Today In Bible Prophecy

[Guest]

"Today In Bible Prophecy" - Part I

From the book "The Last Church Meets The Obama-Nation"

by Henry Carroll Hills used with permission

Our very own hch.

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) Mark 13:14

Because Jesus is concerned about our welfare, He told us that we should understand the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. “If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes.” Luke 19:42 What is the abomination of desolation? What are the things that we need to know for our peace of mind that are hidden from us?

To many the peace and rest of this blessed way seems no nearer today than it did years in the past. They look afar off for that which is nigh; they make intricate that which Jesus made very plain. He is “the way, the truth, and the life.” The plan of salvation has been plainly revealed in the Word of God; but the wisdom of the world has been sought too much, and the wisdom of Christ’s righteousness too little. And souls that might have rested in the love of Jesus, have been doubting, and troubled about many things. 3SM 151.1

We are living in the perils of the last days. A superficial faith results in a superficial experience. There is a repentance that needs to be repented of. All genuine experience in religious doctrines will bear the impress of Jehovah. All should see the necessity of understanding the truth for themselves individually. We must understand the doctrines that have been studied out carefully and prayerfully. …There is among our people a great lack of knowledge in regard to the rise and progress of the third angel’s message. There is great need to search the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, and learn the texts thoroughly, that we may know what is written. 2SM 392.1

In this our day, as in Christ’s day, there will be a misreading and misinterpreting of the Scriptures. If the Jews had studied the Scriptures with earnest, prayerful, humble hearts, their searching would have been rewarded with a true knowledge of the time, and not only the time, but also the manner, of Christ’s first appearing. They would not have ascribed the glories of the second appearing of Christ to His first advent. They had the testimony of Daniel; they had the testimony of Isaiah and the other prophets; they had the teaching of Moses; and here was Christ Himself in their midst, and still they were searching the Scriptures for evidence in regard to His coming. …They were so blinded that they knew not the time of His visitation, or what they were doing. 1SAT 289.2

The men who have the oracles of God not only break the law themselves but teach those who would investigate and obey the light to do the same. The men who claim to be teachers deceive the people, as did the leaders in Israel in Christ’s day. …When accused by the Pharisees, He said, “Ye make void the law of God by your tradition.” “Ye teach for doctrines the commandments of men.” Again He said to those so-called teachers, “Ye are both ignorant of the Scriptures and the power of God.” ST, March 20, 1901 par. 4

We have now come to a period in our history when there is great necessity of more than human wisdom. …I dare not move by impulse. I dare not remain passive, and do nothing. Yet I am forbidden to engage in controversy with men…in great danger of misinterpreting their own spiritual condition. They are spiritually blind--as verily blind as were the men who in Christ’s day claimed to be able to see, but who could not discern their true condition. Many are being led astray. The blind are leaders of the blind. And unless these deluded souls, both the leaders and their followers, are converted and transformed, they will not, can not, be laborers together with God. SpTB07 51.2

We are now in a perilous position. Our only hope is to follow on earnestly, determinedly, and to leave the events for the Lord to manage. I tremble for the men who have not walked in the footsteps of the self-denying, self-sacrificing Redeemer. I greatly fear that they will become lost in the fog and the quicksands, and never be overcomers. I can not endure the thought of their remaining deceived. And although they have greatly erred by not following in the footsteps of our heavenly Leader, Christ Jesus, some refuse to confess their errors. They persist in trying to make it appear as if they have made no mistakes, and have not been led by seducing spirits, when I know that they have; for thus saith the One who is truth,--and no lie is of the truth. SpTB07 52.1

[Rondo]

What is this a love fest for EGW????? i thought that this thread would use the Bible. EGW has lied about things like her participation in the Shut Door Doctrine, how can you trust as you do above.

[hch]

What is this a love fest for EGW????? i thought that this thread would use the Bible. EGW has lied about things like her participation in the Shut Door Doctrine, how can you trust as you do above.

[John317]

What is this a love fest for EGW????? i thought that this thread would use the Bible. EGW has lied about things like her participation in the Shut Door Doctrine, how can you trust as you do above.

Did she lie, really?

If she lied about this, I would without hesitation reject her and throw out all of her books.

But let the reader decide for himself whether Ellen White denied that she participated in the Shut Door Doctrine.

Quote:

Selected Messages Book 1, Page 63, 64

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah’s day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ’s day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7).

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels’ messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection. It was only the class who had despised the light from heaven that the Spirit of God could not reach. And this class included, as I have stated, both those who refused to accept the message when it was presented to them, and also those who, having received it, afterward renounced their faith. These might have a form of godliness, and profess to be followers of Christ; but having no living connection with God, they would be taken captive by the delusions of Satan. These two classes are brought to view in the vision—those who declared the light which they had followed a delusion, and the wicked of the world who, having rejected the light, had been rejected of God. No reference is made to those who had not seen the light, and therefore were not guilty of its rejection.

In order to prove that I believed and taught the shut-door doctrine, Mr. C gives a quotation from the Review of June 11, 1861, signed by nine of our prominent members. The quotation reads as follows:

“Our views of the work before us were then mostly vague and indefinite, some still retaining the idea adopted by the body of advent believers in 1844, with William Miller at their head, that our work for ‘the world’ was finished, and that the message was confined to those of the original advent faith. So firmly was this believed that one of our number was nearly refused the message, the individual presenting it having doubts of the possibility of his salvation because he was not in ‘the ‘44 move.’”

To this I need only to add, that in the same meeting in which it was urged that the message could not be given to this brother, a testimony was given me through vision to encourage him to hope in God and to give his heart fully to Jesus, which he did then and there.

If you have proof that the above is not true, let's see it so we can judge the information and draw the right conclusion for ourselves.

[Guest]

Part II

The ways and works that have been developed … cause me to tremble…for many have been acting as if blinded by satanic agencies. Little do these men know of the bearing that their leading position of influence has had on the minds of men who should never have had a trace of the experience and the example that they have had…. No dependence can be placed in a man whose words and actions reveal that he is spiritually blind. … What can be said regarding a man who claims to have walked in the path of righteousness, in accordance with the Lord’s guidance, ever since he has been old enough to understand God’s will, and yet who in his life-practise disregards a plain “Thus saith the Lord”? He has a bewildered mind, an uncertain experience. SpTB07 52.2

The Saviour … [said], “Ye will not come unto Me, that ye might have life.” “Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me; for he wrote of Me. But if ye believe not his writings how shall ye believe My words?” Those who begin by doubting and disbelieving the Old Testament will come to doubt and disbelieve the New. We cannot afford to slight or neglect any of the provisions of God’s grace, any of the manifestations of His Spirit. Those who do not gratefully accept and improve the warnings, counsel, or reproofs of divine mercy, will little by little come to regard them with indifference. They feel that it is optional with themselves to receive or reject the light from Heaven. Like the Jews in Christ’s day, they reject the clearest evidence, because they find some pretext for doubt, something to criticize. ST, June 8, 1882 par. 13

Though the Jews had the Scriptures which testified of Christ, they were not able to discern Christ in the Scriptures; and although we have the Old and the New Testament, men wrest the Scriptures to evade their truths; and in their interpretations of the Scriptures, they teach, as did the Pharisees, the maxims and traditions of men for the commandments of God. In Christ’s day the religious leaders had so long presented human ideas before the people, that the teaching of Christ was in every way opposed to their theories and practice. … They presented to the people endless maxims and traditions as proceeding from God, when they had no “thus saith the Lord” for their authority. Though they professed to know and to worship the true and living God, they wholly misrepresented Him, and the character of God, as represented by His Son, was as an original subject, a new gift to the world. Christ made every effort so to sweep away the misrepresentations of Satan, that the confidence of man in the love of God might be restored. … Christ leads us to the throne of God by a new and living way…. RH, September 11, 1894 par. 6

The popular opinion of what saith the Fathers will not help my case. My work is given me of God to know and understand His will for my own individual self. By thoughtful, prayerful study, I must seek to know for myself the true meaning of the Scriptures. We should thank God every day that we are not left to human traditions and man-made assertions. We cannot be safe in trusting to any other word except “It is written.” We cannot float with the current; we cannot build our faith on any human theory, lest we come under condemnation as did the Jews. “Ye teach for doctrine the commandments of men,” said Christ to them. And this statement is made decidedly plain to us in these last days. 13MR 22.3

I hope that none of the churches in our land will depend upon a minister for support in spiritual things; for this is dangerous. When God gives you light, you should praise Him for it. If you extol the messenger, you will be left to barrenness of soul. … Let the people go to work. Let them thank God for the encouragement they have received, and then make it manifest that it has wrought in them a good work. Let each member of the church be a living, active agent for God, both in the church and out of it. We must all be educated to be independent, not helpless and useless. Let it be seen that Christ, not the minister, is the head of the church. The members of the body of Christ have a part to act, and they will not be accounted faithful unless they do act their part. Let a divine work be wrought in every soul, until Christ shall behold his image reflected in His followers. ST, January 27, 1890 par. 9

In the presentation of the truth, those who honestly desire to be right will be awakened to a diligent searching of the Scriptures. This will produce results similar to those that attended the labors of the apostles in Berea. But those who preach the truth in these days meet many who are the opposite of the Bereans. They cannot controvert the doctrine presented to them, yet they manifest the utmost reluctance to investigate the evidence offered in its favor, and assume that even if it is the truth it is a matter of little consequence whether or not they accept it as such. They think that their old faith and customs are good enough for them. But the Lord, who sent out His ambassadors with a message to the world, will hold the people responsible for the manner in which they treat the words of His servants. God will judge all according to the light which has been presented to them, whether it is plain to them or not. It is their duty to investigate as did the Bereans. The Lord says through the prophet Hosea: “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee.” LP 87.2

The minds of the Bereans were not narrowed by prejudice, and they were willing to investigate and receive the truths preached by the apostles. If the people of our time would follow the example of the noble Bereans, in searching the Scriptures daily, and in comparing the messages brought to them with what is there recorded, there would be thousands loyal to God’s law where there is one today. But many who profess to love God have no desire to change from error to truth, and they cling to the pleasing fables of the last days. Error blinds the mind and leads from God; but truth gives light to the mind, and life to the soul. LP 88.1

Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained. HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3

…Those who profess to believe the truth should be right themselves, and exert all their influence to enlighten and win others to the truth. Their words and works are the channel through which the pure principles of truth and holiness are conveyed to the world. They are the salt of the earth, and the light thereof. …In looking Heavenward we shall see light and peace, but in looking to the world we shall see that every refuge must soon fail us, and every good soon pass away. There is no help for us but in God, and in this state of earth’s confusion we cannot be composed, strong, or safe, only in the strength of living faith; nor can we be in peace, only as we rest in God, and wait for His salvation. Greater light shines upon us than shone upon our fathers. We cannot be accepted or honored of God in rendering the same service, or doing the same works, our fathers have done. In order to be accepted and blessed of God as our fathers were, we must imitate their faithfulness and zeal,--improve our light as they improved theirs,--and do as they would have done if they had lived in our day. We must improve and walk in the light which shines upon us, otherwise our light will become darkness. God requires us to exhibit to the world, in our character and works, that measure of the Spirit, union, and oneness, which are in accordance with the sacred truths we profess, and the spirit of those prophecies that are being fulfilled in these last days. The truth which has reached our understanding, the light that has shone on the soul, will judge and condemn us, if we turn away and refuse to be led by them. 4bSG 60.2

[Gordon1]

A good love-fest. These are pointed selections. Sobering.

Rondo, you're missing out.

[Guest]

That's right Gordon.

[Guest]

Part III

Those who walk in the light will progress; they will grow up to the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus. This is the result of sanctification through the truth, and this is what God requires of all. Truth is progressive; and those who are preparing for the last great day will go forward in accordance with the accumulated light which shines upon them from the prophecies and from the lessons of Christ and the apostles. No one will be condemned in the Day of Judgment because of a lack of knowledge which he never had an opportunity to obtain. The light which never shone upon him will never be his darkness. The truth which God’s messengers have presented by pen and by voice, the treasures of the word of God which they have opened to the people, the light which has penetrated the darkened chambers of the mind, will, if rejected, be witnesses against them in the last great day. The testimony which will come with condemning power upon the sinner, and which will close his mouth before God and testify of his guilt, is the fact that he saw the light, but for various reasons in harmony with the carnal heart, would not receive it. He would not receive the truth that was given to save him. The greater the light, the greater the obligations. RH, January 5, 1886 par. 6

The Word of God is a revelation of mercy, of peace and good will to man. The teachings of the Word of God open before us the necessity of purity, of holiness. There are jewels of truth, mercy, and righteousness to sanctify our lives, to reveal God in Jesus Christ. All who love God may come to the Scriptures earnestly, prayerfully, with contrition of soul, searching for truth as for hidden treasures, fasting and praying for truth, and they will not be disappointed but be made wise unto salvation. 1888 826.1

The great error with churches in all ages has been to reach a certain point in their understanding of Bible truth and there stop. There they anchored. They ceased to “Go forward,” as much as to say, “We have all-sufficient light. We need no more.” And they refuse light. 1888 826.2

After the message of warning was given, a confederacy was formed that would not receive the message. They kept themselves barricaded; fearing that if they should evidence that they did receive light there was a trapdoor ready to let them through into some dangerous pit. The richest treasures of truth were opened before them. Every mind needed the jewels and gems that were revealed, but by confederating together they were deceived and their stakes were set fast. Thus have the nominal churches dealt with the message from heaven. 1888 826.3

Why did God’s people treat the truth the same way that the nominal churches dealt with it? Consider Jesus’ insight given in His message to the Laodiceans. “Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.” Revelation 3:17 But He did not leave Laodicea in a hopeless condition! “I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” Revelation 3:18-19 But what does Laodicea need to see: those things that we need to know for our peace of mind that are hidden from us?

Consider an example from God’s word: “but woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.” Luke 21:23, see Matthew 24:19 & Mark 13:17 This warning is recorded in three of the gospels. In love, Christ would have us to understand the signs of the times that we may prepare intelligently and avoid needless pain and suffering for us and our children.

The Lord loves His people, and would lead them step by step onward under the banner of truth, the third angel’s message. Still the precious mines of truth are to be explored. There should be, by every man who teaches the truth, a constant searching for what saith the Scriptures? There are the mines of truth to be worked. There is a most solemn work to be done. In these last days we have the benefit of the wisdom and experience of past ages. The men of God, saints and martyrs, have made confession of their faith, and the knowledge of their experience and their burning zeal for God is transmitted to the world in the living oracles. And their example of faith in living experience, in their self-denying, self-sacrificing lives, comes down along the line to our times. This hereditary trust has been gathered up by faithful witnesses that the bright light shining upon them in the knowledge of God might enlighten those living in these last days; and while they appreciate this light they will advance to greater light for the knowledge of the Word of God has been extending and increasing upon the earth. The Source of all light still invites us to come and absorb its rays. Light is not placed where the followers of Christ cannot obtain its benefits. It is not cut off from the world so there is no more or increased light to shine in greater clearness and more abundantly upon all who have improved the light given of God. 1888 826.4

[Rondo]

If you can prove to me that EGW never lied or covered up for herself, thus making her a false prophet or at least an inaccurate one, you win. With estimated 70 % of her works copied from other sources, we would do well to stay close to the Bible. You are free to test her against the Bible, but the Bible should always have the last word.

[Guest]

Part IV

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the laborers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. James 5:1-6

The word of God through James states that rich men “have heaped treasure together for the last days” and that the “gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire.” Who are the rich men to whom James was written?

“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: greetings my brethren….” James 1:1-2 Punctuation is not inspired. Greetings (5721) present tense. Think about James warning to those rich men who once professed a belief in God, and who are wearing motheaten garments in the last days. The similarity to the last Church, Laodicea, is unmistakable, for it is the church in the last days that professes to believe in God, it claims “I am rich…and have need of nothing,” but Jesus states that it is naked. Thus we, who are living in the last days, need to understand where we are on God’s timeline, how to see our true condition, how to remedy it, how to dress acceptably for Jesus, and how to manage the wealth that God has given to us so that it does not become a curse against us.

…As a people and also as God’s ambassadors, we are far behind our opportunities and privileges. We stand condemned by the Word and especially by the law of God according to our delinquencies. God looks upon the heart. No people have been favored with the measure of grace which has been manifest to us living in these last days. If the people having so great light and superior privileges have not improved them, our condemnation must be in accordance with the non-improvement of the talents given us. 2MR 112.4

We need now to begin over again. Reforms must be entered into with heart and soul and will. Errors may be hoary with age; but age does not make error truth, nor truth error. Altogether too long have the old customs and habits been followed. The Lord would now have every idea that is false put away from teachers and students. We are not at liberty to teach that which shall meet the world’s standard or the standard of the church, simply because it is the custom to do so. The lessons which Christ taught are to be the standard. That which the Lord has spoken … is to be strictly regarded….6T 142.1

[Rondo]

Note this act of faulty cover-up:

Quote:

I saw that the mysterious signs and wonders and false reformations would increase and spread. The reformations that were shown me were not reformations from error to truth. My accompanying angel bade me look for the travail of soul for sinners as used to be. I looked, but could not see it; for the time for their salvation is past.--Early Writings, p. 45.

then this:

Quote:

With my brethren and sisters, after the time passed in forty-four I did believe no more sinners would be converted. But I never had a vision that [p. 56] no more sinners would be converted. And am clear and free to state no one has ever heard me say or has read from my pen statements which will justify them in the charges they have made against me upon this point. . . .

I never have stated or written that the world was doomed or damned. I never have under any circumstances used this language to anyone, however sinful. I have ever had messages of reproof for those who used these harsh expressions.--Letter 2, 1874; Selected Messages, book 1, p. 74.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Rondo

What is this a love fest for EGW????? i thought that this thread would use the Bible. EGW has lied about things like her participation in the Shut Door Doctrine, how can you trust as you do above.

Did she lie, really?

If she lied about this, I would without hesitation reject her and throw out all of her books.

But let the reader decide for himself whether Ellen White denied that she participated in the Shut Door Doctrine.

Quote:

Selected Messages Book 1, Page 63, 64

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah’s day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ’s day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7).

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels’ messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection. It was only the class who had despised the light from heaven that the Spirit of God could not reach. And this class included, as I have stated, both those who refused to accept the message when it was presented to them, and also those who, having received it, afterward renounced their faith. These might have a form of godliness, and profess to be followers of Christ; but having no living connection with God, they would be taken captive by the delusions of Satan. These two classes are brought to view in the vision—those who declared the light which they had followed a delusion, and the wicked of the world who, having rejected the light, had been rejected of God. No reference is made to those who had not seen the light, and therefore were not guilty of its rejection.

In order to prove that I believed and taught the shut-door doctrine, Mr. C gives a quotation from the Review of June 11, 1861, signed by nine of our prominent members. The quotation reads as follows:

“Our views of the work before us were then mostly vague and indefinite, some still retaining the idea adopted by the body of advent believers in 1844, with William Miller at their head, that our work for ‘the world’ was finished, and that the message was confined to those of the original advent faith. So firmly was this believed that one of our number was nearly refused the message, the individual presenting it having doubts of the possibility of his salvation because he was not in ‘the ‘44 move.’”

To this I need only to add, that in the same meeting in which it was urged that the message could not be given to this brother, a testimony was given me through vision to encourage him to hope in God and to give his heart fully to Jesus, which he did then and there.

If you have proof that the above is not true, let's see it so we can judge the information and draw the right conclusion for ourselves.

I agree John. Why anyone would call this a lie is beyond me. To point to someone having a belief that was wrong before God showed them the truth, and call them a liar because of it, is the work of the devil. So when I see others doing that, it lets me know where they are coming from. They are coming from the camp of the enemy of souls.

So I would have to ask Rondo: Is every human mistake you ever made, a lie? I know you have made mistakes, so does this make you a liar? Because according to your own reasoning on this, it does.

[Guest]

Rondo, to prove whether Ellen White was a true prophet or not, is NOT the topic of this thread. You cannot make that the topic of every thread that uses EGW quotes. Others have been banned for doing that. It's called "Highjacking" a thread.

[Twilight]

There goes the twelve disciples then.

Throw them out Rondo.

You have to.

Because they did not understand the most basic principles of the Gospel until after Jesus was crucified.

On that basis, with your logic, they have to be thrown on the same scrap heap you are so willing to place Ellen White on... :-)

[Rondo]

You deleted my post with EGW quotes, because you want to believe her irrespective of the truth??? Dangerous position, bet Ted Wilson would vote with you.

[Rondo]

We should hold Apostles and modern day proclaimed prophets that talk directly with God or claim to have visions with angels escorting them to a higher standard , don't you think???

Richard in this regard, EGW should be a head of an anouncement we all can see, should she not. Calling me from the Devil only justifies those like Proclamation to claim the SDA church originated from the Devil. NOTE:

Note the Summary of this study by Coleen Tinker a former Adventist, now editor of Proclamation:

http://www.formeradventist.com/studies/topical/thumbnailsketch.html

[Rondo]

i don't disagree with EGW that the close of probation will happen, my beef is when she says it is, retracts it, but oops, forgets one passage that still says the same thing. If you wish to ban me for trying to keep the SDA church from geting embarassed, have at it, but Truth seekers will notice.

[John317]

Rondo, to prove whether Ellen White was a true prophet or not, is NOT the topic of this thread. You cannot make that the topic of every thread that uses EGW quotes. Others have been banned for doing that. It's called "Highjacking" a thread.

Speaking as moderator:

If someone wants to discuss whether Ellen White is a true prophet or not, they should make it the subject of a new discussion. It is OK to ask the question and spend two or three posts on it but we shouldn't take it beyond that.

Rondo, if you want to talk further about the topic of Ellen White's prophetic ministry, please do it on a thread devoted to it.

[John317]

Note the Summary of this study by Coleen Tinker a former Adventist,

Do you believe what that summary says?

[Guest]

You deleted my post with EGW quotes, because you want to believe her irrespective of the truth??? Dangerous position, bet Ted Wilson would vote with you.

Huh???

I don't see where anything has been deleted. Your post with the EGW quotes is still there. Did you just tell a lie???

[hch]

If you can prove to me that EGW never lied or covered up for herself, thus making her a false prophet or at least an inaccurate one, you win. With estimated 70 % of her works copied from other sources, we would do well to stay close to the Bible. You are free to test her against the Bible, but the Bible should always have the last word.

When I began my study of Daniel, I did it without using EGW resources. The Bible and the Bible only.

The Lord called me to study Daniel. I turned back from the study after none of my SDA Brethren would study with me. You'll understand how there is safety in a multitude of counselors. But the Lord called me to return to the study. When I returned, I could not understand anything that I had diligently noted in my copious notes or in the cross referenced material between Daniel and Jeremiah. It was after a season of deep repentance that the Lord graciously restored my understanding to me.

Then when I had nailed down endtime events from the Bible relating to Daniel and Revelation, I then redid the study with the inclusion of Spirit of Prophecy material. Not only did it confirm what I had learned, it supplemented my study in such a way as to open a deeper understanding. Prophecy is being fulfilled as I write and we are so far below the understanding that God would have us to have at this point in time.

What else can it be when we readily accept vague generalizations relating to the signs of the times when specifics are strewn through out the Scriptures and we cannot see them?

[John317]

If you wish to ban me for trying to keep the SDA church from geting embarassed, have at it, but Truth seekers will notice.

Speaking a moderator:

Rondo, no one is banned from this Forum merely for expressing their viewpoints. We have members who say they don't believe Christ existed or that God exists. Others say they don't believe in 2/3 of the NT.

People are not banned for their viewpoints but for the way they talk to other members-- ie., making personal attacks and calling names, etc. Another reason for banning someone is for continually violating the rules that are posted. But the rules don't prohibit any particular topic or viewpoint. It's important, though, to discuss questions on the threads where those questions belong.

[hch]

This is just the beginning of what could be an interesting discussion, but it looks like it has ended before it got started.

[Guest]

We are living in the perils of the last days. A superficial faith results in a superficial experience. There is a repentance that needs to be repented of. All genuine experience in religious doctrines will bear the impress of Jehovah. All should see the necessity of understanding the truth for themselves individually. We must understand the doctrines that have been studied out carefully and prayerfully. …There is among our people a great lack of knowledge in regard to the rise and progress of the third angel’s message. There is great need to search the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, and learn the texts thoroughly, that we may know what is written. 2SM 392

Amen

[hch]

…There is among our people a great lack of knowledge in regard to the rise and progress of the third angel’s message. There is great need to search the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, and learn the texts thoroughly, that we may know what is written. 2SM 392

Amen

What is the rise of the 3rd angel's message of which she speaks here? Is it the third angel's message of 1844 or the repeat of the third angel's message as I thinks she said would occur in Revelation 18?

And if the pioneers had an understanding of Daniel and Revelation in her day that was sufficient to get us through to the kingdom, why would she say "There is great need to search the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, and learn the texts thoroughly, that we may know what is written"? That sounds like there is more to Daniel and Revelation than she had in her day?