Gospel Truth?

[Gerr]

Quote:

Our Lord has said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. . . .

Did you get that? That life-giving blood/flesh is NO GOOD to anyone UNLESS drank or eaten!

[Gerr]

I think this thread so far perfectly illustrates my original point...

That's why you go to the Bible yourself and dig it out for yourself. Even the Bible presents the gospel truth in different ways.

To Mark it is: "...the Good News about Jesus Christ, the Son of God," Mk 1:1 NCV

To Jesus it was: "...the Good News about the kingdom of heaven," Mt 4:23 NCV

For Paul to the Corinthians it is: "I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said." 1 Cor 15:3,4 NLT

To the Romans it is: ".... the gospel of God, ....concerning his Son," Rom 1:1,4. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes...For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith." 1:16-17.

To the OT patriarchs & prophets it is: The Everlasting Covenant.

etc. etc.

[pnattmbtc]

Our Lord has said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. . . .

Did you get that? That life-giving blood/flesh is NO GOOD to anyone UNLESS drank or eaten!

[Gerr]

I am talking about the life that REALLY matters.

[SivartM]

The time during which you make the most important decisions of your entire life does not really matter?

[fccool]

Quote:

Did you get that? That life-giving blood/flesh is NO GOOD to anyone UNLESS drank or eaten!

And here's the problem with our approach to evangelism. You've summed it up better than I could in this sentence. We believe that unless person knows God through the Bible, their knowledge of God is worthless.

It's silly on many levels. I honestly believe that there are people on this planet who've never read the Bible, or heard of Christ... but they know God and practice His love.

Here's a question for you, Gerry. I'm not saying it reflects the reality, I merely asking your opinion. Please answer it honestly without trying to disprove it. I'm not preaching ecumenism, or universalism... just a hypothetic scenario.

How would you feel if you get to heaven and find out that there are Muslims, Buddhists, and Atheists there, along with Christians... and say you'll find people like Hitler and Osama there? How would it make you feel... honestly?

[pnattmbtc]

I am talking about the life that REALLY matters.

Of course a person has to accept Jesus Christ as a personal savior to be saved, but this is a far cry from saying that Christ's death is of no value unless you accept Him. That's a slap in the face to the work which Christ did.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Did you get that? That life-giving blood/flesh is NO GOOD to anyone UNLESS drank or eaten!

And here's the problem with our approach to evangelism. You've summed it up better than I could in this sentence. We believe that unless person knows God through the Bible, their knowledge of God is worthless.

Now I'd like to know how you derived that thought from what I said.

Aren't setting up a strawman to knock down?

ps

I've been in CA a lot longer than you. You can search the archives and you will NEVER find any posts of mine even hinting that ONLY SDAs or Christians will be in God's kingdom!

[Gerr]

The gospel is of no value to the person who refuses to accept it.

[Robert]

The gospel is of no value to the person who refuses to accept it.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned [i.e., "in Adam"]:-- 13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the trespass, so also [is] the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many. 16 And not as through one that sinned, [so] is the gift: for the judgment [came] of one unto condemnation, but the free gift [came] of many trespasses unto justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, [even] Jesus Christ. 18 So then as through one trespass [the judgment came] unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness [the free gift came] unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous. 20 And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: 21 that, as sin reigned in death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Gerry:The gospel is of no value to the person who refuses to accept it.

Of course a person has to accept Jesus Christ as a personal savior to be saved, but this is a far cry from saying that Christ's death is of no value unless you accept Him. That's a slap in the face to the work which Christ did.

[Robert]

Quote:

Gerry:The gospel is of no value to the person who refuses to accept it.

Of course a person has to accept Jesus Christ as a personal savior to be saved, but this is a far cry from saying that Christ's death is of no value unless you accept Him. That's a slap in the face to the work which Christ did.

18 So then as through one trespass [the judgment came] unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness [the free gift came] unto all men to justification of life.

The fact is the 2nd Adam took upon Himself our God abandonment (the 2nd death). Had God completely removed Himself from our fallen parents they would have ceased to exist because all life comes from the God as its source.

From the inception of our creation a plan was in place to save humanity if they fell. As soon as there was sin there was a Savior. Adam & Eve died the death that comes upon all men - our 1st death.

Hence all men have life because of the cross of Christ. However, this life is temporary and unless Christ is either accepted through direct or indirect revelation he/she will die their 2nd death.

[fccool]

I've been in CA a lot longer than you. You can search the archives and you will NEVER find any posts of mine even hinting that ONLY SDAs or Christians will be in God's kingdom!

Thank you for your clarification... yet I'd like to understand your point of "unless you drink the blood and eat the flesh" point as connected with the knowledge of the Gospel as related to salvation.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

I've been in CA a lot longer than you. You can search the archives and you will NEVER find any posts of mine even hinting that ONLY SDAs or Christians will be in God's kingdom!

Thank you for your clarification... yet I'd like to understand your point of "unless you drink the blood and eat the flesh" point as connected with the knowledge of the Gospel as related to salvation.

For those who have "known" Christ, unless His blood is drank & His flesh eaten, i.e. internalized, they have no life. It is not enough to just believe ABOUT Christ, and what He did 2000 yrs ago. What is important is what am I doing with Christ TODAY. "TODAY, if you hear His voice....." In Rom 2, Paul talks about gentiles/pagans who are doing by nature what the law requires because somehow the spirit of the law is written in their hearts by the same Spirit that is working in all men. Such people, never having heard the name of Christ, I believe will not be lost.

[Woody]

Those who have never heard the name of Christ ... will be judged by the merciful love of Jesus who knows the hearts of men and how they would have responded IF they had heard of Jesus and His Love.

[pnattmbtc]

Those who have never heard the name of Christ ... will be judged by the merciful love of Jesus who knows the hearts of men and how they would have responded IF they had heard of Jesus and His Love.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Those who have never heard the name of Christ ... will be judged by the merciful love of Jesus who knows the hearts of men and how they would have responded IF they had heard of Jesus and His Love.

I mostly agree with this. Here's what I agree with:

Quote:

Those who have never heard the name of Christ ... will be judged by the merciful love of Jesus who knows the hearts of men

I also agree that God knows how they would have responded if they had heard of Jesus and His Love, but that's irrelevant. What's relevant is how they will respond when they are taken to heaven. God knows that they will love Jesus and His principles, and be happy in heaven.

[skyblue888]

First, SivartM, it is a known fact that I have been the only one emphasizing the Gospel of the merits of Christ on this forum (not boasting) but I don't remember ever privately sending you quotes about the merits of Jesus except for what I have posted here. I may have invited you to my website but I don't recall if I have or not.

"The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC, but we don't understand it." E.G. White, Faith and Works, p.64.

On that same page we find a clear definition of it:

First let me quote this: "There seems to be a cloudy atmosphere that has gathered about the soul of man and that has shut in the mind. It is next to impossible to break through this atmosphere of doubt and unbelief. It is next to impossible to arouse his vital interests to that he may understand what he must do to be saved."

So the Gospel is about what man must do in order to be saved.

To the question, What must I do to be saved? The answer is the Gospel.

And what must the sinner do in order to be saved? The inspired answer, not speculation, is: "Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." Faith and Works, p.101.

Why? Because "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present before the Father in our behalf." Steps to Christ, p.36.

To accept this simple Gospel and to act upon it is just as simple as accepting the alphabet.

Thus we read, "Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers, p.93.

This is the Gospel and nothing else. Unless we make it our lifebusiness to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim, we CANNOT be saved!

This is what we must do to be saved. This is the only way the sinner can be saved.

As we look to Jesus and appropriate His merits by claiming them on a daily basis, the righteousness of Christ is brought into the life and it accomplishes everything for it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God and the Holy Spirit is given to be our Teacher (and who can teach like Him) and He teaches us all things pertaining to this life and the life that is to come. He opens the Word of God to our understanding as to everything we need to know, as it is written, "He shall teach you all things." John 14:26; 1 John 2:20,27.

God through Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit will teach us everything we need to know as long as we make it our lifebusiness to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim.

Here is the Gospel again in all its simplicity: "Faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided for sin." Faith and Works, p.101. "The only way to attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he--the sinner--can bring to God the merits of Christ." Faith and Works, p.101.

Then the works will take care of themselves. "We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa. Let the law take care of itself. Let us trust in the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. May God help us that our eyes be anointed with eyesalve that we may see." E.G. White, 1888 Materials, Vol.2, p.557.

So, if the sinner wants to be justified and sanctified and if he wants to "know" the "all things" of the Scriptures he must first and always come to God trusting wholly in the merits of His son and appropriate them to himself, by claiming them, moment by moment.

This is the Gospel according to righteousness, according to God's own idea of it, as revealed by His servant the prophet in 1888.

"As we acknowledge our appreciation of Christ's merits, fragrance is given to our intercessions. As we approach God throught the virtue of the Redeemer's merits, Christ places us close by His side, encircling us with His human arm while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite. He places His merits in the censor in our hands to encourage our petitions." E.G. White, Our Father Cares, p.120.

Thus it is written, "He has turned the merits of His sacrifice into prayer." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7, p.914.

For "The intercession of Christ in our behalf is that of presenting His divine merits in the offering of Himself to the Father as our Substitute and Surety; for He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions." Faith and Works, p.105.

The conclusion of the whole matter:

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

SivartM, Buddhists repeat their "mantras" day after day but these "mantras" do not avail with God for Buddha did not build upon the foundation that God has laid. "The merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the foundation of the Christian's faith." The Great Controversy, p.73. On page 74 we are told that this is the "true light".

Thus we read, "Works without faith are dead, and faith without works is dead. Works will never save us. It is the merits of Christ that will avail in our behalf." E.G. White, Faith and Works, p.48.

sky

[pnattmbtc]

Regarding conversion, to me the following is very clear:

Quote:

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175)

Regarding the Gospel in general, it seems to me that how we understand the Good News depends on what we perceive the problem to be. I perceive the primary problem to be misunderstanding God's character. The Gospel is Jesus' declaration, "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."

[Gerr]

No doubt there was a misunderstanding of God's character on the part of Adam and Eve. But the main problem was sin. They took Lucifer's word over that of God. Eve was deceived. Adam sinned with his eyes opened. Lucifer KNEW/UNDERSTOOD God's character. He sinned anyway.

So the main problem is, it seems to me, sIn. So the Good News is encapsulated in Jn 3:16.

[EaglesWings]

Salvation as refers to the justification is simple. It is a simple conversion of the heart done by Christ. It is our cooperation and acceptance also. But the conversion is Christ's work. Sanctification is also Christ's work, for without his continued perpetual work in us, we would be without deliverance from sin. God is looking for us to be climbing on the ladder of faith, growing daily. Conversion is a daily experience because of the sanctification. 2 Peter 1:4-11 states that there is a process that God performs in us that we are to participate in, not because we can perform it for ourselves, but because we act in faith when we let God's promises work for us. By turning to them when we are in doubt, lifting them up before the Father, by using the Word as the sword of the spirit, by putting on the full armour, we are equipped to fight the battle. God works out the victory because we act in faith, believing that he will deliver us in the spiritual battle. Spiritual battle is not easy, but it is a comparatively light burden wearing the yoke of Christ as compared to trying to "be good" without it.

[Guest]

Amen!!

[skyblue888]

See how our Father in Heaven has spoken to us and made the matter of salvation so easy that a child can understand it:

"As we acknowledge our appreciation of Christ's merits, fragrance is given to our intercessions. As we approach God through the virtue of the Redeemer's merits, Christ places us close by His side, encircling us with His human arm while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite. He puts His merits in the censor in our hands to encourage our petitions." Our Father Cares, p.120.

Read these words again and again until you know what you must do in order to be accepted of God and blessed with all the blessings of the Covenant of Grace.

Read these words praying that the Holy Spirit shall cause you to see these words as though they were tinged with gold.

sky

[skyblue888]

Now campare these two statements:

"The light of the glory of God shone upon our Representative; and this fact says that the glory of God may shine upon us. With His human arm Jesus encircled the race, and with His divine arm He grasped the throne of the Infinite, connecting man with God, earth with Heaven." 1 S.M.411.

"As we acknowledge our appreciation of Christ's merits, fragrance is given to our intercessions. As we approach God through the virtue of the Redeemer's merits, Christ places us close by His side, encircling us with His human arm while with His divine arm He grasps the throne of the Infinite. He puts His merits in the censor in our hands to encourage our petitions." Our Father Cares, p.120.

We acknowledge our appreciation of Christ's merits by appropriating them by faith and we appropriate them to ourselves by claiming them. We would not claim them unless we appreciated them and it is our privilege to claim them. The Lord has clearly told us that unless we do claim them, we cannot be saved.

"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

As we claim them by faith, Jesus places us close by His side, encircling us with His human arm while with His divine arm He graps the throne of the Infinite, connecting us with God, with Heaven!

Praise God for He is good and His mercy endures forever!

sky

[whatisthis]

Just had to share a beautiful quote about God's focus, and my thought on it, too.

"Every religion that wars against the sovereignty of God defrauds man of the glory which was his at the creation, and which is to be restored to him in Christ. Every false religion teaches its adherents to be careless of human needs, sufferings, and rights. The gospel places a high value upon humanity as the purchase of the blood of Christ, and it teaches a tender regard for the wants and woes of man. The Lord says, "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa 13:12" that's from Desire of Ages in the chapter on the Sabbath.

Preciousness! That's what God sees in us all. The Navajos express it by saying "Walk in beauty" -- beauty is what God wants for us, it's what we have the right to dare to feel, express, spread, be in-- the beauty of preciousness! The Sabbath is supposed to be the crescendo of the week because it frees the withered hand and heart to see beauty.

This paragraph in Desire was talking about how Jesus was angry with the Jews for not seeing that they could help animals on Sabbath but not people. He so much wants us to stretch our withered hearts and hands out in the freedom of true caring, of really understanding the joy of being special to Him! Our animals are so precious! As we see how intelligent and caring and lovely they are, and we understand that God wants us to care for them and at the same time respect and love each other with an even greater capacity as we do, it boggles the mind that so much preciousness could exist! But those Pharisees weren't caring toward animals and not people, I'll guess. I'll bet they treated animals as assets for their work that had to be treated efficiently because they were valuable monetarily. God wants us to see the picture of walking in the beauty of real caring that doesn't put price tags on loving.

Let's treat each other with at least as much respect and love and devotion as animals treat us with, and we'll grow closer to being one with Jesus-- who is the Gold that is more precious than gold of Ophir (wherever that was, but it must have been precious) and guilds us too. Gold is soft and smeary, He just smears us with His love--God himself has His arm around me and you and our enemies and friends (enemies are unconverted friends, lol, they need a little more love-watering) and our lives can be sort of full of romance even when we are alone, sq (smilin' quietly) because we aren't walking in beauty alone, never!

My Dad is single after many years of marriage. He misses being married. Several times when a full moon shone I pointed it out and he sighed, "What a waste of a full moon!" I asked him why and he said full moons are supposed to be experienced with a special someone. I know that it's fair for him to wish for someone special by his side, but I still think in Jesus that there really are no wasted full moons, or mornings when the sun's all golden in the high grass, or sunsets... no wasted unshared joys or tears.

Well that's all of my outburst, lol. Just catchin' the wave of peace to surf toward next Sabbath.

Love y'all, and still wish I could figure out how to post a pic or two on that site for photography.