The body a temple for the Holy Spirit...

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I would say that the materials are anything from scripture as a start.

I don't know what this means.

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Anything from the culture of the first century (I think it will get a little murky after that).

Ok.

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I would be careful of overuse of lexicons, as they will have a bias in them.

I don't think this is true as a general statement. In certain instances, it can certainly be the case, though. For example, if a given unusual word is only used once or twice in Scripture, one's personal view of the state of the dead, for example, might make a difference on one's understanding of the meaning of that word. But if we're dealing with common words, I'm not seeing how a Lexicon could be overused. It's basically like a dictionary, just providing the meaning of the word.

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I do not think we should use the SOP in this instance, as we are trying to keep this as simple as possible.

When we have both reached our conclusions, we could then start a new thread throwing it open to the SOP.

That will stop it getting over complicated very fast.

Ok.

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I suggest that we also have a rule of addressing the argument only and not the person.

I'm in favor of this. I try to be very careful with the tone of my posts, and to keep comments directed towards arguments, unless I feel I'm being misrepresented, in which case I'll address the person in an attempt to get some support for their statement as to my position.

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I am happy for Teresa to join in, as long as it is for candid discussion and not to attack me as a person or try to represent me as a "spiritualist", which she has done now on many occassions and never apologised.

I looked at over 30 pages of posts on the threads related to this discussion, and could find no instance of her representing you as a "spiritualist." You say she has dong this on "many occasions," yet I looked and looked, and couldn't even find one instance of this.

She has questioned whether your ideas are spiritualistic, which is not the same thing. You should be able to explain why your ideas are not spiritualistic, and should not take offense, IMO, for having to do so. We should be able to defend our ideas.

I don't see where teresa, in regards to this question of spiritualism, has broken the rules of addressing the person as opposed to the argument (or idea).

I'm glad you agree to her participating, as I enjoy her insights. I hope we can all comment in a way that takes into account how the reader will "hear" what's being said, and do so in the spirit of the golden rule.

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I have forgiven her of course, but if she does not confess that sin, then her behaviour will not change and the discussion will become one that is just a petty squable where my views are just misrepresented continually.

So the choice is in her own hands.

This comment seems out of place. For one thing, you're making a specific accusation (by saying she should "confess that sin," without producing any evidence that she has sinned.

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But I would welcome her to the discussion if she was not engaging in personal attacks, but rather arguing the point. :-)

I'm sure she'd agree to that.

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Proposed rules of discussion:

Bible as the basis.

Jesus' understanding as the foundational corner stone.

Limited reliance on Greek Lexicons where the author may be arguing a personal bias into the understanding.

No reliance on current psychology or scientific knowledge.

No reliance on the SOP to keep the discussion small and manageable.

All discussion to be focused on the argument and not those proposing the argument.

I'm ok with all of this, except the scientific knowledge piece. Why do you want to leave this out? Would that be just for now?

The Teresa issue has gone back a long way and she often tries to present the idea that I am promoting spiritualism without ever supporting her argument.

This is also over many threads.

Those posts are on the board, but I am not about to rake them all up - I am done with that argument, it is negative and unproductive.

If she wants to join in and make arguments about the arguments, then that is not a problem.

But if someone just wants to insuate a point without proving it, that is negative and personal, then I have no time for those types of games.

As to the scientific argument, I can of course present scientific research into the function of the heart.

But then we are really arguing about what uninspired mens opinions are, so this would not help.

Science can provide an argument for nearly any argument...

I will start a thread soon on this and let you know when I have. :-)

[pnattmbtc]

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The Teresa issue has gone back a long way and she often tries to present the idea that I am promoting spiritualism without ever supporting her argument.

This is also over many threads.

Those posts are on the board, but I am not about to rake them all up - I am done with that argument, it is negative and unproductive.

If she wants to join in and make arguments about the arguments, then that is not a problem.

But if someone just wants to insuate a point without proving it, that is negative and personal, then I have no time for those types of games.

I haven't been following this too closely, but what it appears to me to be is that teresa has seen what appears to her to be similar ideas (and from looking at the links she provided, I can say I saw similarities as well) from other sources and what you are presenting. So I can see why she would bring that up and question that. I think these are legitimate concerns. I hope these concerns can be raised and dealt with in a way that doesn't involve personal accusations or assignment of blame.

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As to the scientific argument, I can of course present scientific research into the function of the heart.

But then we are really arguing about what uninspired mens opinions are, so this would not help.

We understand a lot more about how the kidneys, heart, and mind work than what was understood a couple of thousand years ago. A couple of hundred years ago the idea that the sun was the center of the solar system was rejected by heresy. It was thought this was contrary to Scripture. Now the general idea is that the Scripture was being wrongly interpreted. It's possible we have a similar issue in regards to the heart/kidneys/mind question. I would like to discuss this at some point. It could be in the thread you open, or a future one, I don't care which, but I would like to discuss this at some point.

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Science can provide an argument for nearly any argument...

So can the Spirit of Prophecy, or Scripture. And anything else, I suppose.

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I will start a thread soon on this and let you know when I have. :-)

Ok.

[Twilight]

It is here for you Pnat:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...t/showflat.html

Please join in all. :-)

[Twilight]

Whilst I remember, I did not place any restriction on Lexicons etc, as it would be impossible to "police" Pnat. :-)

[teresaq]

Whilst I remember, I did not place any restriction on Lexicons etc, as it would be impossible to "police" Pnat. :-)