Gospel Truth?

[SivartM]

[This is something that I wrote today; it's kind of long. I have this odd idea of sending something to a magazine someday, so if you think this might be good let me know.]

Gospel Truth?

What on earth is the gospel? Everyone I ask seems to have an at least slightly different answer. When I was little, if you loved Jesus, you would go to heaven. When I was a little older I had to invite Jesus into my heart. When I was older I had to confess and repent of my sins. Later I learned that I was supposed to "die to self". Along the way I discovered that I was supposed to be treading a very tiny invisible line between "grace" and "works" (which means that we are saved by doing nothing, but when we are saved we have to do something or else we weren't saved to begin with and...).

I still have no idea what's going on.

I mean, I know I'm only 17. I'm not supposed to know everything yet (judging from everyone else's confidence, though, I should get there in a few years). But it seems like every time someone comes up with a concise definition of "gospel", someone has to add another biblical revelation or personal insight. I respect all of these aspects of the gospel, but somewhere I got the idea that it was supposed to be simple as A-B-C.

Of course nobody would say that they know everything about the gospel. It seems, though, that many people act as if they do. Take the Protestant Reformation; the ideas which came out of it are accepted by most Christians now, but when those ideas were born (rather, revived after several hundred years' slumber), they were terrible heresies, according to the established church. The same attitude is around today. We can't burn people at the stake anymore, but it seems that burning people with words (what on the internet we call "flaming") is a common response to "heretical" views of the gospel.

I'm not arguing here against traditional views of the gospel or for any particular "new" views. But perhaps when we are so caught up in dismissing other people's view of the gospel as heretical and unbiblical, we are missing out on a great insight. Of course, some really are just silly. I wouldn't believe someone who told me that the gospel meant that we can do whatever we want and still live eternally (by the way, most Christians don't believe this, contrary to Adventist legend). But one person who keeps sending me quotes about the "merits of Christ" (what am I supposed to do, chant the word "merits" like a mantra all day?) may seem silly, but maybe God is trying to tell me something about his merits that will enhance my view of the gospel.

I suppose my point is that there is no point in being dogmatic about a precise definition of the gospel because, in doing so, we cut ourselves off from anything new. We might as well insist that we know everything so don't bother telling me your ideas because I have two proof texts for that, you know, and why don't you go read this obscure scholarly paper? I think there was a parable about someone who brought out things both new and old from his attic (or something like that). Perhaps we could try to better balance the old and the new ideas about the gospel, while still keeping our eyes on the Bible, but not stubbornly sticking to the tried and (true?).

[pnattmbtc]

I think the Gospel is that God is like Jesus Christ.

[SivartM]

My point exactly. Everyone thinks the gospel is something and it's always different.

[Tom Wetmore]

As my signature line says, "Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth."

[pnattmbtc]

My point exactly. Everyone thinks the gospel is something and it's always different.

Of course, "Gospel" simply means "Good News." There's a lot of Good News that God has communicated to us. As to what we think is Good News (why it's always different), that depends upon what we think the problem is. I think the primary problem is that God has been misunderstood, and is conceived to be far different than He really is.

Tom's point that forgiveness is always good news is certainly true. I think this comes under the heading of God's being like Jesus Christ. If we perceive God as forgiveness personified (to quote A. G. Maxwell), as Christ portrayed Him, it's not difficult to perceive the good news of forgiveness.

[fccool]

I think that Gospel is in fact that God IS LOVE as per :

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

If we substitute love with God in this passage then it should read:

God is patient, God is kind. God does not envy, God does not boast, God is not proud. God is not rude, God is not self-seeking, God is not easily angered, God keeps no record of wrongs. God does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. God always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

The sad thing is that we don't really believe it. And it's Satan's lie to believe in a version of God that is contrary to the above. Yet, from overwhelming majoring of pulpits today... we teach that God is not the reflection of the above...

We in fact believe that God is not patient, that God is not kind, God is jealous, God is rude, God has a rock-star personality that demands our constant praise and worship and obedience (selfish... although we contradict by saying that He's not), we believe that God only protects when we obey, that He keeps the long lists of wrong we done in Heaven, and that God does not persevere... that He turns His back when we make too many mistakes.

So, we behave in like manner... we treat each other in like manner, and our Evangelism is likewise in like manner... when we are dropping leaflets, when we invite people to dinner, or to "Evangelism meetings" which really should be called "Eschatology 601" .... when we advertise God for the sole purpose of filling the pews.

In effect, Christ is the ultimate expression of God's LOVE. You can likewise substitute love for Christ in that passage and you'll get the same results.

I think that ultimately it boils down to a question as to why God created the universe with sentient free-will beings?

The answer that religion peddles is "God want us for worship and obedience". It's a half-truth, or a lie.

I say that God created us BECAUSE LOVE NATURALLY NEEDS EXPRESSION. Likewise, Gospel is EXPRESSION OF GOD'S LOVE. You can't love if there's nothing to love . It's not to say that God needs us in any way, but we are natural expression of His love.

Any religious dogmas should be weighed in light of the Gospel of God's love. It's not fear that does the transformation. Only love can do it, and that's the reality that is understood by kids, but is hidden from the "wise men"

[pnattmbtc]

I agree, SivartM.

You can say the Gospel is, "God is Love." I agree completely with this. However, "love" is rather vague. You helped a lot by giving it a context, by quoting 1 Cor. 13. I think another way of helping understand what love is is by considering Jesus Christ. Indeed, without Christ, I don't think we could understand it. That's why I put things the way I did.

Excellent points you made. Especially:

Quote:

We in fact believe that God is not patient, that God is not kind, God is jealous, God is rude, God has a rock-star personality that demands our constant praise and worship and obedience (selfish... although we contradict by saying that He's not), we believe that God only protects when we obey, that He keeps the long lists of wrong we done in Heaven, and that God does not persevere... that He turns His back when we make too many mistakes.

Completely unlike Christ, isn't it?

[fccool]

The "vagueness" of love is due to what we accustomed love to be.

Have you ever done something unconditional for someone and they would not accept it believing that there's a "catch"? I don't believe that God acts that way. We naturally want to do something back... to repay in some way to deserve what He gives. Thus we tend to behave that way. We proceed with developing a culture that revolves around "worship" rather than a culture that revolves around the same concept of love that we receive... which is the true worship.

Think about it, that's where all of the "death of Christ" makes sense. The death of Christ perhaps physically happened on the cross, but it's the nature of God to be dead to self and literally "fill" other. Thus God's true life is by living in us through His expression of His love, thus God literally lives in us. Thus the best way we can please God is by first being happy (God hates it when we are miserable), and by loving one another. That's any parent's dream. It's about relationship. Children will naturally tell other Children how cool their dad is. They would not be ashamed to do it either.

I think that to a certain degree, we are uncomfortable with telling people about God... it's because deep down inside we don't like the version of God that we portray in our version of Gospel.

[wayfinder]

Gospel truth is, salvation comes to those who are in the kingdom of God.

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.

The two sides are preparing for a great war/tribulation. On one side, God is preparing His kingdom with the truth, on the other side, Satan is preparing his kingdom with lies disquised as truth.

Revelation 12:17 NAS

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus

The commandments of God are the covenant of His kingdom (the Ten Commandments). The testimony of Jesus is the truth eg. "if you abide in My word...and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" (John 8:31,32)

The Lamb purchased this kingdom of God, with His blood. When we have been purchased we are no longer free, but are a bondservant of the one who purchased us.

Revelation 5:9 NAS

And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals ; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

Revelation 1:1 NAS

[The Revelation of Jesus Christ] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place ; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

In the last days there is a woman, who calls herself a prophetess, who is teaching and leading the bondservants of the Lamb astray.

Revelation 2:20 NAS

'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Why is the kingdom of God "given over" to the evil one(horn), it is on account of transgression, not the transgression of the kingdom of God, but the kingdom of the world(evil one).

Daniel 8:12 NAS

And on account of transgression the host will be given over to the horn along with the regular sacrifice; and it will fling truth to the ground and perform its will and prosper

Daniel 11:30 NAS

"For ships of Kittim will come against him; therefore he will be disheartened and will return and become enraged at the holy covenant and take action ; so he will come back and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant

The holy covenant is the kingdom of God. When the kingdom of God triumphs over the kingdom of the evil one, the Ark of the covenant(of the kingdom of God) appears in the Most Holy Place in the temple in heaven.

Revelation 11:19 NAS

And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened ; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm

This is the gospel truth.

[teresaq]

[This is something that I wrote today; it's kind of long. I have this odd idea of sending something to a magazine someday, so if you think this might be good let me know.]...

yeah, its pretty good.

i also appreciate the comments it sparked.

[Woody]

Good Work SivartM

[Gerr]

Of course! The gospel is as simple as abc!

A = Jesus loves you, and if you love Jesus, you'll go to heaven.

B = If you love Jesus you are to repent and confess your sins.

C = If you are truely repentant, then you are to die to self/sin.

D = _________________. :)

[pnattmbtc]

I think the Gospel is primarily about God.

[Gerr]

Good News is no news unless a person responds to it.

[pnattmbtc]

The news is still the same. It just doesn't have the impact on the person hearing it that it might have.

For example, when the emancipation proclamation was signed, the government sent agents to proclaim the good news that the slaves had been freed. This was still good news, even if the recipient of the message chose not to believe it or act upon it.

[Gerr]

Jesus: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

[Gerr]

The news is still the same. It just doesn't have the impact on the person hearing it that it might have.

For example, when the emancipation proclamation was signed, the government sent agents to proclaim the good news that the slaves had been freed. This was still good news, even if the recipient of the message chose not to believe it or act upon it.

Peace was declared in 1945 when Japan surrendered. It was broadcast by print and the airwaves. It didn't do Second Lt. Onoda any good because he did not believe it. Oh, it was good news to the rest of the world. He carried on a guerilla warfare until 1972. That's when the good news REALLY became GOOD NEWS.

[Robert]

Of course! The gospel is as simple as abc!

A = Jesus loves you, and if you love Jesus, you'll go to heaven.

B = If you love Jesus you are to repent and confess your sins.

C = If you are truely repentant, then you are to die to self/sin.

D = _________________. :)

Those are the fruits of the gospel. Making the above the gospel is the same gospel the Judaizers taught. The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity 2000 years ago, period. The minute you add to Christ's completed work (of which the NT Sabbath points) you have perverted the gospel and are in line with the man of sin.

[Robert]

Good News is no news unless a person responds to it.

False....You owe your very existence to God. If God, through Christ, had not redeemed you in Himself there would have been no Gerry to accept the gospel. See Romans chapter 5.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

p:The news is still the same. It just doesn't have the impact on the person hearing it that it might have.

For example, when the emancipation proclamation was signed, the government sent agents to proclaim the good news that the slaves had been freed. This was still good news, even if the recipient of the message chose not to believe it or act upon it.

G:Peace was declared in 1945 when Japan surrendered. It was broadcast by print and the airwaves. It didn't do Second Lt. Onoda any good because he did not believe it. Oh, it was good news to the rest of the world. He carried on a guerilla warfare until 1972. That's when the good news REALLY became GOOD NEWS.

The good news was that the war was over. That news was true regardless of whether the fellow believed it or not, and it was still good news, regardless of whether he believed it or not. The quality of the news is not dependent upon the hearer of the news, but upon its content.

As to whether the news did the fellow any good, I'm not sure where he was, but one could argue that it did do him good because no one was trying to kill him. If the war had really been continuing, it's quite possible he would have been killed.

[Gerr]

Again, my point: The Good News is no news to those who hear until accepted by them. In fact, the Good News becomes bad news to those who reject it, because NOW they are accountable!

BTW, Lt. Onoda COULD have been killed during that time. (Google Lt. Onoda, last Japanese to surrender in the Philippines). He had several skirmishes with the Philippine Army, during which time two of his fellow soldiers were killed.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Those are the fruits of the gospel. Making the above the gospel is the same gospel the Judaizers taught. The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity 2000 years ago, period. The minute you add to Christ's completed work (of which the NT Sabbath points) you have perverted the gospel and are in line with the man of sin.

What Jesus did 2000 yrs ago would mean nothing to anyone today UNLESS they accept it TODAY!

[Woody]

Whether they accept it or not ... does not change the fact that we were saved 2,000 years ago. It was God's plan to save us ... before the foundations of the world.

It's a done deal.

[SivartM]

I think this thread so far perfectly illustrates my original point...

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Again, my point: The Good News is no news to those who hear until accepted by them. In fact, the Good News becomes bad news to those who reject it, because NOW they are accountable!

Again, what makes the Good News good is its content. Not whether someone hears it or not, or how they respond to it.

Quote:

What Jesus did 2000 yrs ago would mean nothing to anyone today UNLESS they accept it TODAY!

Many have this idea, but, in reality, all that we have we owe to Christ's sacrifice:

Quote:

Our Lord has said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. . . . For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55. This is true of our physical nature. To the death of Christ we owe even this earthly life. The bread we eat is the purchase of His broken body. The water we drink is bought by His spilled blood. Never one, saint or sinner, eats his daily food, but he is nourished by the body and the blood of Christ. The cross of Calvary is stamped on every loaf. It is reflected in every water spring. All this Christ has taught in appointing the emblems of His great sacrifice. The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family board becomes as the table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament. (DA 660)

We could correctly say that if a person choose to resist the drawing of God's revealed love through Christ, that such a person is not receiving all that God intended that He should receive. But it would still be the case that all the person had he owed to the death of Christ.