Should vegaterianism be a test of fellowship?

[Rasor11]

I definitively believe that a vegetarian lifestyle is a wise choice. However, should it be a condition of fellowship?

[Liz]

No.

[phkrause]

Fellowship for what? Being a SDA or a church member?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I definitively believe that a vegetarian lifestyle is a wise choice. However, should it be a condition of fellowship?

only if you belong to Club Vegetarian..

[Rasor11]

Fellowship for what? Being a SDA or a church member?

A SDA church member

[Jeannieb43]

Where in the Bible does it say one should be a vegetarian in order to be a Christian?

I don't think it does.

Where else would an SDA get the basis for our religious practices, if not from the Bible?

So. There's no reason to make vegetarianism a test of fellowship.

[Dr. Shane]

I do think it needs to be a test of fellowship for PETA. I can't see how someone can belong to PETA and eat meat.

The Adventist church is a different story.

"Tea, coffee, tobacco and alcohol we must present as sinful indulgences. We cannot place on the same ground meat, eggs, butter, cheese and such articles placed upon the table.These are not to be borne in front, as the burden of our work." (3SM p. 287)

[Gordon1]

Certainly a test for one's fellowship with cows, chickens and piglets.

[GreatLakesGramma]

No.

[Gordon1]

Shane, the fuller context of your quoted passage includes:

• "In the beginning animal food was not designed to be the diet of man. We have every evidence that the flesh of dead animals is dangerous because of the disease that is fast becoming universal, because of the curse resting more heavily in consequence of the habits and crimes of man. We are to present the truth." 3SM 287-8, 1881.

It's almost 130 years since we had 'every evidence' - several generations of flesh eating.

[Dr. Shane]

Gordon, that early portion of the passage only serves to emphasize that eating meat and dairy is not a sin and vegetarianism is not to be "borne in front, as the burden of our work." Yes, meat eating is unhealthful. Yes, God desires us to prosper in good health. No, it is not a sin. No, it is not the burden of our work.

Just a note: I am a pescatarian. I was previously a vegan but changed for health reasons. The Loma Linda health study showed pescatarians outliving both vegans and lacto-ovos.

[Jeannieb43]

Pescatarian = one who eats fish?

I personally am a vegetarian. I get Omega-3 in fish oil capsules (recommended by my doctor).

[Gordon1]

Hi Shane,

Nowhere does the passage state that animal foods are acceptable or unsinful, merely that that they should "not be borne in front as the burden of our work".

IOW, abstention from animal products is not part of the outreach message to unbelievers in 1881, whereas "tea, coffee tobacco, and alcohol we must present as sinful indulgences."

This thread concerns 'a test of fellowship', so your assertions are valid. But the general question of flesh eating within the body of believers is treated in a different tone - i.e. unsafe and unsound.

The moral implications of a flesh & animal diet are addressed in the following chapter of 3SM entitled Spiritual and Physical Hazards of Indulged Appetite - p. 289. Mrs. White strongly warns of the grave moral consequences from such habits: "spiritual eyesight beclouded", "counter to the will of God", "will lead to a disregard for God's law", "lessening..susceptibility of the soul to realize the force of truth."

"Eating the flesh of dead animals has an injurious effect upon spiritualty. When meat is made the staple article of food, the higher faculties are overborne by the lower passions. These things are an offense to God, and are the cause of a decline in the spiritual life..." (All 1896)

"The Lord has been teaching his people that it is for their spiritual and physical good to abstain from flesh eating." (1901)

Selected Messages Book 3 (3 SM), pp.289-91

If God wanted me to eat fish or butter, I would do so. But He has told me to leave them alone, along with many former habits. Medical researchers will one day bow to the Great Physician and even worship at the saint's feet. I know their ways first hand but appreciate that your convictions differ from mine.

Whatever our choices we must faithfully represent the counsel just as it's been recorded for our admonition. I'm sure you agree.

[remnant]

No, it should not be a test. Although it is possibly seen as a sin to these people in 1 Timothy 4, these others in Acts 10: 9 - 15 maybe exempted.

Being that the meat today has so many chemicals in it, I can liken it to a famine. Eat what makes you well. Don't forget to bless it.

[John317]

I definitively believe that a vegetarian lifestyle is a wise choice. However, should it be a condition of fellowship?

The short answer is, no, it shouldn't be.

Although Christ ate fish and probably lamb and goat while he was on earth, I believe He would be a vegetarian if He were among us today. But I really don't believe that Christ would approve of our making church membership or fellowship depend on whether people eat meat or not. We need to allow for spiritual growth and not cast off people because they don't see the issue of diet exactly as we do. After all, the the Bible nowhere condemns the eating of clean meat.

We need to remember, too, that Christ and the disciples ate meat, and so did Ellen White for most of her life. So if we say we don't want to fellowship with people who aren't vegetarian, we would be rejecting both the Lord and the Lord's prophet.

Having said that, I do believe that God wants to lead us to give up a meat diet. But it needs to be based on persuasion, education, and personal conviction.

[Gerr]

I definitively believe that a vegetarian lifestyle is a wise choice. However, should it be a condition of fellowship?

NO!!!

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, all meat eaters should exclude vegans and vegetarians from fellowship. The meat eaters are in the majority after all...

:smilewink:

[Rasor11]

Just to be clear I will explain why I asked the question. I was born into the Catholic faith. As I grew I found I could not agree with much of the doctrine so I left the church and did not attend any church for many years. I was then introduced to the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement. For those who have not heard of them, they are an offshoot from the Seventh Day Adventist Church. They are also known as the International Missionary Society (IMS). I was considering being baptized into the church but have trouble with that fact that one condition of baptizm is vegetarianism. It is for this reason that I asked the question. I am considering leaving the IMS and attending the original SDA church. I wanted some input on these issues prior to making a final decision. I will post other issues I have with the IMS on a separate post at a later time.

[Gordon1]

so did Ellen White [eat meat] for most of her life.

Hi John - Are you sure of this?

"But since the Lord presented before me, in June, 1863, the subject of meat-eating in relation to health, I have left the use of meat." Spiritual Gifts Vol. 4a. p. 153 (1864)

"I have not taken one step back since the light from heaven upon this subject first shone upon my pathway. I broke away from everything at once, - from meat and butter, and from three meals, - and that while engaged in exhaustive brain labour.." 2 Testimonies 371. -from a sermon in Battle Creek as recorded by U. Smith, March 6, 1869.

Mrs. White would have been 36 in 1863, yet lived an additional 52 years. Partaking of kosher flesh in an annual ceremony like Passover or in case of deprivation would be another matter from one's established routine. (The passover lamb was the family pet and not eaten with gusto, but remorse).

Razor11 - Welcome. It's no test for baptism. Ask those ministers if they're following all the light on health. It's rarely the case. The only baptismal condition seems to be found in Acts 8:37 where the Ethiopian eunuch testifies "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" to the approval of Phillip.

[Tom Wetmore]

Your history is a bit off, Gordon. According to the White Estate, thanks to the research of Roger Coon, Ellen White did not stop using flesh food until the 1890's, even though she may have reduced her intake of meat or may have abstained from it for periods of time before that. She stuck to her pledge to stop eating meat in 1894, but that did not include sea food. She continued to eat fish for a number of years after that. According to Coon, she stopped eating fish in 1898. Rather than 52 years of the vegetarian life you suggest, she was a complete vegetarian for at most the last 17 years of her life. It apparently took her 35 years to get her own message...

[doug yowell]

Your history is a bit off, Gordon. According to the White Estate, thanks to the research of Roger Coon, Ellen White did not stop using flesh food until the 1890's, even though she may have reduced her intake of meat or may have abstained from it for periods of time before that. She stuck to her pledge to stop eating meat in 1894, but that did not include sea food. She continued to eat fish for a number of years after that. According to Coon, she stopped eating fish in 1898. Rather than 52 years of the vegetarian life you suggest, she was a complete vegetarian for at most the last 17 years of her life. It apparently took her 35 years to get her own message...

Yep.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Rasor11

I definitively believe that a vegetarian lifestyle is a wise choice. However, should it be a condition of fellowship?

NO!!!

Never has been.Never will be.

[doug yowell]

Yes, all meat eaters should exclude vegans and vegetarians from fellowship. The meat eaters are in the majority after all...

:smilewink:

I could start eating a good hamberger once in a while if necessary. Would that get me back in?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Fellowship for what? Being a SDA or a church member?

A SDA church member

Than no would be my answer.

[Gordon1]

According to the White Estate...It apparently took her 35 years to get her own message...

George Knight has company.