Knowing Your Enemy: Satan's Attacks On SDAs

[John317]

At this time the special endowment of divine grace and power is not less needful to the church than in apostolic days.

Through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, the scenes of the long-continued conflict between good and evil have been opened to the writer of these pages. From time to time I have been permitted to behold the working, in different ages, of the great controversy between Christ, the Prince of life, the author of our salvation, and Satan, the prince of evil, the author of sin, the first transgressor of God’s holy law. Satan’s enmity against Christ has been manifested against his followers. The same hatred of the principles of God’s law, the same policy of deception, by which error is made to appear as truth, by which human laws are substituted for the law of God, and men are led to worship the creature rather than the Creator, may be traced in all the history of the past. Satan’s efforts to misrepresent the character of God, to cause men to cherish a false conception of the Creator, and thus to regard him with fear and hate rather than with love, his endeavors to set aside the divine law, leading the people to think themselves free from its requirements, and his persecution of those who dare to resist his deceptions, have been steadfastly pursued in all ages. They may be traced in the history of patriarchs, prophets, and apostles, of martyrs and reformers.

In the great final conflict, Satan will employ the same policy, manifest the same spirit, and work for the same end, as in all preceding ages. That which has been, will be, except that the coming struggle will be marked with a terrible intensity such as the world has never witnessed. Satan’s deceptions will be more subtle, his assaults more determined. If it were possible, he would lead astray the elect. Mark 13:22, Reevised Version.

As the Spirit of God has opened to my mind the great truths of his Word, and the scenes of the past and the future, I have been bidden to make known to others what has thus been revealed,—to trace the history of the controversy in past ages, and especially to so present it as to shed a light on the fast-approaching struggle of the future. In pursuance of this purpose, I have endeavored to select and group together events in the history of the church in such a manner as to trace the unfolding of the great testing truths that at different periods have been given to the world, that have excited the wrath of Satan, and the enmity of a world-loving church, and that have been maintained by the witness of those who “loved not their lives unto the death.”

The Great Controversy 1888, Page vii

[John317]

Neither wicked men nor devils can hinder the work of God or shut out his presence from his people, if they will, with subdued, contrite hearts, confess and put away their sins, and in faith claim his promises. Every temptation, every opposing influence, whether open or secret, may be successfully resisted, “not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.” [Zechariah 4:6.]

“The eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers.... And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?” [1 Peter 3:12, 13.] When Balaam, allured by the promise of rich rewards, practiced enchantments against Israel, and by sacrifices to the Lord, sought to invoke a curse upon his people, the Spirit of God forbade the evil which he longed to pronounce, and Balaam was forced to exclaim, “How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the Lord hath not defied?” “Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!” When sacrifice had again been offered, the ungodly prophet declared: “Behold, I have received commandment to bless; and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it. He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel; the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a King is among them.” “Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel. According to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!” [Numbers 23:8, 10, 20, 21, 23; 24:9.] Yet a third altar was erected, and again Balaam essayed to secure a curse. But from the unwilling lips of the prophet, the Spirit of God declared the prosperity of his chosen, and rebuked the folly and malice of their foes: “Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.” [Numbers 24:9.]

The people of Israel were at this time loyal to God; and so long as they continued in obedience to his law, no power in earth or hell could prevail against them. But the curse which Balaam had not been permitted to pronounce against God’s people, he finally succeeded in bringing upon them by seducing them into sin. When they transgressed God’s commandments, then they separated themselves from him, and they were left to feel the power of the destroyer.

Satan is well aware that the weakest soul who abides in Christ is more than a match for the hosts of darkness, and that, should he reveal himself openly, he would be met and resisted. Therefore he seeks to draw away the soldiers of the cross from their strong fortification, while he lies in ambush with his forces, ready to destroy all who venture upon his ground. Only in humble reliance upon God, and obedience to all his commandments, can we be secure. No man is safe for a day or an hour without prayer. Especially should we entreat the Lord for wisdom to understand his Word. Here are revealed the wiles of the tempter, and the means by which he may be successfully resisted. Satan is an expert in quoting Scripture, placing his own interpretation upon passages by which he hopes to cause us to stumble. We should study the Bible with humility of heart, never losing sight of our dependence upon God. While we must constantly guard against the devices of Satan, we should pray in faith continually, “Lead us not into temptation.”

The Great Controversy 1888, Page 529, 530

[John317]

So the names of the 12 apostles as the stones for the foundation are just a symbol too I suppose.

Nope.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

And I suppose the warning not to change anything in Rev. 22:18 and 19 are just symbols too?

Nope.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Well then, perhaps the whole great tribulation is just a symbol?

Nope.

[John317]

...And there you go folks, that is the problem with prophecy--it can't be understood,

The following verses contain the secret to understanding prophecy:

Daniel 12:10

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

2 Peter 3:14-18

Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. [15] And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, [16] as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. [17] You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. [18] But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

John 7:17

If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

Matthew 6:22-23

"The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, [23] but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

John 14:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

so hey-lets just pretend they are all symbols for whatever. Lets just pretend it was placed in the NT in order to be a delightful spiritual story. It's really not real and besides, everyone knows your saved by grace anyway!

Yes, all people are saved by God's grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

But no, nothing was placed in the NT to be merely a delightful spiritual story. The fact that something is symbolic does not mean it's unreal. For instance, Jesus is the Lamb of God, a symbolic name, yes, but also very real. Jesus is not really a lamb, of course, but He is really what the name, Lamb, points to, which is the God-Man who takes away the sin of the world.

The Apocalypse is full of such symbols, or signs. Rev. 1: 1 tells us straightfowardsly that Jesus had his angel put His messages in signs. It says that Jesus "sent and sign-i-fied it by His angel."

[John317]

...I want it to be known right now that I, for one, totally believe what Jesus gave to John to write down was so imporatant to be understood, that he made sure to write the warning against changing anything or adding to or taking away.

Rev. 22:18-19

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, [19] and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Whether you realize it or not, that warning is a warning to anyone who adds or takes away anything from the Holy Writings. God is not saying this only about the last book of the Bible but about the whole Bible. It makes no sense to believe that God has greater concern for the last book than he does for all the other books in the Bible.

If God would say this about the last book of the Bible, how foolish we would be to think that God would allow Satan to inspire his evil servants to write parts of the New Testament. God wouldn't do that any more than He would allow Satan to contribute his ideas and thoughts to the Old Testament, and we know that never happened. Neither did He allow Satan to introduce his false teachings into the testimony of the word of God. Otherwise, if He did allow this, it would not be the word of God but rather the word of the Devil.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

...I want it to be known right now that I, for one, totally believe what Jesus gave to John to write down was so imporatant to be understood, that he made sure to write the warning against changing anything or adding to or taking away.

Rev. 22:18-19

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, [19] and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Whether you realize it or not, that warning is a warning to anyone who adds or takes away anything from the Holy Writings. God is not saying this only about the last book of the Bible but about the whole Bible. It makes no sense to believe that God has greater concern for the last book than he does for all the other books in the Bible.

If God would say this about the last book of the Bible, how foolish we would be to think that God would allow Satan to inspire his evil servants to write parts of the New Testament. God wouldn't do that any more than He would allow Satan to contribute his ideas and thoughts to the Old Testament, and we know that never happened. Neither did He allow Satan to introduce his false teachings into the testimony of the word of God. Otherwise, if He did allow this, it would not be the word of God but rather the word of the Devil.

I heartily disagree with your understanding in this, John; and here is why:

At the time John received the visions that later became the book of Revelation the canon that later became known as the Bible was not yet assembled, and this include both the Old and New Testament. Our God is a God of order and structure, and is specific as to the content of prophecy. If this were not so then no one would ever be able to understand the prophecies. Therefore, when God gave "The Warning" in Rev.22:18-19 it was a specific application to the prophecies in the book of Revelation and no other book in the Bible. There is no objective evidence that God meant us to apply that warning to everything in the Bible as this would cause the belief that every single word in the Bible was given by God. Now I know that is what you believe, but that is not supported either by the direct words of God saying that this was true, or by the context and content of the warning itself.

[Dr. Rich]

I agree MM and now it is clear to me why my words here are not being heard. Facts don't mean anything to someone who has faith. Personally, I get down on myself many times when others make fun of me and call me names because of what I have said or written. Is it because they don't believe I am serious? Have I been deceived? If so, then why doesn't Satan leave me alone?

In Rev. 2:2 we see that God commended those in Ephesus for putting to the test those who called themselves apostles and found them to be false. But since God did not name them, we are left to to our own understanding--or are we?

Here is the thing: John wrote Revelation after Paul had written his letters--as most would agree. So if God knew the names of these who those in Ephesus put to the test, how come He did not name them? If God had named Paul as one of them in Revelation, what would have happened to the book of Revelation? As it was, it almost didn't get included in the NT anyway.

But get this, Paul himself verified it was him (Silas or Luke was probably the other) in the letters he sent to Timothy. Ephesus was then known as being in Asia. 2Tim. 1:15 tells us that Paul was aware of the fact that ALL of those in Asia turned away from his gospel and we can see that this was Ephesus as found in verse 18.

Acts even tells us (from Luke) that those who opposed Paul were also from Asia and they were saying that Paul was teaching people not to obey the law (covenant). I find this rather interesting. Why? Well, we see that Paul brought his gospel to Ephesus but that ALL of them turned away and now God told John to write about how He felt about what those at Ephesus did by commending them for finding out he was a false apostle. Perhaps this is why this is the first message in order for the present KOH to study this and also put him to the test and also find him to be a false apostle?

[John317]

... when God gave "The Warning" in Rev.22:18-19 it was a specific application to the prophecies in the book of Revelation and no other book in the Bible. There is no objective evidence that God meant us to apply that warning to everything in the Bible as this would cause the belief that every single word in the Bible was given by God. ....

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that the book of John's Gospel is inspired by God. In that case, do you believe that God would happily accept substanative changes in that book any more than He would accept changes in the Apocalypse?

Can't we logically apply the same principle to all the books that are inspired by God?

[John317]

I agree MM and now it is clear to me why my words here are not being heard. Facts don't mean anything to someone who has faith.

Faith is trust in God, Dr. Rich. Faith is the same as firm belief. Are you claiming that for people who have firm confidence, or trust, or belief in God, facts don't mean anything? Upon what basis do you think so?

Here's faith:

John 1:12

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

This verse is saying that God gives the right to become children of God to those who have firm faith in Christ's name or authority.

Habakkuk also says that rightoeous people live by their faith in God:

Habakkuk 2:1-20

I will take my stand at my watchpost

and station myself on the tower,

and look out to see what he will say to me,

and what I will answer concerning my complaint.

[2] And the Lord answered me:

"Write the vision;

make it plain on tablets,

so he may run who reads it.

[3] For still the vision awaits its appointed time;

it hastens to the end—it will not lie.

If it seems slow, wait for it;

it will surely come; it will not delay.

[4] "Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him,

but the righteous shall live by his faith.

[John317]

...Here is the thing: John wrote Revelation after Paul had written his letters--as most would agree. So if God knew the names of these who those in Ephesus put to the test, how come He did not name them? If God had named Paul as one of them in Revelation, what would have happened to the book of Revelation? As it was, it almost didn't get included in the NT anyway.

If a judge in a court of law knows without a doubt that a witness is lying, what do you say about the judge if he goes ahead and allows that liar to submit dishonest testimony in court and even be one of the main witnesses?

I don't believe that the God of the Old Testament would have allowed Paul to contribute those books to the Bible if God knew they were written under the inspiration of Satan. That would be totally contrary to the way God does things.

[John317]

While Satan is constantly seeking to blind their minds to the fact, let Christians never forget that they “wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places.” [Ephesians 6:12(Margin).] The inspired warning is sounding down the centuries to our time: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” [1 Peter 5:8.] “Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may able to stand against the wiles of the devil.” [Ephesians 6:11.]

From the days of Adam to our own time, our great enemy has been exercising his power to oppress and destroy. He is now preparing for his last campaign against the church. All who seek to follow Jesus will be brought into conflict with this relentless foe. The more nearly the Christian imitates the divine Pattern, the more surely will he make himself a mark for the attacks of Satan. All who are actively engaged in the cause of God, seeking to unveil the deceptions of the evil one and to present Christ before the people, will be able to join in the testimony of Paul, in which he speaks of serving the Lord with all humility of mind, with many tears and temptations.

Satan assailed Christ with his fiercest and most subtle temptations; but he was repulsed in every conflict. Those battles were fought in our behalf; those victories make it possible for us to conquer. Christ will give strength to all who seek it. No man without his own consent can be overcome by Satan. The tempter has no power to control the will or to force the soul to sin. He may distress, but he cannot contaminate. He can cause agony, but not defilement. The fact that Christ has conquered should inspire his followers with courage to fight manfully the battle against sin and Satan.

The Great Controversy 1888, Page 510

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

...Here is the thing: John wrote Revelation after Paul had written his letters--as most would agree. So if God knew the names of these who those in Ephesus put to the test, how come He did not name them? If God had named Paul as one of them in Revelation, what would have happened to the book of Revelation? As it was, it almost didn't get included in the NT anyway.

If a judge in a court of law knows without a doubt that a witness is lying, what do you say about the judge if he goes ahead and allows that liar to submit dishonest testimony in court and even be one of the main witnesses?

I don't believe that the God of the Old Testament would have allowed Paul to contribute those books to the Bible if God knew they were written under the inspiration of Satan. That would be totally contrary to the way God does things.

How would God legally stop Satan from doing just that, without appearing to remove 'free will' from those that would be impacted by that change? If God did not allow Satan access to 'holy writ' then Satan could and would be able to make the case that God is completely unfair in not giving him access to the very place that he needs in order to force a choice in the believer.

Did not God allow Satan access to the very place where God put Adam and Eve to separate them from the wickedness of the world around them, in the Garden of Eden? If the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God then there is no choice necessary or challenge to the authority of God, because then a believer would be automatically protected from the deceptions of Satan and they would not sin. Jesus even told His disciples that if they were not careful even THEY could be deceived (Matt.24:4-5). They were WITH Jesus and they were not protected from Satan, so why would God do anything different with us.

No, God MUST allow Satan access to the same places (the Bible and even the SoP) that God uses to teach truth, otherwise the accusation of Satan that God is using His advantage as the Ruler of the Universe unfairly in order to prevent His people from sinning would be true. God would protect us from deception if He could, but He can't.

[John317]

...But get this, Paul himself verified it was him (Silas or Luke was probably the other) in the letters he sent to Timothy. Ephesus was then known as being in Asia. 2Tim. 1:15 tells us that Paul was aware of the fact that ALL of those in Asia turned away from his gospel and we can see that this was Ephesus as found in verse 18.

Acts even tells us (from Luke) that those who opposed Paul were also from Asia and they were saying that Paul was teaching people not to obey the law (covenant). I find this rather interesting. Why? Well, we see that Paul brought his gospel to Ephesus but that ALL of them turned away and now God told John to write about how He felt about what those at Ephesus did by commending them for finding out he was a false apostle. Perhaps this is why this is the first message in order for the present KOH to study this and also put him to the test and also find him to be a false apostle?

What's interesting here, Dr. Rich, is that you are using the very writings that you claim are full of lies and deception from Satan to prove that Paul was of Satan. If you believe that, how can you be sure that any of it is true, including the testimony you are referring to?

I'm surprised that an attorney would miss this. There are so many holes in your argument that I hardly know where to begin.

In the first place, if Paul and Luke were the deceivers you make them out to be, why would they include all that evidence that you think favors your argument against Paul?

Do Wayfinder and Musicman and the rest of your Sabbath School class believe and teach what you are saying here? What I'm asking is whether this is an example of what's taught on the radio program.

[John317]

If a judge in a court of law knows without a doubt that a witness is lying, what do you say about the judge if he goes ahead and allows that liar to submit dishonest testimony in court and even be one of the main witnesses?

I don't believe that the God of the Old Testament would have allowed Paul to contribute those books to the Bible if God knew they were written under the inspiration of Satan. That would be totally contrary to the way God does things.

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

How would God legally stop Satan from doing just that, without appearing to remove 'free will' from those that would be impacted by that change?

How would God legally keep Satan from inspiring books of the Bible? Easily. The same way God did it in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Did God allow Satan to inspire parts of the Old Testament? If not, does this fact make it appear that God is removing free will from people who would be impacted?

And if God doesn't appear to be removing free will in that case, why would it appear that he's removing free will in the case of the NT?

Also, if the NT is full of Satan's words, how can it be called the word of God? Is it some words of God and some words of Satan? That would mean it's the word of Satan. Truth and lies mixed is nothing but a lie. If I testify in a court of law, and I mix lies with my testimony, I don't get credit for telling partial truths. My testimony would be considered a lie and any judge who knew it to be a lie but yet allowed it to be introduced as truthful testimony would also be considered undependable and unethical. It would be valid legal grounds for a dismissal. So, also, the Bible would be a lie if God allowed Satan to introduce lies into it.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Just came across this in the manuscript I'm editing:

Quote:

None are in greater danger from the influence of evil spirits than those who, notwithstanding the direct and ample testimony of the Scriptures, deny the existence and agency of the devil and his angels. So long as we are ignorant of their wiles, they have almost inconceivable advantage; many give heed to their suggestions while they suppose themselves to be following the dictates of their own wisdom. This is why, as we approach the close of time, when Satan is to work with greatest power to deceive and destroy, he spreads everywhere the belief that he does not exist. It is his policy to conceal himself and his manner of working. {GC 516.2}

There is nothing that the great deceiver fears so much as that we shall become acquainted with his devices. The better to disguise his real character and purposes, he has caused himself to be so represented as to excite no stronger emotion than ridicule or contempt. He is well pleased to be painted as a ludicrous or loathsome object, misshapen, half animal and half human. He is pleased to hear his name used in sport and mockery by those who think themselves intelligent and well informed. GC:516

If it's already been noted in this thread, please forgive me.. I haven't had time to keep track of all the remarks..

[John317]

...If it's already been noted in this thread, please forgive me.. I haven't had time to keep track of all the remarks..

No, that's all right. I don't think it has been, but even if it was already quoted, it can't be quoted too many times in this context. Thanks for posting it. I think they're some of the most important counsel about this that we could get.

[Dr. Rich]

And that, John is why we disagree--I guess. Because you believe God would NOT allow anything to get into the bible that was not inspired so that you can blame God for believing in a lie when the time comes up to enter that door.

"Hey, don't blame me God--it was in the bible!" "Hey, she said she got her visions from You God, so don't blame me, blame her." Oh well. "Hey, he said You knocked him off his horse and made him go blind, and I believed him, so don't blame me, blame him!"

Didn't Adam have the same excuse?

As for me, I have chosen to follow and obey ONLY the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. Pitty me, I have no one to blame but those eyewitnesses.

[John317]

What is your reponse to what I said in the last few posts I've made? Can you address the specific questions and statements?

You are right that I don't believe the God of the Bible allowed Lucifer to write any part of the Bible. As I said, that would make God's word no longer His word but Satan's word. It would mean God is like the judge who allows the jury to decide the truth on the basis of what he knows to be lies. What does society say about such judges?

It is Satan who would love Christians to believe that Paul or other prophets of God were his slaves instead of God's. When we go to the Bible, we can trust that it is God's word. If you believe you are hearing the voice of the devil when you study any of the books of the Bible, you are wrong. You are mistaking the Holy Spirit for the devil, which is a very serious, dangerous situation for you.

[Dr. Rich]

No John, it is clear you have not been to court lately or had to answer someone's pleading. Lawyers use the words of those who they disagree with to show and prove their point every day. If you stop of a few minutes and look at what I wrote you would notice that is exactly what I did--I used their own words--not mine.

More over, I have NEVER said that I do not use or read their words--I said that I would never use them as my foundation for my belief. Jesus said it is what comes out of the mouth that causes the problem, so I MUST read what others say to see what those problems are.

It would be stupid of a lawyer to not read the other side's pleading and not use words found in it to support his own view--just as it would be stupid not to read what Paul or Luke wrote and see the difference and find what they wrote that convicts them.

Would you not agree that one can't argue facts with someone who built their understanding out of faith alone?

[John317]

...Would you not agree that one can't argue facts with someone who built their understanding out of faith alone?

What is biblical faith? You seem clearly to have a misconception of what it means in the writings of Paul and in the rest of the Bible.

Do you really think that God saves any sinner on the basis of anything but His mercy and unmerited favor? Does God save people because they've earned it by their perfect obedience and their own righteousness?

[John317]

No John, it is clear you have not been to court lately or had to answer someone's pleading. Lawyers use the words of those who they disagree with to show and prove their point every day. If you stop of a few minutes and look at what I wrote you would notice that is exactly what I did--I used their own words--not mine.

I never said that lawyers don't use the words of people they disagree with. Of course they do.

But what I'm pointing out to you is that you claim the books of the Paul and Luke and others are full of lies. How then can you use their testimony about various events to show what the truth is? What you claim to be the truth in their writings just might be lies if those writings are lies.

How can you pick out certain portions and claim they are telling the truth, when you claim that the rest is a lie?

And why would Paul and Luke-- under the inspiration of Satan, as you claim-- write things that would prove that they are of Satan? Is Satan that stupid?

Do you honestly believe what you are saying about this?

Look in the above paragraphs by Ellen G. White and tell me which parts of those passages you believe to be of Satan.

[John317]

...."Hey, don't blame me God--it was in the bible!" "Hey, she said she got her visions from You God, so don't blame me, blame her." Oh well. "Hey, he said You knocked him off his horse and made him go blind, and I believed him, so don't blame me, blame him!"

Didn't Adam have the same excuse?

No, Adam didn't have the same excuse at all. He had God's command but then instead of trusting God's word, Adam accepted the word of someone else who directly contradicted God's.

Did God give Adam a command that was half God's word and half Satan's word and then tell Adam to figure out which is from God and which is from Satan? Of course not. Yet that is what you are claiming God has done: you say God gives His commands in His word mixed with Satan's commands and Satan's words.

God has never done this. He didn't do it to Adam and you admit that God didn't do it to Israel in the Old Testament.

But for some reason you think God changed his ways and is doing it to you and to all the other Christians in the world.

You have God saying, "Open your Bible and decide for yourself what is Satan's word and what is God's."

[John317]

...It would be stupid of a lawyer to not read the other side's pleading and not use words found in it to support his own view--just as it would be stupid not to read what Paul or Luke wrote and see the difference and find what they wrote that convicts them.

Where did I say a lawyer should never read the other side's pleading?

I said no judge would allow what he knows is a lie to be entered into the testimony as if it is the truth and not tell the jury about it.

What would you or society say about a judge who knowingly allows lies to be entered into the testimony that the jury hears under the supposition that it is the truth?

Wouldn't that be cause for dismissal of the case? Wouldn't that contaminate the whole decision process and the entire testimony?

If so, what does doing the same thing in the Scriptures make the Bible?

That is exactly what you claim the God of heaven is doing: mixing lies in with the truth in the Bible.

What would that make the Bible if not a pack of lies?

How the devil would love people to believe it! In that case, people wouldn't even pick it up, and I wouldn't blame them if this is what the Bible is, a mixture of truth and lies.

[John317]

And that, John is why we disagree--I guess. Because you believe God would NOT allow anything to get into the bible that was not inspired so that you can blame God for believing in a lie when the time comes up to enter that door.

You've mistated the case here, Dr. Rich. It's not a matter of "so that" I could blame God. That isn't what it's all about.

What is the reason that God did not allow anything from Satan to get into the Old Testament? Please answer this directly.

[John317]

...As for me, I have chosen to follow and obey ONLY the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. Pitty me, I have no one to blame but those eyewitnesses.

This where you go wrong-- thinking that you should only obey the words of Jesus in the books of Matthew and John.

What you don't appear to realize is that Mark and Luke got their words directly from eyewitnesses and were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so that in rejecting those words, you are rejecting the words of Jesus that you claim to accept.

When you accept the words of the apostle John in Revelation, aren't you in reality accepting the words of Jesus? And when people reject the Revelation, aren't they rejecting the words of Jesus?

If that is true of Revelation, it is also true of the other books that Jesus inspired, including the Old Testament and the writings of Paul and Luke. Do you believe it was the Spirit of Jesus that inspired all of the Old Testament and all of Matthew, John, John's letters, and the Revelation?