Slippery slope? Where will it stop?

[JawgeFromJawja]

Dear me. A blithe discussion of dancing on a basically conservative forum of largely religious participants.

When I was a youth, we Baptists didn't dance, play cards,gamble, attend movies, and a buncha other things that are now common for all denominations.

Jawge.

Drowsy but can't sleep.

[Dr. Shane]

The morning erection is part of the generalized response to REM sleep. The full bladder has nothing to do with it.

My urologist disagrees with you. After my vasectomy I was instructed not to have an erection for three days. To prevent this, I was to set my alarm for the middle of the night, get up and urinate. It seemed to work. I didn't wake up with an erection when I did that. He stated there is a nerve that causes an erection in healthy males when pressure is applied on it. A full bladder applies such pressure. It is a neurological reaction.

Of course slow dancing with a girl one is attracted to and fond of doesn't always cause an erection. Hand and oral stimulation do not always cause erection either but few would argue those are not sexual - with the exception of Bill Clinton. In the recovery groups I have attended for the past 25 years we have had many dances. I cannot recall of ever having an erection when slow dancing with a woman I was not attracted to or fond of. However I can recall having had an erection while slow dancing with girls I was attracted to and fond of. Others may laugh about it but I am the real deal. I am being honest. The qualifier is the dancing was slow - there were two bodies pressed against each other, moving back and forth on the dance floor. I never once experienced an erection while fast dancing. I think fast dancing is good exercise and social activity.

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: GeorgeK

The morning erection is part of the generalized response to REM sleep. The full bladder has nothing to do with it.

My urologist disagrees with you. After my vasectomy I was instructed not to have an erection for three days. To prevent this, I was to set my alarm for the middle of the night, get up and urinate. It seemed to work. I didn't wake up with an erection when I did that. He stated there is a nerve that causes an erection in healthy males when pressure is applied on it. A full bladder applies such pressure. It is a neurological reaction.

Of course slow dancing with a girl one is attracted to and fond of doesn't always cause an erection. Hand and oral stimulation do not always cause erection either but few would argue those are not sexual - with the exception of Bill Clinton. In the recovery groups I have attended for the past 25 years we have had many dances. I cannot recall of ever having an erection when slow dancing with a woman I was not attracted to or fond of. However I can recall having had an erection while slow dancing with girls I was attracted to and fond of. Others may laugh about it but I am the real deal. I am being honest. The qualifier is the dancing was slow - there were two bodies pressed against each other, moving back and forth on the dance floor. I never once experienced an erection while fast dancing. I think fast dancing is good exercise and social activity.

Lemme get back to this after over a month, Shane. You need to understand it for later reference. I suspect you misinterpreted your urologist. Erections are related to REM sleep, full bladder or not. However, following your urologist's instructions, you would have interrupted the REM sleep cycle, thus tending to prevent erections.

JawgeFromJawja

[Dr. Shane]

I suspect you misinterpreted your urologist.

No. I don't think so. He explained that there is a nerve that is pressed on by a full badder that results in an erection. Perhaps he is wrong, perhaps the author of the textbook he was taught out of was wrong or perhaps your information is wrong. I have discovered that if I urinate before going to sleep and don't drink a lot of liquid before bedtime, I rarely wake up with an erection. So it seems to me my doctor was right. But that is just my experience.

It really doesn't matter as far as our discussion here goes. My point was that a boy slow dancing with a girl he is attracted to can, and often does, cause an erection. Fccool was trying to dismiss that point by pointing out that a man can wake up with an erection so some activity causing an erection cannot be a gauge for determining if it qualifies as a sexual activity.

I disagree. I have slow danced with girls I was attracted to. We embraced. We held each other closely. Our bodies were in full contact with each other. I could smell her perfume and the shampoo she used to wash her hair. To pretend that slow dancing is not a type of sexual foreplay is to simply be willfully ignorant. I have no problem with having "Christian" dances where the type of dancing is non-contact or minimal contact like square dancing, country line dancing or fast dancing. However if we are going to send our youth out on the dance floor to slow dance with each other we ought to provide them condoms on their way out the door.

[fccool]

I think your point that erection is somehow wrong... is without any base. You made slow dancing to be a "sexual activity", when in reality it's far from it. We are attracted to women, and sure we can get an erection, but there's nothing wrong with this at all. I think you are trying to twist it into something it's not.

[Parade Orange]

its getting hot in here

[fans self]

[fccool]

:)

[Planey]

[fans self]

This often has the added advantage of cooling down the person next to self.

Graeme

[fccool]

Actually, by fanning you'd make the room more hot, since you are getting read of excess heat via evaporation.

[Gail]

You guys still talking about this? Haven't you got it out of your system yet?

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: JawgeFromJawja

I suspect you misinterpreted your urologist.

No. I don't think so. He explained that there is a nerve that is pressed on by a full badder that results in an erection. Perhaps he is wrong, perhaps the author of the textbook he was taught out of was wrong or perhaps your information is wrong. I have discovered that if I urinate before going to sleep and don't drink a lot of liquid before bedtime, I rarely wake up with an erection. So it seems to me my doctor was right. But that is just my experience.

It really doesn't matter as far as our discussion here goes. My point was that a boy slow dancing with a girl he is attracted to can, and often does, cause an erection. Fccool was trying to dismiss that point by pointing out that a man can wake up with an erection so some activity causing an erection cannot be a gauge for determining if it qualifies as a sexual activity.

I disagree. I have slow danced with girls I was attracted to. We embraced. We held each other closely. Our bodies were in full contact with each other. I could smell her perfume and the shampoo she used to wash her hair. To pretend that slow dancing is not a type of sexual foreplay is to simply be willfully ignorant. I have no problem with having "Christian" dances where the type of dancing is non-contact or minimal contact like square dancing, country line dancing or fast dancing. However if we are going to send our youth out on the dance floor to slow dance with each other we ought to provide them condoms on their way out the door.

For the most part, I agree with this post. Furthermore, we both may be right about the dynamics of erection during sleep.

REM sleep definitely triggers physical sexual response. The accompanying dream may not be sexual at all. For instance, you may simply dream about being on fire, or about a very sumptuous meal.

You need to avoid bringing up the subject of dreams with me. The study of dreams is one of my favorite hobbies. Not to mention that stories of dreams are common in both the Old and New Testaments. Get me started, and I don't easily stop. If you are interested in REM phenomena and the study of dreams, I recommend the easy to read book Creative Dreaming by Patricia Garfield, PhD.

Your posts bring up many beautiful memories. My wife is an accomplished ballroom dancer. She has won multiple prizes from Fred Astaire Dance Studios. Such would have been unheard of in SDA circles a generation ago, but none of our contemporary SDA church friends or family have objected. She is poetry in motion.

When I dance with my wife, it is definitely NOT foreplay, the reason being that I feel so intimidated dancing with such a pretty and talented woman that my anxiety level shoots through the ceiling. Sex, either consciously or unconsciously, gets placed on the coolest back burner. Of course, I dunno about her thoughts.

JawgeFromJawja

[CoAspen]

[John317]

If they want to avoid that they can set an alarm for the middle of the night, get up and urinate. The morning erection is caused by a full bladder. That is a biological function.

Very true.

[John317]

Fred Astaire Dance Studios. Such would have been unheard of in SDA circles a generation ago, but none of our contemporary SDA church friends or family have objected.

No doubt true but that's not saying much, is it? Is the church better off and more in harmony with God today than before?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You guys still talking about this? Haven't you got it out of your system yet?

see where the male mind goes?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

its getting hot in here

[fans self]

for Parade Orange (maybe you could use it as your avatar :

[Parade Orange]

lol

[fccool]

Quote:

Is the church better off and more in harmony with God today than before?

I doubt it has to do with dancing and drinking coffee.

[ClubV12]

I wouldn't under estimate the power of seemingly meaningless issues to come in and wreck havoc in an institution.

You can't see termites, but they do some serious damage.

[Dr. Shane]

I think there is a fine line where we have to be careful about making mountains out of mole hills. Adventists often accuse other Adventists of majoring in minors. I typically see that as an inflammatory accusation used maliciously. However there is a bit of truth to it in that sometimes there are busy bodies that are not doing anything to advance the gospel or help their community but will not pass up the opportunity to make a mountain out of a mole hill with a member they have not formed a personal friendship with.

[ClubV12]

Well Shane, thats why it's called a "slippery slope". :)

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: JawgeFromJawja

Fred Astaire Dance Studios. Such would have been unheard of in SDA circles a generation ago, but none of our contemporary SDA church friends or family have objected.

No doubt true but that's not saying much, is it? Is the church better off and more in harmony with God today than before?

In one word, yes. As Church members loosen the spiritually restricting fetters of don't s, shan't s, and shouldn't s, we are freer to grow personally and to appreciate God more.

Jesus told us that his burden is light. Lighten up!

Best regards,

JawgeFromJawja

[whatisthis]

Here's some verses about our strength in our struggle:

Psa 51 This Psalm is entitled: To the chief Musician. A Psalm of David; when Nathan the prophet came to him, after he had gone in to Bath-sheba.

Be gracious unto me, O God, according to thy loving-kindness; according to the abundance of thy tender mercies, blot out my transgressions. Wash me fully from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions, and my sin is continually before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done what is evil in thy sight; that thou mayest be justified when thou speakest, be clear when thou judgest. Behold, in iniquity was I brought forth, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou wilt have truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden part thou wilt make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear gladness and joy; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not the spirit of thy holiness from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and let a willing spirit sustain me. I will teach transgressors thy ways, and sinners shall return unto thee. Deliver me from blood-guiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. Lord, open my lips, and my mouth shall declare thy praise. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion; build the walls of Jerusalem. Then shalt thou have sacrifices of righteousness, burnt-offering, and whole burnt-offering; then shall they offer up bullocks upon thine altar.

And this is what God said about David, years after his heartbroken psalm:

1Ki 14:7 Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith Jehovah the God of Israel: Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel, and rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee; and thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do only that which is right in my sight;

Eze 18:21, 22 And the wicked, if he turn from all his sins which he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do judgment and justice, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. None of his transgressions which he hath committed shall be remembered against him; in his righteousness which he hath done shall he live.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as *he* is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

Heb 8:10-12 Because this is the covenant that I will covenant to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: Giving my laws into their mind, I will write them also upon their hearts; and I will be to them for God, and *they* shall be to me for people. And they shall not teach each his fellow-citizen, and each his brother, saying, Know the Lord; because all shall know me in themselves, from the little one among them unto the great among them. Because I will be merciful to their unrighteousnesses, and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will never remember any more.

Eph 1:7-9 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of offences, according to the riches of his grace; which he has caused to abound towards us in all wisdom and intelligence, having made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself

Isa 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Isa 43:25 --I, I am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and I will not remember thy sins.

Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

2Co 1:9 But we ourselves had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not have our trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead; who has delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver; in whom we confide that he will also yet deliver;

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come; he that will, let him take the water of life freely.

Amo 5:8 seek him that made the Pleiades and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night; that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: Jehovah is his name.

Joh 14:27 I leave peace with you; I give *my* peace to you: not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it fear.

Eph 3:17-21 that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God. But to him that is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or think, according to the power which works in us, to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen).

Php 2:12, 13 So that, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure.

Php 1:5, 6 because of your fellowship with the gospel, from the first day until now; having confidence of this very thing, that he who has begun in you a good work will complete it unto Jesus Christ's day:

Psa 23:6 Surely, goodness and loving-kindness shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of Jehovah for the length of the days.

(the words "follow me" in this verse are a Hebrew word which is translated "pursue" in Genesis 14:14, Joshua 10:19, and 1 Samuel 25:29, it is an aggressive pursuit, a chase, a hunt, a putting to flight--even a persecuting pursuit! God will not easily give up!)

Eph 1:3, 4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ; according as he has chosen us in him before the world's foundation, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love;

2Pe 1:10, 11 Wherefore the rather, brethren, use diligence to make your calling and election sure, for doing these things ye will never fall; for thus shall the entrance into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ be richly furnished unto you.

2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word made surer, to which ye do well taking heed (as to a lamp shining in an obscure place) until the day dawn and the morning star arise in your hearts;

1Pe 1:3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to his great mercy, has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance, reserved in the heavens for you, who are kept guarded by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye exult, for a little while at present, if needed, put to grief by various trials, that the proving of your faith, much more precious than of gold which perishes, though it be proved by fire, be found to praise and glory and honour in the revelation of Jesus Christ:

1Sa 25:29 And if a man is risen up to pursue thee and to seek thy life, the soul of my lord shall be bound in the bundle of the living with Jehovah thy God; and the souls of thine enemies, them shall he sling out from the hollow of the sling.

(On that one, remember that the real enemy is Satan, and he's after our very life with his temptations! But we have a protector who is bound heart-to-heart with us.)

1Pe 5:8-11 Be vigilant, watch. Your adversary the devil as a roaring lion walks about seeking whom he may devour. Whom resist, stedfast in faith, knowing that the selfsame sufferings are accomplished in your brotherhood which is in the world. But the God of all grace who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, when ye have suffered for a little while, himself shall make perfect, stablish, strengthen, ground: to him be the glory and the might for the ages of the ages. Amen.

Now, here's David's song of dedication for God's house, and wasn't that sung as one of the last songs of his life?

Psa 30:1-5 A Psalm of David: dedication-song of the house:

I will extol thee, Jehovah; for thou hast delivered me, and hast not made mine enemies to rejoice over me. Jehovah my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. Jehovah, thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol, thou hast quickened me from among those that go down to the pit. Sing psalms unto Jehovah, ye saints of his, and give thanks in remembrance of his holiness. For a moment is passed in his anger, a life in his favour; at even weeping cometh for the night, and at morn there is rejoicing.

What a wonderful Shepherd we have!

[whatisthis]

Hope I didn't put these verses on the wrong post, but I just thought that a slippery slope is one where we don't know how much we are loved by God, and have help from Him! Maybe I posted these verses to the wrong place, though. Sorry if I did.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Is the church better off and more in harmony with God today than before?

I doubt it has to do with dancing and drinking coffee.

"So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."1 Corinthians 10:31 NLT

"He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much."Luke 16:10 NKJV

God blesses!