Stan/Moderators - Can we have a Creation forum please?

[Twilight]

I notice that the "origins" forum is closed to all but an invited select few.

So in light of the importance of the Creation issue for Adventists, would it be possible to have an open Forum, seperate from the private one, where we can discuss these issues.

At the moment they are all rolling into Townhall, which is not really a specific area to discuss things in...

Mark :-)

[SivartM]

The Origins forum isn't invitation-only. You just have to ask for access.

[Bravus]

I've kind of inherited the role of moderator of the Origins forum from (creationist) Norm Finch who was the moving force in creating it.

I'd be very happy to open up the existing forum to everyone. Alternatively, I'm happy to support the motion for a new forum too.

If a new one is made I suspect the already-quiet Origins forum will die out completely. I'm happy either to keep it or get rid of it.

[Dr. Shane]

I think the Origins forum is a teaser forum, isn't it? That is, it can be seen by everyone but not accessed unless access is requested. I think that is how it should remain or it will probably get hit by drive-by shooters (posters). That can make things rather inflammatory. I don't see the need for a creation forum as it will just get filled with inflammatory threads unless it is highly moderated and/or a teaser forum.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Clique-claque. Clique-claque. Clique-claque.

...another insulated remnant, yes?

That's not inflammatory, is it?

[Bravus]

Not that it will necessarily help, but let me clarify a bit.

The Origins forum does not have an orthodoxy test for entry, in any direction. It includes people from an enormously broad range of perspectives, including many convinced recent creationists.

There's not even a civility test any more - just too difficult and subjective to moderate.

There's one rule and only one: posters may not call into question the Christianity or faith of other posters. That's it.

If you think you can abide by that one simple rule, drop me a PM and you'll be welcomed in quickly and with open arms.

If you can't... well I guess you might need a new forum.

[Twilight]

The Adventist position on Creationism should be discussed in an open public forum.

The argument that it is "too sensitive" for public use is not a valid argument, as that could be used for any forum.

If people want a private place to discuss these things, that is fine.

But a public arena gives everyone, including casual passers by the opportunity to engage.

As the very essence at the heart of the Three Angels Message is the Creator God and how He created, this should not be a hidden discussion.

God did not tell us to give the message in closed forums.

So I think a public forum would be in line with the 3 Angels Message and goals of the SDA church.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think anyone wants to hide the message of creation. It is the inflammatory comments and unchrisitian like insults thrown at each other that doesn't need to be in a public forum.

[Neil D]

The Adventist position on Creationism should be discussed in an open public forum.

Ooooh boy....IOWs, you want SDA values to representatively be shown publically... I take this to mean that you want a public forum where real SDAs can be seen by the public...

Believe it or not, I have argued this position in the moderators forums, which are closed to the public...There, acutual members [even the moderators themselves] and their postings have been discussed and pondered over.

Take a look at all the current postings in all forums....Would you say that most of these postings are reflective of current SDA values, doctrines?

Or would you say that these postings are reflective of small minds who want control of the board?

Twilight, you are arguing for something in which you want control...you want Stan to create a "public" forum in order to express creation values....And yet, the moderator has openly suggested that you post your ideas in his forum, in which all you have to do is ask to get in....

What's the matter with you? Too proud to ask?????

[Twilight]

I don't think anyone wants to hide the message of creation. It is the inflammatory comments and unchrisitian like insults thrown at each other that doesn't need to be in a public forum.

Then moderate the forum...

Every discussion has the potential to deviate into that kind of behaviour.

It is not the subject, it is the people in the discussion that is the issue.

Why differentiate between one subject over another?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The Adventist position on Creationism should be discussed in an open public forum.

Ooooh boy....IOWs, you want SDA values to representatively be shown publically... I take this to mean that you want a public forum where real SDAs can be seen by the public...

Believe it or not, I have argued this position in the moderators forums, which are closed to the public...There, acutual members [even the moderators themselves] and their postings have been discussed and pondered over.

Take a look at all the current postings in all forums....Would you say that most of these postings are reflective of current SDA values, doctrines?

Or would you say that these postings are reflective of small minds who want control of the board?

Twilight, you are arguing for something in which you want control...you want Stan to create a "public" forum in order to express creation values....And yet, the moderator has openly suggested that you post your ideas in his forum, in which all you have to do is ask to get in....

What's the matter with you? Too proud to ask?????

I find this board and many of the values expressed do represent SDA values.

This is not about me having control, it is about stopping the discusion of Creationism being controlled.

At the moment it is controlled.

One cannot even read the posts in the current forum.

If people want that, then that is fine.

But I personally am not into "secret discussions" of truths that should be presented to the world.

Have we ever hidden our beliefs?

Or avoided discussing them?

No.

So why are we doing that on this forum? :-)

[Bravus]

We are doing that because we had noticed that both here and elsewhere on the web origins discussions always tended to end up in unedifying pointless circular slanging matches. We wanted a place to discuss origins issues in which that could be avoided.

Maybe the people we have and the time in history now would enable us to operate an open Origins forum without it degenerating that way. I'm certainly willing to try the experiment.

But as I say, there were good sound reasons why the forum was set up as it was, several years ago, and it was *not* to hide truth from the world. It was to allow the discussion to proceed without rancor and viciousness.

[Twilight]

We are doing that because we had noticed that both here and elsewhere on the web origins discussions always tended to end up in unedifying pointless circular slanging matches. We wanted a place to discuss origins issues in which that could be avoided.

Maybe the people we have and the time in history now would enable us to operate an open Origins forum without it degenerating that way. I'm certainly willing to try the experiment.

But as I say, there were good sound reasons why the forum was set up as it was, several years ago, and it was *not* to hide truth from the world. It was to allow the discussion to proceed without rancor and viciousness.

Then open it up Bravus!

So that we can all participate in a public manner. :-)

[Neil D]

Not everyone want to delve into the chemistry and biology of creation/evolution discussions, Twilight...believe it or not, that sort of thing just bores them to death....

there are other reasons for NOT getting into the discussion...like priorities...if discussion of creation/evolution tends to set one off the emotional deep end, then it may be a good thing to focus one's posting on other things....like the hobbies forum or post with the idea that you can make friends with affirmative statements in distressing current situations....that sort of thing just doesn't seem to happen in discussion evolution or creation...

Quote:

I find this board and many of the values expressed do represent SDA values.

Yeah, I do too....I also find that many people want to control this board because they don't like the ideas that are expressed...For whatever reason, those posts [especially if they come from an educated moderator] flys in thier face, and they don't like the moderator because it seems that he's opposing thier ideas..That person then trys to control the board by creating another forum in which the well educated person is [somehow] circumvented.....

If you succeed in this endeavor, you will have to live with this stigma....

Quote:

But I personally am not into "secret discussions" of truths that should be presented to the world.

Have we ever hidden our beliefs?

Or avoided discussing them?

With the exception of the moderator's forum, there is no "secret discussions"...all you have to do is ask....

and this goes for anyone....If you want to know, ask in the Townhall forum,...Just post the following-

Hey guys and gals,

Is there a forum in which we talk about [ insert hobby, theme, subject of your choice] ? and can I join it?

There are lots of people, moderators and non-moderators alike, who are more than willing to direct you to the forum....and we haven't even told you of admin types and behind the scenes network types who are also willing to facilitate your desire to discuss anything to your Adventist Christian heart seeks....

but please don't do some sort of power play here...it makes you look stupid and nobody likes someone seeking control....

[Twilight]

please don't do some sort of power play here...it makes you look stupid and nobody likes someone seeking control....

Please stop judging my motives Neil.

Your comment on me looking stupid also breaks the board rules I believe?

[Neil D]

In context, with the stipulations that I put up there-

no, it doesn't.

but taken out of context...yeah, it does...

So, are you going to take me out of context???

[Twilight]

In context, with the stipulations that I put up there-

no, it doesn't.

but taken out of context...yeah, it does...

So, are you going to take me out of context???

Your comment was rude and judgemental.

And inappropriate.

[Twilight]

I forgive you however Neil.

[Twilight]

Now back to the point...

If we are going to have a moderated public forum, there should not be any problem that any other section of the forum does not have.

[Neil D]

Now back to the point...

If we are going to have a moderated public forum, there should not be any problem that any other section of the forum does not have.

So, you are saying that you are too proud to ask Bravus to join his public forum?

And let's make this clear, Twilight...just because you say so, there is no "hidden forum" on any SDA values, or creation/origion theme/subject....

So, therefore, ask Bravus to join his public forum....He's explained why it is set up the way it is..He's open to new ideas...why aren't you asking to join?

[Bravus]

I don't have the level of control to make the existing Origins forum public. I have already posted in this thread that I'm happy as moderator for that to happen, but the final decision remains with Stan and the admin team. I'm happy to abide by their judgement.

[Gail]

Bravus is brave! I've seen what became of the Origins forum before its present status. It was much like the theology or political ones. I agree with his comments here wholeheartedly.

[Twilight]

I don't have the level of control to make the existing Origins forum public. I have already posted in this thread that I'm happy as moderator for that to happen, but the final decision remains with Stan and the admin team. I'm happy to abide by their judgement.

Fair enough. :-)

[Twilight]

Bravus is brave! I've seen what became of the Origins forum before its present status. It was much like the theology or political ones. I agree with his comments here wholeheartedly.

I think the theology forum is a very positive forum in many respects and I enjoy the openness there.

There are always going to be issues with discussions that involve controversy, but that does not mean we should not face them in my view...

I think however that many of the problems that some of the discussion boards have on CA, is that there is only one moderator.

If there were three moderators to a forum then we would not have one person controlling a group.

I have found that most of my run-ins with moderators has been when they personally disagree with me.

They can close you down in a discussion, because they are the "king of the castle".

Look at the current Origins forum of which there is one moderator.

I am sorry, but he is on a hiding to nothing.

Why?

Because of his very strong evolutionary bias.

Now if there were three moderator's for that type of forum then there would be much more balance.

Is it not a biblical principle that one person is judged on the witness of three not one?

That is not how I have found it on CA at times.

A good healthy moderation team would be able to control any controversial forum.

But a single moderator, who will always have one type of bias or another, will not be able to.

So whilst we may say that "bad posters" cause the problem, maybe CA needs to look at how it sets up moderation in a group.

Maybe the moderation is the issue.

I hope you do not mind me challenging the status quo like this...

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

I of course reserve the right to be wrong Gail... :-)