Can man stop sinning?

[Rasor11]

Hello,

Events have taken place within the last year that have lead me to search for God. In my search I began to take Bible studies. I have been receiving Bible studies from a pastor of the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement Church. He has said that in order to enter heaven that we have to be sin free. He says that unless we are able to completely stop all sin that we will not enter heaven.

My understanding is that man was born a sinner and will be a sinner until he dies. It is only through Christ's grace that we enter heaven. If what the pastor says is true, then I would think that no one would enter heaven.

Any comments would be helpfull.

[Gail]

And you would be correct. We are all sinners and that is why we need a Saviour! Jesus died for folks like us.

But if you surely want to follow Him all the way, as He asks us, you will see a miracle happen in your life. You will change. Jesus has plans for you and will not leave you to try to achieve what He Himself will do for you and in you.

The secret is to keep looking and learning from Him. When you see His happy way opened up before you, then ask Him to empower you to do what you cannot do for yourself. Surrender all that you are holding on to that hinders you and trust Him and REST in Him.

In this manner people have been healed from addictions, fears and whatever else you can think of that degrades humans. Christ restores dignity to our brokenness!

And thinking about heaven, you might not think that you are worthy for it, but Jesus knows where you are and His shed blood will cover you for what you lack.

[Gail]

Re: Being sin-free:

Even if you were sin-free, I don't know if you would recognize it. Trust in Jesus all the time. There is no other way. The Bible says that there is one name under heaven whereby we must be saved and that is through Christ.

[Rasor11]

I don't recal where the scripture he quoted is found but it said something along the lines that "no sinner will enter heaven". I will get the verse when I get home and post it.

What I am curious about is how is a sinner defined when the Bible says that sinners will not enter heaven. I believe that what is meant is a habitual and intentional sinner.

I have another study scheduled for later this week and I will pursue the matter further. Is there any scripture that helps define what is meant by sinner? Something that tells us that a person who occasionally and unintentionally sins will still enter heaven? To be clear I believe we should all live our lives trying to live upto the example set for us by Christ. I am not trying to excuse sin. I just want to learn what is correct as I am sure I will be spreading the gospel to others. I do not want to lead them dowm the wrong path. In my opinion believing that you can be sin free would lead to a life depression and a feeling of inadequacy.

[Gerr]

This may be what you have in mind:

"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him....No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 Jn 3:6,9 NIV

"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. ....No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." ESV

"No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him - deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].....No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knwingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God." AMPLIFIED

These have been most helpful to me. Years ago, I was caught up with the perfectionist movement in the 1970's. It became quite apparent very quickly that the harder I tried, the clearer it became that if God was expecting perfect performance from me that He would have to write me off. I believe that all believers can come to the point in their walk with God where sin becomes so heinous as it is in the sight of God that they no longer have the desire to hurt the heart of God intentionally or deliberately. But sins that bypass the will, i.e. unintentional, non-deliberatel sins will ALWAYS be with us until Jesus comes. I believe that these unintentional sins that we are guilty of and will continue to be guilty of is what John was referring to when he said, "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." 1 Jn 5:17 ESV.

If you want further Bible elucidation on intentional and non-intentional sins, study Nu 15 and also check out the cross references.

[John317]

Is the pastor distinguishing between those who are ready to be translated at the second coming and those who die before that time?

It is true that those who will go through the end-time events and are ready for Christ to come will not be practicing deliberate, known sin. But they won't be thinking of themselves as "sin free." They will still consider themselves as sinners in need of Christ's grace. But they will have confessed and overcome all known sin in their lives, as the Holy Spirit has convicted them of their sins.

No one will be sealed and be translated without seeing death who is continuing to practice known sin. That will be an impossibility.

The question you ask here is an important one and the plain and simple answer is Yes, man can stop sinning. Sin is a choice, not nature. It's true that we have sinful natures, but God will not condemn anyone for having a sinful nature. God has made it possible for man to choose not to sin. People will be condemned for their choices and for having rejected God's power to resist and overcome temptations.

Having said that, it's also necessary to understand that the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of all sins at once. He doesn't overwhelm us with guilt over all sins in our lives, because if He did, we would all give up. We have to be willing to give up our sins as the Holy Spirit brings convictions of them to our hears, and then as we resist and overcome a particular sin in our lives, the Holy Spirit will point out other sins that need to be overcome.

But the Bible answer to the question whether man can stop sinning is definitely YES. Christ provides the power for us to resist every temptation to sin. Believers are empowered by Christ to choose Him and to obey His commandments. No believer who has the Holy Spirit can be forced to sin, and no one will be able to claim that they had no choice but to go on sinning.

In the Investigative Judgment, however, God's isn't looking to see if people are completely sinless. God is looking for evidence of loyalty to Christ, not sinless perfection.

[John317]

...I believe that what is meant is a habitual and intentional sinner.

Yes.

[Rasor11]

Is the pastor distinguishing between those who are ready to be translated at the second coming and those who die before that time?

The distinction made is not clear. An example is given of a person who lies and and then dies shortly after without confessing his sin. I was told that this person would not make it to heaven.

The second example given was that at some point in the future we would have to stand on our own without a mediator and be without sin in order to be able to enter heaven.

[Dr. Shane]

My understanding of Scripture is that we can stop sinning intentionally. When we do fall (intentionally sin) we still have an Advocate with the Father so we are to confess our sins. I have found that if I dwell on it too much my head will explode. So I simple try to surrender to the Holy Spirit. To me, trusting in God means believing that His way is the best plan for my life. When tempted to do something wrong, I have learned to view such temptations as Satan's way of trying to sabotage my life. Most certainly some sinful behavior would bring my joy, pleasure or prosperity in the short term but God is looking out for me. God is looking at the long term. By obeying God I am trusting in His plan (which I may not understand) rather than my plan (which is in the immediate future and seems to promise joy, pleasure or prosperity). So rather than worrying about if my actions are going to get me to heaven or hell, I simply worry about whether I am following the divine path for my life or the human (my own) path for my life. If I am going to trust God, I must distrust self.

[Gail]

Quote:

The distinction made is not clear. An example is given of a person who lies and and then dies shortly after without confessing his sin. I was told that this person would not make it to heaven.

Rasor, I don't think it is always clear-cut to us mortals when we look at other people who will and won't be there. We are bound to stumble and fall many times during out walk with Jesus. Does God desert us when we do?

The Bible gives the example of Samson, who committed suicide and murdered thousands of Philistines with him AT HIS DEATH. Yet he is counted as one of the faithful in the list given in Hebrews 11.

The point is that Jesus is our Saviour and is able to save to the uttermost those who come to Him. Our end isto accept His sacrifice on your behalf and to utterly surrender to Him- your sinful desires, your weakness, your lack of faith. It is He who gives us victory, not only in the end but in our present life, too.

[Bravus]

I know *I* can't stop singing.

Wait, what?

[Gail]

Forgive my mixed-up pronouns in the post above. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say! Ask for clarification if you don't!

I do believe in a judgment, too, for the Bible says that it is appointed each man to die and after that the judgment. If you happen to live in the time when Jesus is coming then your judgment will have been done. When Christ comes in the clouds He brings His reward with Him (Isa.40:10, Rev.22:12), so in that sense those living when He comes WILL have to live a time without an intercessor. But it is not because you are sinless that you don't have an intercessor as much as He has already judged you faithful and you are safe and ready to go home. The reason you won't need an intercessor is because the decision has been made. Revelation describes the proclamation in 22:11, when it also declares that Christ's coming is "at hand".

We don't know when Christ will come, or when we will die. And if we live until Jesus comes again, we don't know when our judgment time will have taken place.

We do know that we are safe in Him! He who defeated the devil with His word and who is everlasting and all-powerful can defeat our bondage to sin.

[Gail]

I know *I* can't stop singing.

Wait, what?

Well, singing is another matter... :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I thought God accepts our best efforts and knows what we *want* to do, even though we slip and fall.

[phkrause]

The distinction made is not clear. An example is given of a person who lies and and then dies shortly after without confessing his sin. I was told that this person would not make it to heaven.

The second example given was that at some point in the future we would have to stand on our own without a mediator and be without sin in order to be able to enter heaven.

A pastor once told me that when you die its the direction of your life that is taken into consideration. So if you had just sinned before you died and didn't have time to confess will not be the determining factor, it will be our overall direction. And we will not stand alone, Christ will be our mediator.

[Dr. Shane]

I think ultimately everyone that would be happy in heaven will be there. The catch is that there will be no sin in heaven so those that love sin would never be happy in heaven and thus God will not put them there. God is not looking to punish sinners. He is looking to save sinners. It is when we cling to our sin that we become unfit for heaven. Let's say I have a cherished sin like gossiping. I know it's wrong but I love it too much and simply cannot give it up. In fact, I am not even willing to give it up. Well, I wouldn't be happy in heaven because I would not be able to gossip there. So in His loving kindness instead of putting me in heaven, it will be torch time - total annihilation.

[Gordon1]

And we will not stand alone, Christ will be our mediator.

Hi pk,

Many pastors preach smooth things.

Is Christ our Mediator after probation closes?

Can He mediate for one who willingly wears a spotted garment? - i.e. one who has opportunity, but neglects to confess known sin?

[Bravus]

Yes. It's heresy to claim that our own righteousness can *in any way* meet the requirements of a Holy God. Without Jesus' substitutionary sacrifice we've got *nothing*.

[Gordon1]

I think ultimately everyone that would be happy in heaven will be there...It is when we cling to our sin that we become unfit for heaven.

Shane, If we can agree that:

1) Sin is the transgression of the law, and

2) The law can be summed as loving God completely, and our neighbor as ourselves,

then..

Sin is rebellion against God or violence toward our neighbor.

If these thoughts cause us grief and trembling, then we are walking in the Saviour's shoes. But if one can easily turn from God's voice, or bruise a fellow man, then we are fitting ourselves for destruction at the second resurrection.

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (Matthew 12:37)

[Dr. Shane]

Jesus' message was that God has come to seek and save man, not to condemn him. God desires that no one perish. The fires of hell are intended to destroy Satan and his demonic angels, not human beings. The idea that God wants to punish men needs to be banished from our minds. God wants to save us. That is what the gospel is all about. God's first words to sinful man were "where are you?"

We have to work against God in order to be lost. Satan deceives us into doing exactly that. He presents sin as a means for us to achieve joy, pleasure, security, friendship and/or prosperity. In the short term, sin often brings us these things. But it is like the farmer eating his seed corn. The short term may be more pleasant but the long term results are disastrous.

Is sin the transgression of the law? Of course it is. The Bible says so.

Can the law be summed of as loving God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves? Of course, Jesus said so.

However the law must been seen and presented as the law of love. It is like a lantern to guide us on a narrow path through a dark forest. The law must not be seen as a stick God beats us with but rather a carrot that God lovingly gives us to guide us on a path of safety.

That said, obedience can only be rendered by the conscience mind. Many times we sin impulsively without giving it any thought. These are unintentional sins. Yes, they are still a transgression of the law. When we recognize them, we confess them and move on in our spiritual walk with God.

[Dr. Rich]

good post Gerry!

[Dr. Rich]

While there is no question that we all need to seek His righteousness, but keep in mind that it is our own choice we make to obey and seek His righteousness. We have no one but ourselves to blame for the choices we make.

By the way, this is agreat issue and some great replies!

While the narrow road will have just a few on it, Jesus did say His yoke was easy.

[LifeHiscost]

Probably another way to identify the problem of fallen man is to ask if anyone has stopped sinning as opposed to, is it possible.

There is only one type of person that will enter the kingdom of Heaven, and it will be a sinless one. However whoever enters in will have had the sins they committed expunged through the shed blood of Jesus.

The only ones who will not be allowed into the Kingdom are those unwilling to accept that shed blood for their cleansing, before the saved are allowed in to the spotless atmosphere of the heavenly abode.

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."1 Thess 4:14-16 NASB

"Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 NASB

While at the coming of Jesus, it is doubtful that the saints will be pursuing sin. However the Word will need to be changed if it does not correctly portray the condition of man.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly perverse and corrupt and severely, mortally sick! Who can know it [perceive, understand, be acquainted with his own heart and mind]?"Jeremiah 17:9 AMP

"If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;..."

1 Kings 8:45 KJV Bold mine LHC

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

The second example given was that at some point in the future we would have to stand on our own without a mediator and be without sin in order to be able to enter heaven.

That one use to bother me too, until I read the Word.

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”"Hebrews 13:5 NKJV

And these three tell me the difference between the two paths being followed at the coming of Jesus.

"To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."Colossians 1:27 NKJV

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."Philippians 2:13 KJV

"For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit."Romans 8:5 AMP

God Blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

...keep in mind that it is our own choice we make to obey and seek His righteousness. We have no one but ourselves to blame for the choices we make.

"" You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you."John 15:16 NASB

God blesses!