tree in Heaven, but it too is described as being 'for the healing of the nations', which is not the same thing as granting immortality.

Not having a go at anyone, just interested in the real Biblical antecedents of some of our traditional ideas.

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil ; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "-

23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.

24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Genesis 6:3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh (mortal) ; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

It appears to me, as from my earlier post, there are three groups of people in heaven and then on the earth made anew. 1. the 144,000, 2. the saints (holy people/kingdom of God) 3. the nations (numberless multitude/those who did not receive the mark of the beast during the great tribulation). This last group will remain mortal (flesh and blood) beings, but will have access to the Tree of Life and therefore have imortality as did Adam and Eve.

[Bravus]

Heh, wow, yeah, I really should have known that! Thanks very much.

[LifeHiscost]

Access to the Tree of Life was taken away from Adam and Eve and they eventually died, because they were created mortal. In the earth made anew, the Tree of Life will be restored so that mortal flesh (nations) will have access to it and live forever. The righteous 144,000 and Kingdom of God, will be born again and thus be sons and daughters of God; therefore they will be immortal, they will not need to eat from the Tree of Life to not die.

Appreciate the Scriptures but am having a difficult time arriving at the same conclusions without a lot of assumptions.

[Dr. Rich]

LifeHiscost, could you please give us what you believe are 'a lot of assumptions"? Of course I am assuming that you can do this.

The reason for this is to take a closer look at all of the evidence myself. Thanks.

[wayfinder]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

Access to the Tree of Life was taken away from Adam and Eve and they eventually died, because they were created mortal. In the earth made anew, the Tree of Life will be restored so that mortal flesh (nations) will have access to it and live forever. The righteous 144,000 and Kingdom of God, will be born again and thus be sons and daughters of God; therefore they will be immortal, they will not need to eat from the Tree of Life to not die.

Appreciate the Scriptures but am having a difficult time arriving at the same conclusions without a lot of assumptions.

Is it an assumption on my part to take God's word as the truth? When God says all mankind is flesh (mortal) and we will end all life in 120 years, then 120 years later God sent a flood and distroyed all flesh, except for Noah and his family. Is it an assumption on my part to take God at His word when He said, "the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" so they sent them out of the paradise of God so they could not eat from the tree of life and "live forever". Is it an assumption on my part to take God at His word when He says that in the earth made new that the tree of life will be there and it's leaves will be for the healing of the nations.

[LifeHiscost]

LifeHiscost, could you please give us what you believe are 'a lot of assumptions"? Of course I am assuming that you can do this.

The reason for this is to take a closer look at all of the evidence myself. Thanks.

[Dr. Rich]

Thank you, I see your point and this is a tough question. Without further research my knee jerk would be that the saints (144k, 5 wise virgins and those dead in Christ so to speak, would be those who are changed to be somewhat like the angels, while the multitude that come out of the tribulation would therefore need the tree of life. Hmmm? I am assuming that wayfinder's understanding is totally different than most, but as for myself, I really don't know but I do see that his understanding could be correct. Of course just being there would be nice and I wouldn't care if I was just the water boy for the 144k.

[wayfinder]

This is how I understand the salvation issue. There are three groups of the "saved". The first group is sealed before the great tribulation (trumpets), they are also sealed before the kingdom of heaven Revelation 7, 144,000 set apart from the 12 tribes of Israel (kingdom of heaven). The 144,000 are the ones who wakeup the 10 bridesmaids and the 5 wise are the second group sealed (saved), this also occurs before the trumpets. The third group is sealed during the trumpets, these are the numberless multitude. In Revelation 7 we are told this group comes out of the great tribulation and in Revelation 15 we are told that they did not worship the beast and reveive his mark. The beast appears during the trumpets (Revelation 9, 13 (second beast), 17 (beast from the abyss). In heaven there are three groups of those who were sealed with the seal of the Living God. This is also evident all through scripture, the Levites were the priests, the 144,000 are as the Levites were. The Israelites were the kingdom of heaven, the 10 bridesmaids are called the kingdom of heaven in Matthew 25:1. The whole purpose for the priests and kingdom was to shine the light of truth to the nations. This has always been God's plan it is that this time it works out.

[LifeHiscost]

Of course just being there would be nice and I wouldn't care if I was just the water boy for the 144k.

I'm with you, although I'm of the opinion the plan of salvation is so simple we aren't going to need to jockey to get into any special category. If there is one of the categories that God would have us in as opposed to one of the others, it will be His call and will largely be based on whether we fill the necessary Christian virtues.

"And He called a little child to Himself and put him in the midst of them,

And said, Truly I say to you, unless you repent (change, turn about) and become like little children [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving], you can never enter the kingdom of heaven [at all].

Whoever will humble himself therefore and become like this little child [trusting, lowly, loving, forgiving] is greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:2-4 AMP parenthesis brackets theirs' LHC

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand."John 10:27-29 NKJV

Joy!!