Slippery slope? Where will it stop?

[karl]

My wife and I occasionally dance at home.

Are you praising the Lord? Or are you preparing vertically for what you want to do horizontally?

Psalm 150 states that dancing as a form of praise to God is not only possible, but encouraged. From records of dancing in the Bible, we may reasonably conclude that the Bible authors were not referring to couples' dancing. Yet there is no way I can derive from the Bible a prohibition of dancing such as you and your wife do at home.

[aldona]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

My wife and I occasionally dance at home.

Are you praising the Lord? Or are you preparing vertically for what you want to do horizontally?

Have I missed something here? He clearly said "wife." Are we restricting sexual activity between lawfully wedded spouses now as sinful?

(Especially in the privacy of their own home??!

aldona

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

My wife and I occasionally dance at home.

Are you praising the Lord? Or are you preparing vertically for what you want to do horizontally?

Yes, I praise the Lord for such a wonderful gift! And we do more horizontal dancing than the vertical.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

My wife and I occasionally dance at home.

Yes, I praise the Lord for such a wonderful gift! And we do more horizontal dancing than the vertical.

Totally cool.

And no, Aldona, I was not getting on Gerry for dancing with his Missus. I'm all for it.

[Gail]

[Stan]

It's a conundrum all right: isn't the usual argument against dancing the idea that it might lead to sex?

It is more like having sex may lead to dancing......

[Dr. Shane]

This may seem like I am being a curious snob but, who here waited till marriage?

My wife and I waited. I think the majority of professed Christians do have sex before marriage although they wait longer before doing it. That said, a fairly large minority of professed Christians do wait and they are better off because of it. Good, satisfying sex tends not to happen until two people have been with each other for a long period of time. The less partners a person has before marriage, the more satisfying sex they tend to report during marriage over the long run. Pre-marital sex can really mess a woman up during her marriage. A woman that had multiple sex partners before marriage often times fells subconsciously that men only want to use her for sex. After a few years of marriage, that subconscious reality causes problems in the marriage as she starts to feel used by her husband every time he wants sex.

Purity balls may have their place. Christians talking publicly about sex is most times going to be beneficial to everyone involved in the conversation. Secrets keep us sick. Sex shouldn't be something we only talk about in secret or avoid talking about altogether.

As for dancing, well I have slow danced with girls and yes, I think it is a form of *sexual* activity. If it is a fast dance with little contact, that is more like exercise than anything sexual. BTW, my family goes dancing when there are appropriate places to do so.

[LifeHiscost]

Dancing is the best! What if I want to dance with my wife? Is that wrong? Or is it right? Can it be an expression of love?

Believe me, when I want to make love to my wife, I do not have the Lord foremost in my mind, visualizing pictures of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane! I think the Lord can understand that!

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."Hebrews 13:4 NKJV

God blesses!

[fccool]

This is one of the cases where smaller issue seems to overshadow the larger ones. "Dancing leads to sex" is in itself a slippery slope position to take.

It's ironic that by telling our youth what's sexual and what's not, we actually telling them how to think about women. We sort of suggest that men-women relationship is centered around "sexual activity" in whatever setting we present it. In a way, we program into their minds that it's difficult to keep a pure and responsible relationship and that they can't be trusted and can't trust themselves. We sort of implying that they supposed to have sex after dancing, or when they sit in the room alone, and that's what we are trying to prevent.

There's a Christian college in northern Florida ... Pensacola Christian College. Should be called Christian Prison, rather than a college, since it's uncredited to begin with. But here's their idea of Christian purity:

Quote:

Of Pensacola's many rules, those dealing with male-female relationships are the most talked about. There are restrictions on when and where men and women may speak to each other. Some elevators and stairwells may be used only by women; others may be used only by men. Socializing on particular benches is forbidden. If a man and a woman are walking to class, they may chat; if they stop en route, though, they may be in trouble. Generally men and women caught interacting in any "unchaperoned area" — which is most of the campus — could be subject to severe penalties.

Those rules extend beyond the campus. A man and a woman cannot go to an off-campus restaurant together without a chaperon (usually a faculty member). Even running into members of the opposite sex off campus can lead to punishment. One student told of how a group of men and a group of women from the college happened to meet at a McDonald's last spring. Both groups were returning from the beach (they had gone to separate beaches; men and women are not allowed to be at the beach together). The administration found out, and all 15 students were expelled.

Even couples who are not talking or touching can be reprimanded. Sabrina Poirier, a student at Pensacola who withdrew in 1997, was disciplined for what is known on the campus as "optical intercourse" — staring too intently into the eyes of a member of the opposite sex. This is also referred to as "making eye babies." While the rule does not appear in written form, most students interviewed for this article were familiar with the concept.

I think that certainly it becomes a culture of "Christian policing" rather than understanding and Love.

I personally think that if we stopped obsessing about sex and the "dangers of it" and dedicated more time talking frankly about it, it would be much lesser problem for our youth.

There are many aspects of human sexuality that church just glides over and skips to the "sex outside of marriage is wrong" part.

Some go as far as thinking that it's wrong to be aroused by a beautiful women/men ... thus we put enormous amount of guilt on young people for doing something they can't help doing.

[Stan]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

My wife and I occasionally dance at home.

Are you praising the Lord? Or are you preparing vertically for what you want to do horizontally?

Psalm 150 states that dancing as a form of praise to God is not only possible, but encouraged. From records of dancing in the Bible, we may reasonably conclude that the Bible authors were not referring to couples' dancing. Yet there is no way I can derive from the Bible a prohibition of dancing such as you and your wife do at home.

Actually EGW suggested that men should dance more of that with their wives in the privacy of the own home.

[Dr. Shane]

It's ironic that by telling our youth what's sexual and what's not, we actually telling them how to think about women.

That is done by Hollywood and the entertainment industry and the church must counteract that. The reality is that when a boy likes a girl and dances close to her during a slow dance, his probability of walking away with an erection is very high. When a given activity causes a boy to have an erection, we typically say that is a form of sexual activity.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

There's a Christian college in northern Florida ... Pensacola Christian College. Should be called Christian Prison, rather than a college, since it's uncredited to begin with. But here's their idea of Christian purity:

Quote:

Of Pensacola's many rules, those dealing with male-female relationships are the most talked about. There are restrictions on when and where men and women may speak to each other. Some elevators and stairwells may be used only by women; others may be used only by men. Socializing on particular benches is forbidden. If a man and a woman are walking to class, they may chat; if they stop en route, though, they may be in trouble. Generally men and women caught interacting in any "unchaperoned area" — which is most of the campus — could be subject to severe penalties.

Those rules extend beyond the campus. A man and a woman cannot go to an off-campus restaurant together without a chaperon (usually a faculty member). Even running into members of the opposite sex off campus can lead to punishment. One student told of how a group of men and a group of women from the college happened to meet at a McDonald's last spring. Both groups were returning from the beach (they had gone to separate beaches; men and women are not allowed to be at the beach together). The administration found out, and all 15 students were expelled.

Even couples who are not talking or touching can be reprimanded. Sabrina Poirier, a student at Pensacola who withdrew in 1997, was disciplined for what is known on the campus as "optical intercourse" — staring too intently into the eyes of a member of the opposite sex. This is also referred to as "making eye babies." While the rule does not appear in written form, most students interviewed for this article were familiar with the concept.

LOL Shades of Adventist academies back when I was in school...

[Tom Wetmore]

That is exactly what popped into my mind too!

Add to the "optical intercourse" idea the no open-toed shoes or bare feet rule since boys get turned on by seeing toes and bare feet of girls. (I think that girl's dean had a foot fetish herself...)

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: fccool

It's ironic that by telling our youth what's sexual and what's not, we actually telling them how to think about women.

That is done by Hollywood and the entertainment industry and the church must counteract that. The reality is that when a boy likes a girl and dances close to her during a slow dance, his probability of walking away with an erection is very high. When a given activity causes a boy to have an erection, we typically say that is a form of sexual activity.

It takes far less than that to induce an erection in most adolescent boys...

[Bravus]

Apparently a warm breeze is a form of sexual activity...

[fccool]

The reality is that when a boy likes a girl and dances close to her during a slow dance, his probability of walking away with an erection is very high. When a given activity causes a boy to have an erection, we typically say that is a form of sexual activity.

I highly doubt that most of them would walk away with erection simply by dancing with a girl. I never did.

On the other side of things, they do wake up with erection whether they've been dancing or not. Do you consider that a form of sexual activity? How do you suggest they avoid that :)

[karl]

It is the spirit of the age to despise restraint, to desire to follow inclination, to jest and joke and be jolly in amusement with young ladies; and the result has been wrecks of character, encouragement to impurity, licentiousness, immorality, and marriages which have ruined the usefulness and efficiency of men and women who had ability and talents, but who have been unable to rise to any noble heights after their unwise marriages. . . . {11MR 154.1}

They [certain school administrators] cannot see any harm in the young people's being in one another's society, paying attention to each other, flirting, courting, marrying and giving in marriage. This is the main engrossment of this time with the worldlings, and genuine Christians will not follow their example, but will come out from all these things and be separate. {11MR 154.2}

In our sanitarium, our college, our offices of publication, and in every mission, the strictest rules must be enforced. Nothing can so effectually demoralize these institutions, and our missions, as the want of prudence and watchful reserve in the association of young men and young women.--Ms. 4a, 1885, pp. 30, 33. ("Counsel to Physicians and Medical Students," July 27, 1885.)

[ClubV12]

Now I gotta add dancing to my list of research items? I guess. I'll file that next to Christmas trees and wedding rings.

You guys (and gals) know about the "bicycle" counsel I suppose? The principal, expensive "toys", was like a breath of fresh air to me and helped me resolve an issue I had been struggling with for some time. I found it was spot on in my case and came just when I needed it. I don't plan to go dancing anytime soon, so I think I'm OK there.

Actually, I'm sure these are some serious issues and I don't take them lightly. But in my current learning schedule, there not close to the top of my list of research items. Maybe next year...

[Dr. Shane]

I highly doubt that most of them would walk away with erection simply by dancing with a girl.

[Dr. Shane]

Apparently a warm breeze is a form of sexual activity...

Now I know why you left Canada. Those warm Australian breezes must blow in a lot of tourists if they have that kind of effect.

[fccool]

Quote:

If they want to avoid that they can set an alarm for the middle of the night, get up and urinate. The morning erection is caused by a full bladder. That is a biological function.

Jury's out on that one, but it's a possibility. The problem is of course the repeating phenomenon with bladder that's not full, which lead many to believe that it's a faulty correlation.

[Woody]

Quote:

If they want to avoid that they can set an alarm for the middle of the night, get up and urinate. The morning erection is caused by a full bladder. That is a biological function.

Jury's out on that one, but it's a possibility. The problem is of course the repeating phenomenon with bladder that's not full, which lead many to believe that it's a faulty correlation.

Erection or no erection. Erection discussions need to be erected in the health forums and not the Townhall.

[fccool]

Woody ... here's how we landed here. Dancing. ...... leads to ...... erection ))))))

[Woody]

Woody ... here's how we landed here. Dancing. ...... leads to ...... erection ))))))

Oh. I see. Thanks for explaining how it got erected. :)

[JawgeFromJawja]