Anyone else find themselves needing to move on?

[Taylor]

haha...nope my name isn't Mrs. Taylor. Taylor is just my handle but ya there abounds confusion. :)

[LifeHiscost]

i dont remember when the last time was that i heard a sermon on pride, anger, disrespect, holier-than-thouness--or perhaps we just dont notice those things for what they are...

Or perhaps when we're mingling with what so closely resembles ourselves, we either can't tell the difference or our our gift of discernment is in need of repair or replacement.

Drat!! I wonder if I have what it takes to pay the price?

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me."Matthew 16:24 NKJV

I just noticed. That instruction is gender specific. I wonder if that is significant, and to what extent.

[LifeHiscost]

haha...nope my name isn't Mrs. Taylor. Taylor is just my handle but ya there abounds confusion.

Guess my gift of discernment does need a little polishing, hopefully not replacing.

Cheers!

[Taylor]

It's ok. It doens't bother me a bit. :)

[Dr. Shane]

i dont remember when the last time was that i heard a sermon on pride, anger, disrespect, holier-than-thouness...

Watch more Adventist TV.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i dont remember when the last time was that i heard a sermon on pride, anger, disrespect, holier-than-thouness...

Watch more Adventist TV.

the last one you heard was about? by who? when? on which station?

(would it have been on the station that had the "spiritual adultery", a certain case that came to light, to name a few that have happened there?)

[Dr. Shane]

I hear sermons like that all the time. I get 10 Adventist TV channels in my home.

[teresaq]

ok.

and the last one you heard was about? by who? when? on which station?

[cardw]

Quote:

There is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater if we entrust our life with the only Sovereign God of Love, Who will, for those who remain true to His principles despite abuse, bring reward that will reveal in glory a far weightier gift than ever could be described by the best of this world of darkness.

I don't really know what you mean by throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

What I observe is that the conservative movement is afraid that it can't defend itself on the stage of open dialog, so it has to resort to control measures through political power and force.

It uses fear as the basis of it's power and assigns the worst possible outcomes to its opponents. If the conservative movement really had the truth it wouldn't have to resort to force.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

The fact is the bulk of conversation around gay issues coming from Christians is hate speech. There are massive amounts of evidence showing it is dangerous to be gay in Christian communities. Christians tend to kill gay people just like they killed pagans, muslims, witches, Protestants, Catholics, heretics, and the list goes on and on.

In Europe, particularly with its history of the inquisition and hundreds of years of persecution by Christians, the issue of hate speech is far more sensitive since they have little desire to return to that theocratic violence.

Murder would of course be wrong, but that doesn't make the gay lifestyle right. It isn't discrimination to say that the lifestyle is wrong. What is discrimination is when they are treated unkindly because they are gay. They are still loved by God and he wants them to be saved and we must treat everyone with love, but that doesn't mean we condone their lifestyle.

I'm not making a case for the gay lifestyle, nor am I condemning it. The point is Christians have placed far too much emphasis on 10% of the population when there is a far greater problem in their ethical system with the heterosexual population.

This is one of many areas where it is clear that the Christian culture fails. It is incapable of being honest with itself. This is why I believe that Christian culture is harmful. It is committed to the propagation of denial, ignorance, condemnation, and hatred of those outside its highly judgmental culture. And it has the audacity to claim that it is the only way to god and salvation. What we need to be saved from is Christianity itself.

[Dr. Shane]

The gay population is closer to 2% than 10%. However if we want to label anyone that has ever had any sexual contact with the same sex, we may get closer to 10%. However if we go with those that consider themselves to be gay, it is somewhere between 2% and 3%.

Christian evangelicals may certainly be over-reacting to gay activism. However their over-reaction doesn't justify the gay activism either. What gays want they will not get unless they confess and repent. They want to stand justified in front of the Lord. Gay marriage is about being morally equivalent to straights. If they just wanted to have equal "rights" they would be satisfied with civil unions. There real goal is to classify all religious preaching against homosexuality as hate speech. They are looking for justification for their behavior.

[cardw]

The gay population is closer to 2% than 10%. However if we want to label anyone that has ever had any sexual contact with the same sex, we may get closer to 10%. However if we go with those that consider themselves to be gay, it is somewhere between 2% and 3%.

Christian evangelicals may certainly be over-reacting to gay activism. However their over-reaction doesn't justify the gay activism either.

Who said anything about justifying what gay people do? Gay people are not under the same constraints as Christians because they generally don't claim to have the truth for everyone else. Most Gay people that I know of aren't trying to justify their behavior. They are already convinced that there isn't anything wrong with who they are and how they live their life. They are fighting for the right to believe as they believe without being threatened or restricted. Just because Christians don't agree with them doesn't give Christians the right to call them abominations to god and worthy of death according to the Bible. That is essentially an incitement to violence. That's about as close to hate speech that I can think of. And it has justified violence toward gay people in many instances. The fact is that it is life threatening to be gay and living in most predominantly Christian communities.

You see, there you go again worrying about what other people are doing instead of cleaning your own house first. What gay people do or don't do is irrelevant to this issue. The fact that Christians are openly admitting that they kill gay people because the Bible has directed them to should be a wake up call to the sickness within Christian communities and belief systems.

[Dr. Shane]

Do not be deceived, the same Holy Spirit that speaks to the conscience of Christians, speaks to the conscience of gay people. I covet the souls of gay people for Jesus. I bare a burden for gay people. I ran an outreach ministry for them for three years while in college. I love gay people and pray the Holy Spirit guide them to His Truth. The whole gay marriage issue is evidence that the Holy Spirit is working on them as they seek justification. But gay marriage will not bring them the peace they need. Only Jesus will. I pray for that with all my heart.

[LifeHiscost]

I don't really know what you mean by throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Just that it doesn't seem reasonable to me to be down on all Christianity because some who are wolves in sheep's clothing, are allowed to function with full freedom of choice. The idea of condemnation of all Christians because some fail of living up to your expectations is not too dissimilar to the idea that all Muslims wish to kill any and all Christians, an idea held by some.

The greatest difference would be the book each holds to be the

guide for the choices made. Having heard a former Muslim, well acquainted with the Quran, point out certain passages that make it a positive duty to kill Christians, it reveals a direct contrast to what the Holy Bible asks of it's adherents.

To hold all Christianity hostage for something some have done, reveals more a self justification so as not to have to admit to the needed self-discipline of the true disciple of Christ.

"When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, “Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." Mark 8:34 NKJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

it snapshots a certain moment in time as 'truth' and sees any movement away from that moment in any direction as apostasy.

Might that include these conservative 'Truths'?;

" ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”Matthew 4:10 NKJV

"‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’"Matthew 5:33 NKJV

"“O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike." Matthew 11:25 NLT

"“You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant"Matthew 20:25,26 NLT

"...“ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’"Matthew 22:37 NKJV

___and/or a few others some folks may be finding it difficult to bear accepting as it reads.

Regards!

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

I don't really know what you mean by throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Just that it doesn't seem reasonable to me to be down on all Christianity because some who are wolves in sheep's clothing, are allowed to function with full freedom of choice.

[LifeHiscost]

I will freely admit when I am wrong and I have demonstrated this many times on Club Adventist. There is no point in defending something that is clearly wrong. It becomes a point of ego defense when I defend something that I clearly am ignorant of.

I am not ignorant of Christianity. I effectively defended it when I was younger. It just doesn't hold up to the evidence.

Perhaps I am not recognizing how much more superior a plan you would devise when faced with the effort to save those willing to submit to God as revealed in Jesus Christ, while He gives a patience almost unbelievable when dealing with those who set themselves in opposition to Him Who gave Himself for the lives of those with free will, who make effort to destroy what has succeeded very admirably, except for this little piece of cosmic dust that has chosen to shift all blame for their wickedness to His shoulders.

Which, I might add, He took full responsibility for by yielding up His life for that wickedness, merely asking in exchange for them to accept His power to change them into His likeness.

In the face of that He still gives this as a better plan.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 3:16 NKJV

"No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:39 NLT

"we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed."

I am sorry you have not been able to see the difference between the light of God and His conflict with the prince of darkness.

"....we all fall short.... "

Romans 3:23 NLT

"... it is God who works in you both to will and to do...His good pleasure."Philippians 2:13 NKJV

"Help carry one another's burdens, and in this way you will obey the law of Christ. If you think you are something when you really are nothing, you are only deceiving yourself. You should each judge your own conduct. If it is good, then you can be proud of what you yourself have done, without having to compare it with what someone else has done."Galatians 6:2-4 GNT

Regards!!

[cardw]

Quote:

Perhaps I am not recognizing how much more superior a plan you would devise when faced with the effort to save those willing to submit to God as revealed in Jesus Christ, while He gives a patience almost unbelievable when dealing with those who set themselves in opposition to Him Who gave Himself for the lives of those with free will, who make effort to destroy what has succeeded very admirably, except for this little piece of cosmic dust that has chosen to shift all blame for their wickedness to His shoulders.

You're describing a problem that does not exist, that did not need to be died for, and therefore needs no plan.

The only thing people need to be saved from is a fearful belief in the mythical angry god of the OT.

There is absolutely no evidence that there is some god that needs to destroy us because of a concept of sin. All of these things have no proof or evidence other than the fear of Christian believers and the confusing ethical conflicts of an angry god saving us from himself.

Having no answer doesn't make Christianity the default solution, so your point has no relevance.

[LifeHiscost]

There is absolutely no evidence that there is some god that needs to destroy us because of a concept of sin. All of these things have no proof or evidence other than the fear of Christian believers and the confusing ethical conflicts of an angry god saving us from himself.

There are over 2,000 prophecies in the Holy Bible about events that would take place in the future, sometimes centuries after the information was given, many seen to be accurate to the year if not the day. Just one is about to unfold in the near term that has a very good probability of occurring before I leave this earth. If it does, this is who will be able to benefit by its' fulfillment. I'm hoping you will be able to take advantage of what is promised.

"God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

May God give you more and more grace and peace.

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay."

1 Peter 1:2-4 NLT

Regards!!

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: cardw

There is absolutely no evidence that there is some god that needs to destroy us because of a concept of sin. All of these things have no proof or evidence other than the fear of Christian believers and the confusing ethical conflicts of an angry god saving us from himself.

There are over 2,000 prophecies in the Holy Bible about events that would take place in the future, sometimes centuries after the information was given, many seen to be accurate to the year if not the day. Just one is about to unfold in the near term that has a very good probability of occurring before I leave this earth. If it does, this is who will be able to benefit by its' fulfillment. I'm hoping you will be able to take advantage of what is promised.

"God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

May God give you more and more grace and peace.

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay."

1 Peter 1:2-4 NLT

Regards!!

That is one great promise, which I can't wait for. I agree history does great justice to the Bible.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

"God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

May God give you more and more grace and peace.

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay."

1 Peter 1:2-4 NLT

That is one great promise, which I can't wait for. I agree history does great justice to the Bible.

I look forward to meeting you there, PK. with all praise in my case, to His glory.

I've heard that if just eight of the prophecies of Jesus were accurate, the chance of it being coincidental in coming to pass would be 100 to the 17th power (just an amount with poor recall), far beyond the chance of possibility, and yet the historical accuracy of Him fulfilling those events is beyond dispute, other than by those who also believe the holocaust of the Jews during the time of the Nazi regime was also prefabricated.

"For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”" Hebrews 13:5 NKJV

Joy!!!

[cardw]

Quote:

There are over 2,000 prophecies in the Holy Bible about events that would take place in the future, sometimes centuries after the information was given, many seen to be accurate to the year if not the day. Just one is about to unfold in the near term that has a very good probability of occurring before I leave this earth. If it does, this is who will be able to benefit by its' fulfillment. I'm hoping you will be able to take advantage of what is promised.

This has no basis in fact. The problem with forecasting prophecies with no exact time period is that eventually many of these will happen due to the cyclic nature of history.

In the case of Seventh Day Adventists we don't have an actual event that we can see because the cleansing of the sanctuary happens in heaven. Remember the SDA church started on a mistaken prophecy even though all the so called nominal churches had it right.

So the reliability of Biblical prophecy within the SDA church had a very shaky start. It's called dead wrong. It's seems rather convenient that the fulfillment of the very prophecy that started the SDA church happens in a place that no one can verify.

Again, a lot of mental gymnastics to make something true most people can see has no truth at all.

It's back to the call to "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

[LifeHiscost]

It's back to the call to "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

When I was younger I use to really enjoy the rush when playing poker, especially when I held a hand like four of a kind when somebody else had an ace high full house. To this day, though gambling has probably destroyed more lives than can possibly be imagined, it is still a temptation for me that, while God keeps it under control, the memory of the rush as the cards were laid out on the table remains with me.

It's somewhat like that when I view my conversation with you, cardw. Especially when I view you're confidence of personal opinion in the face of a book that's been around for centuries, which primary figure either has to be a raving lunatic or is exactly Who He says He is and is to be believed for every Word He speaks and inspires others to repeat.

So, as a gambler, I've decided to say there is a glimmer of truth possible in your conclusions, even though I don't believe those conclusions. Because I do not believe we are saved by our theological correctness, but by the Man Jesus Christ alone, I'm going to lay my cards on the table with a recognition of what is in store for me if I'm correct about His care, or what I have to look forward to if your correct.

If you are right, at the very best, everything a heart could desire for a maximum of a few score years while one remains alive. If I am right, a maximum after death if I don't last till Jesus returns, eternal life after resurrection with joy unspeakable and full of glory, everything Jesus desires for me. Hmmmm!

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." 3 John 1:2 NKJV

"And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”"Revelation 21:4 NKJV

" Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work."2 Thess 2:16,17 NKJV

As a gambler, seems like a no brainer to me. If you hold the cards you have, and your wrong at the time of His appearing, there is no turning back. If I'm wrong, I wouldn't have lost anything that I wouldn't have lost anyway.

Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Revelation 6:14-17 NKJV

Regards!

[SivartM]

LHC, what if neither of you are right, and the true religion says that if you believe it not only will you live forever, but you are promised unlimited candy and a movie night every Tuesday in the afterlife? People should not make decisions based on the assumption that there are only two possible options. Pascal's wager only makes any sense if you are at least 50% sure that the Christian God is real.

[LifeHiscost]

LHC, what if neither of you are right, and the true religion says that if you believe it not only will you live forever, but you are promised unlimited candy and a movie night every Tuesday in the afterlife? People should not make decisions based on the assumption that there are only two possible options. Pascal's wager only makes any sense if you are at least 50% sure that the Christian God is real.

Sorry the last post I wrote didn't tell the complete story of my own personal conclusion re: Jesus as Lord and Almighty God. The post was written for anyone who felt it was a gamble of that reality. In the case of cardw, it was understood by me that he might place more trust in a gamble than he places in the Word, making what he was gambling on seem more important to be placed on that which would have the greatest possible returns instead of relying on what is rapidly falling apart as what he would get, even if he won the gamble on this world.

As to my own conclusions, there is only One option for eternal life and it is not a gamble or a hesitant maybe, but is even more sure than the supposed reality that the 33 billion cells (that figure might have changed since I last counted :smile: )of my own body came into being as a result of the big bang or that my life actually survives from day to day as a primary result of breathing in and out, or even more sure than the reality that my four children came as a result of an intimate union with another human being.

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6 NKJV

Blessings!