Anyone else find themselves needing to move on?

[LifeHiscost]

"Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."1 Corinthians 10:12 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

i guess if we thought things were bad in the church before, we apparently aint seen nothing yet! looks like the sda version of the inquisition is coming into full force!

While there is some evidence of unholy effort to indicate your shock may not be totally misplaced, I'm not ready to put myself on the side of those who have a long track record of abuse against the saints.

"‘Father will be divided against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother;and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.’ ” " Luke 12:53 NLT

"...and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’"Matthew 10:36 NKJV

This doesn't say it will be believer against believer, but this below brings it closer to home.

"And one shall say to him, What are these wounds on your breast or between your hands? Then he will answer, Those with which I was wounded [when disciplined] in the house of my [loving] friends." Zechariah 13:6 AMP

brackets theirs LHC

Regards!!

[abelisle]

Lets not give them more 'publicity', as that is how they live. I think there are and have been such sites already existing, possibly more to come. Tis a fringe element that takes things out of context making the 'sly fox' smile.....even laugh outloud! It's really sad that people will focus on others rather than Christ. Whether or not the current President makes it easier or not for such groups to exist, I don't know. They have always been around in one form or another.

I agree with you but when these fringe groups have an official approval: "Seventh-day Adventist Church members, hold your leaders, pastors,local churches, educators, institutions and administrative organizations accountable to the highest standards of belief based on a literal understanding of Scripture."Ted Wilson's GC speech/sermon

So, if your understanding of the "literal understanding" of the Bible differs from one of these fringe group members, your feet will be held to the fire. And it's quite easy for this mindset to expand on the above statemennt to justify the most heinous and unChristlike actions.

Alex (savoring the idea of intradenominational persecution)

[aldona]

I can relate to everything you're saying. I have spent a lifetime feeling I do not belong in the SDA system and after working out a few years ago where I really did belong, about 2 years ago I was at the stage where I had started attending the local Quaker Meeting on Sunday (as well as the SDA church on Saturday). Definitely preparing to make the transition.

Then our choir started up, and I am needed to play piano and help organize, so I took this as a sign that for now I am to stay put.

That, and the reason that I actually value my connection to my husband, parents, brother & sister-in-law, and other friends and relatives in the Adventist system. And it doesn't matter how "open-minded" your Adventist friends and relatives think they are, it is inevitable that if you change denominations there will be fallout and relationships will be forever changed. At the moment I am not ready for this.

So I attend, throw myself into the music ministry (which is a real joy and has reawakened a lot of dormant talents, as well as improving the ones I was already using), stay right out of politics and avoid theological debate. (as my husband will tell you, my favorite comeback line to any upsetting or unpopular pronouncement from head office, or unfortunate event in church politics, is to say "It doesn't concern me in the slightest what the SDA church does, because I'm really a Quaker.")

So far I have not done anything that warrants disfellowshipping and until now there has been room in the SDA church for someone who eats (clean) meat, drinks coffee, does not regard EG White as infallible, questions some aspects of the 28 fundamentals, reads widely, hangs out with a wide range of people of all backgrounds and often takes views and positions that are way outside the box.

But for how much longer? After reading the other posts on this thread, I am half expecting to be reported to the Inquisition website.

If that happens - I invite my fellow "tares" to check out their nearest Quaker meeting after they have been "pulled out" - it matters less there what intellectual notions you subscribe to, than whether you have a living relationship with Christ and are open to the leading of the Holy Spirit, and expressing it in a life that shows love to your neighbor and strives to make your part of the community a better place.

AJ

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

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yes. the sda inquisition.

I don't know why, but I'm not very concerned about it.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i guess if we thought things were bad in the church before, we apparently aint seen nothing yet! looks like the sda version of the inquisition is coming into full force!

While there is some evidence of unholy effort to indicate your shock may not be totally misplaced, I'm not ready to put myself on the side of those who have a long track record of abuse against the saints.

im glad to hear that!! in reading your post it occurs to me that this is the time people will be showing whose character they truly cherish.

it looks like we will suffering in the sda church first what we will eventually suffer from the world.

[teresaq]

... Whether or not the current President makes it easier or not for such groups to exist, I don't know. They have always been around in one form or another.

the person i was referring to was not against the presidents speech, just had concerns as to what would happen as a result, even to eventually backfiring on the president himself. i see his point based on the "ultras" ive seen on these forums.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I'm not concerned. Unless "they" replace all your conference officials, things aren't likely to change wherever you are. And the people doing the voting in constituency meetings are still going to be the same people we the members select to send. I know they'd have to kick out just about all of my fellow church members to accomplish something like that in my own local church, because it just ain't gonna happen in my church otherwise.

Those kind are by far the minority, and I just can't see that fact changing just because we have a conservative GC president. The extremist fringe isn't going to take over, unless WE let them, no matter who sits as president way up there in the GC.

[cardw]

I think what the SDA church is looking at is the fact that 93% of the membership is now outside of industrialized countries. And since the church is a democratic institution, the conservative culture that formed the church outside the Western industrialized world is asserting it's view through it's sheer numbers.

I think you will continue to see a vast migration of North American Adventist intellectual culture out of the church.

These internal power struggles over creation theology and science, gay marriage, women's ordination, or whatever the latest perceived threat of apostasy is, appear to the outside world as trivia. Internally it appears to be the fulfillment of prophecy because the doomsayers have always been saying that "this" would happen.

This happens in every large organization, but ultimately there will be no persecution of Adventists over their peculiar doctrines simply because they are peculiar. They are so far out of the mainstream that most people's response to these issues is "huh?" Particularly the 7th day Sabbath. That is such a non-issue in the outside world. No one is going to risk persecuting the Jews in this country by passing a death penalty over worshipping on the Sabbath. It would be political suicide. It is so far out of the realm of possibility the SDA's perception that they are protecting the Sabbath deserves the question, "Protecting it from what?"

All of this is such a waste of human potential and creativity. It not much above any form of tabloid culture.

[lazarus]

So far I have not done anything that warrants disfellowshipping and until now there has been room in the SDA church for someone who eats (clean) meat, drinks coffee, does not regard EG White as infallible,

Sorry but word on the GC street is that coffee drinkers at the GC building have to find alternative beverages. I guess there will be designated coffee drinking areas in the parking lot.

[Bravus]

Will start another thread called 'Use Your Freedom/Identfify' that takes up some of the concerns of this one in a different way.

[olger]

We have been hijacked

Stan, may I ask by whom?

g

[LifeHiscost]

...in reading your post it occurs to me that this is the time people will be showing whose character they truly cherish.

it looks like we will suffering in the sda church first what we will eventually suffer from the world.

[cardw]

Quote:

It seems we need to keep our comments of a religious nature, even known to be from Jesus, devoid of any mention about sinful practices leading to unhealthy and/or dangerous consequences for fear of offending and being accused of discrimination or hate crimes.

I have a client who was talking to a very vocal anti-gay marriage Congressman on a plane about the issue of gay marriage. She told him that she would support his initiatives against gay marriage if he would write a bill that would ban divorce.

He turned red and told her that she would probably tell all her friends that he was a hypocrite since he had just divorced.

I ask Christians all the time which is a worse problem, gay marriage or divorce. I don't consider gay marriage a problem, but if we do consider them both problems clearly divorce is a far more prevalent problem and the Bible has far more to say about divorce than it does on homosexuality. And yet far more effort is put into the "problem" of homosexuality.

If we talked about divorced people the same way we talk about gay people I think you would alienate half the Christian church today. I'm sure there are those who would gladly condemn both with the same vitriol, but that simply serves to point out that Christianity promotes condemnation.

As far as I know Ellen White has nothing to say about gay rights being a part of the end time discrimination of SDAs.

The fact is the bulk of conversation around gay issues coming from Christians is hate speech. There are massive amounts of evidence showing it is dangerous to be gay in Christian communities. Christians tend to kill gay people just like they killed pagans, muslims, witches, Protestants, Catholics, heretics, and the list goes on and on.

In Europe, particularly with its history of the inquisition and hundreds of years of persecution by Christians, the issue of hate speech is far more sensitive since they have little desire to return to that theocratic violence.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

the Bible has far more to say about divorce than it does on homosexuality.

Are you sure about that?

Quote:

Christians tend to kill gay people just like they killed pagans, muslims, witches, Protestants, Catholics, heretics, and the list goes on and on.

Painting with quite a large brush, aren't you? I beg to differ with you. When was the last time Christians killed muslims or witches or even heretics in the name of Christianity? When was the last time muslims killed Christians? When was the last time witches killed Christians? (btw, I know a former witch who *did* kill Christians)...

[olger]

Divorce bad.

Homosexuality bad.

Obedience good.

[teresaq]

It seems we need to keep our comments of a religious nature, even known to be from Jesus, devoid of any mention about sinful practices leading to unhealthy and/or dangerous consequences for fear of offending and being accused of discrimination or hate crimes.

yeah, i agree. i dont remember when the last time was that i heard a sermon on pride, anger, disrespect, holier-than-thouness--or perhaps we just dont notice those things for what they are...

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

We have been hijacked

Stan, may I ask by whom?

g

Those that would have to ask such a question ... must be in fear. However ... the good news is that it's only the conservatives who believe in pointing fingers.

[Taylor]

Murder would of course be wrong, but that doesn't make the gay lifestyle right. It isn't discrimination to say that the lifestyle is wrong. What is discrimination is when they are treated unkindly because they are gay. They are still loved by God and he wants them to be saved and we must treat everyone with love, but that doesn't mean we condone their lifestyle.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

We have been hijacked

Originally Posted By: olger

Stan, may I ask by whom?

g

Originally Posted By: Woody

Those that would have to ask such a question ... must be in fear. However ... the good news is that it's only the conservatives who believe in pointing fingers.

I disagree with you Woody. I was wondering the same thing as og. But I'm not in fear.. btw, your response seems like pointing fingers, imho.

[LifeHiscost]

If we talked about divorced people the same way we talk about gay people I think you would alienate half the Christian church today. I'm sure there are those who would gladly condemn both with the same vitriol, but that simply serves to point out that Christianity promotes condemnation.

As far as I know Ellen White has nothing to say about gay rights being a part of the end time discrimination of SDAs.

The fact is the bulk of conversation around gay issues coming from Christians is hate speech. There are massive amounts of evidence showing it is dangerous to be gay in Christian communities. Christians tend to kill gay people just like they killed pagans, muslims, witches, Protestants, Catholics, heretics, and the list goes on and on.

In Europe, particularly with its history of the inquisition and hundreds of years of persecution by Christians, the issue of hate speech is far more sensitive since they have little desire to return to that theocratic violence.

While I have a tendency to agree with a certain measure of what you have described here, much to the shame of true Christianity, I would like to suggest the spiritual infiltration of the Way of Christ by professed believers is the cause, as opposed to true believers who still follow principles of love, even when they are being spat upon or despicably abused by professors.

Not being able to differentiate between the true followers of Christ and the false prophets leaves only one option left, a life of hopeless rage against the God of love, Who must satisfy the freedom to choose as well as exercise His sovereign authority for the benefit of those willing to follow Him to their possible death, whatever the consequences that result from allegiance to Him.

" Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" Matthew 7:14-16 KJV

There is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater if we entrust our life with the only Sovereign God of Love, Who will, for those who remain true to His principles despite abuse, bring reward that will reveal in glory a far weightier

gift than ever could be described by the best of this world of darkness.

"Indeed all who delight in piety and are determined to live a devoted and godly life in Christ Jesus will meet with persecution [will be made to suffer because of their religious stand]." 2 Timothy 3:12 AMP brackets theirs LHC

"And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 10:22 NKJV

"I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."John 12:46-48 NKJV

Joy!!!

[LifeHiscost]

Murder would of course be wrong, but that doesn't make the gay lifestyle right. It isn't discrimination to say that the lifestyle is wrong. What is discrimination is when they are treated unkindly because they are gay. They are still loved by God and he wants them to be saved and we must treat everyone with love, but that doesn't mean we condone their lifestyle.

Blessings!!!brother.

[Bravus]

*cough*sister*cough*

[olger]

Mrs. Taylor- that is.

[Woody]

there is no evidence that this member b a male or a female. I think we should leave it at that. :)