The Tithe principle....

[tribeofjudah]

I hope you find this in the correct Forum...(sorry). Mods, Please divert to correct Forum if not...

Many here faithfully return tithes and offerings. I say return because I don't like to say "give"...for God owns everything and I simply return a portion. I've read Malachi 3:8 about NOT robbing God.

1. the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof

2. HE own a thousand cattles on a thousand hills

I've heard about Double tithing (20%) and I think this is a Faith statement by alot of individuals....by that, I mean that they have faith that God will use the return and pour out a blessing that there won't be room enough to recieve it...

So my friend criticized me for Double tithe. He said that it's like an "insult" to God that I am giving more back. What do you think?

I explained to my friend the origins of tithing way back to Abraham and the purpose of funding the Levites and priests during Israels early days (because they didn't work as regular folks with regular jobs and didn't earn money otherwise, if not for the tithe)....

What my friend said kind of bothered me. Am I insulting God by returning more...???

[phkrause]

I you find this in the correct Forum...(sorry). Please divert to correct Forum if not...

Many here faithfully return tithes and offerings. I say return because I don't like to say "give"...for God owns everything and I simply return a portion. I've read Malachi about NOT robbing God.

1. the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof

2. HE own a thousand cattles on a thousand hills

I've heard about Double tithing (20%) and I think this is a Faith statement by alot of individuals....by that, I mean that they have faith that God will use the return and pour out a blessing that there won't be room enough to recieve it...

So my friend criticized me for Double tithe. He said that it's like a "insult" to God that I am giving more back. What do you think?

I explained to my friend the origins of tithing way back to Abraham and the purpose of funding the Levites and priests during Israels early days (because they didn't work as regular folks with regular jobs).... What my friend said kind of bothered me. Am I insulting God by returning more...???

Hi and welcome to the forum tribeofjudah. Great post. I agree about the tithe being the Lords and we are just returning it to who has seen fit to let us use it. As far as a double portion, I believe its up to the individual. My Mom does that, even though some tell her not to do this because she doesn't really have the money. But she has been blessed.

[Gordon1]

Welcome ToJ,

"No less than one third of their income was devoted to sacred and religious purposes." 3 Testimonies 395.

Or one could ask the question - Who blesses me more - my friend or God?

[LifeHiscost]

What my friend said kind of bothered me. Am I insulting God by returning more...???

I'm not sure there is any prescribed way or amount that one would return to God beyond the Tithe. Unless it might be this.

" “Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring Me an offering. From everyone who gives it willingly with his heart you shall take My offering."Ex 25:2 NKJV

OTOH, for many years I only returned the tithe because it seemed there just was not that much discretionary income available.

Then one day I asked the Lord to give me(us) enough to pay off all our creditors before I died as I felt it dishonoring to God for one of His children to leave a bundle of unpaid obligations for Him or others with which to deal.

Within a matter of a few weeks we not only received enough to pay off more than 60K in largely medical bills that had accumulated over a matter of 20 years, but we are able also to, without deprivation, help support a number of our favorite evangelistic personalities who are spreading the gospel around the world.

And we have also been able to walk up to some of the homeless that seem to be on every corner, and tell them Jesus sent us to help them. Maybe you can imagine the joy that gives, when you go to bed that night and realize you are the hand God used that day, to help someone know Jesus is concerned about their very practical needs, while He shows in the calamities of the world we need only to submit to Him to receive this grace,

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. ".

1 Corinthians 2:12 NKJV

I'm sure I've missed many opportunities to serve God as a result of this,

"...You do not have because you do not ask.

You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures."James 4:2-4

NASB

God blesses!

[tribeofjudah]

Thank you for your responses. I know that God knows our hearts....I only pray that the Holy Spirit moves me to return more and more according to his will and for his Kingdom.

[LifeHiscost]

Thank you for your responses. I know that God knows our hearts....I only pray that the Holy Spirit moves me to return more and more according to his will and for his Kingdom.

I cannot think of a better motive and plan to start a worry free

life with God.

"And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’"Acts 20:34 NLT

God blesses!

[nuff sed]

Last night I sat down and wrote a lengthy discourse on what I think of the whole idea of double tithing.................and promptly lost it.

I, personally, do not think that we need to 'double tithe'.. The Biblical principle is 10%.............Having said that... we must heed the Biblical injunction about robbing God. When we tithe we have done nothing more than what God "requires' of us.....BUT..... Mal.3:8 tells us that we have robbed God of tithes and "Offerings".... So... we bring an additional amount from a heart of love as an 'offering' to Him.

I have accepted my church organization as the 'storehouse' as mentioned also in Malachi. I do so because I believe that it is God's remnant and I do not see where else the 'storehouse' would be located. I accept the premise that tithe funds will be used for evangelism, pastors' salaries and other entities that 'the storehouse' has deemed appropriate.

Once I have done this I do not consider tithe money to be mine any longer and do not feel that it is my duty to 'be sure that it is being used as "I" think it should be. That's what we have auditors for. My father was a denominational auditor for 18 years and considered himself the 'people's representativ' of how the funds were being spent.

Even though I said previously that I do not 'double-tithe'...I do follow the denomination's plan of 10 + 10.

The second 10% we break down by percentages to various entities of the church or other organizations we choose to support. Sometimes we choose to help out someone or an organization locally for a period of time. We then adjust the percentages accordingly . It just might be that for a month or two no Adventist organization receives anything from the second 10%.( sorry VOP,IIW ) I am not advocating that you follow this procedure but this is what "we" do. Nuff sed....

[Haldog]

Tithing is an Old Covenant requirement. With the New Covenant of Grace there is absolutely no requirement or need to tithe. There are no Priests or Levites who are not allowed to own land and who must maintain the Temple, the Temple was torn down almost 2000 years ago.

[nuff sed]

IF.......you are a Seventh-day Adventist who follows not only the Bible but the counsels of Ellen White and do not return tithe you will have a hard time explaining what the 208 references to tithing in the Index to the Writings of Ellen G White mean. If you also feel that God's Law (LOVE) was done away with when God instituted the

New Covenant" , then I feel sorry for you............. Nuff sed

[LifeHiscost]

Tithing is an Old Covenant requirement. With the New Covenant of Grace there is absolutely no requirement or need to tithe. There are no Priests or Levites who are not allowed to own land and who must maintain the Temple, the Temple was torn down almost 2000 years ago.

I subscribe to the everlasting covenant.

" And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you."Galatians 3:29 NLT

I love giving to God. He asks us to prove Him in this action. As a result He has placed joy in my life instead of enslavement.

" Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test!"

Malachi 3:10 NLT

One is not required to tithe. One can forego the privilege to give to our Father. The promises are given for the tithe payer.

Maybe someone has a way they can circumvent God's express plan to provide for His own but I see no place in the Word that replaces it nor that provides for the peace and lack of covetousness it induces in the soul that makes a practice of it.

God blesses!

[doug yowell]

Welcome ToJ,

"No less than one third of their income was devoted to sacred and religious purposes." 3 Testimonies 395.

Talk about adding injury to insult!!Imagine the consequences that await the disrespectful deviant who was involved in the actions of Mark 12:41-44!!Takes a lot of nerve to go that radical in God's face!

[cbmilne33]

This topic reminds me of the regime of Herbert W.Armstrong of the Worldwide Church of God(which has now splintered into Grace Communion International the other splits)which had three tithes 1 the usual Church Tithe,2 the Welfare Tithe,3 the Feast of Tabernacles etc Tithe.Is the SDA basically like a gigantic version of the former WCG?By the way I would like the SDA to throw open its entire network of local churches to give all members etc of the smaller Sabbatarian Churches there own local congregation to go to.Maybe we could help to set up a common set of tithing laws for all churches regardless of fellowship.

[LifeHiscost]

Talk about adding injury to insult!!Imagine the consequences that await the disrespectful deviant who was involved in the actions of Mark 12:41-44!!Takes a lot of nerve to go that radical in God's face!

I'm not at all sure what it is you're referring to in this remark, doug.

God Blesses!

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Haldog

Tithing is an Old Covenant requirement. With the New Covenant of Grace there is absolutely no requirement or need to tithe. There are no Priests or Levites who are not allowed to own land and who must maintain the Temple, the Temple was torn down almost 2000 years ago.

I subscribe to the everlasting covenant.

" And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you."Galatians 3:29 NLT

I love giving to God. He asks us to prove Him in this action. As a result He has placed joy in my life instead of enslavement.

" Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test!"

Malachi 3:10 NLT

One is not required to tithe. One can forego the privilege to give to our Father. The promises are given for the tithe payer.

Maybe someone has a way they can circumvent God's express plan to provide for His own but I see no place in the Word that replaces it nor that provides for the peace and lack of covetousness it induces in the soul that makes a practice of it.

God blesses!

This is so true LHC. In the last three years I have put God to the test. And he hasn't let me down. I lost my job 3 years ago and was getting about 1/4-1/3 of what I had been getting from my job. Than last March my wife became disabiled, and even though we had lots of bills, etc. we continued to give back a portion of what he has so graciously given us. He has been so good to us its just unbelievable. Actually its not unbelievable, it truly is believable because as Malachi 3:10 states he will bless us.

[larryboy]

I think of the voices of those who tell us HOW to tithe. The important thing to remember is that tithe is calculated on the INCREASE. I once had a conference treasurer tell me to tithe on a certain line on my tax form.... it may be a simple rule of thumb for most people who are employed but it is not accurate for a business owner in my area. There can be certain things added to income as well as taken away from income that truly become your "increase". Further, what about self-employment taxes? Haven't reached a conclusion about this one but is it an increase if the cost of doing business IS those taxes?

I also had another treasurer tell me, because I normally didn't give my tithe until the end of the year, that I should give my tithe all along -- estimate and average it out. Well, I tried that and ended up paying a LOT of "donations" (not tithe) when at the end of the year I had a LOSS in my business. Church workers should not be so free to give "direction" when they don't have a clue how businesses work -- the business owner may not be realizing a profit, and if he/she is in September doesn't mean that some unexpected expense will arise and cause a loss for the year in November. You can say, "just pay on the gross income"... Right, my gross has been over 300,000 in a year yet I had a loss. If I had paid tithe on that, I would have had to borrow more money on top of what I did just to live that year. It amazes me how other people always seem to have the answers for other people yet they are forgetting the PRINCIPLE of tithe.

Regarding the matter on double-tithing or "you can never outgive the Lord"... First of all, tithe is 10% PERIOD. Anything above that is a mere offering. Second, outgiving the Lord should not be used as a guilt tactic nor should it be a motivator WHY anyone gives to the Lord's work. It is an irrelevant argument. People should not give guilt especially where guilt is not due from the Holy Spirit. I find the people that talk about double tithing to be boastful, haughty, arrogant and self-righteous.

Lastly, God is good and keeps his promise that we will have everything we NEED. Sometimes the blessing is in NOT making money! Trust doesn't mean you pay tithe when you don't have an increase, trust is believing He is still in control and will give what we NEED.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Talk about adding injury to insult!!Imagine the consequences that await the disrespectful deviant who was involved in the actions of Mark 12:41-44!!Takes a lot of nerve to go that radical in God's face!

I'm not at all sure what it is you're referring to in this remark, doug.

God Blesses!

Cryptic sarcasm. Saying that giving more than 10% back to God is an insult to God is itself an insult both to God and to human intelligence.Did you read Mark 12:41-44?

[doug yowell]

I think of voices of the those who tell each of us HOW to tithe. The important thing to remember is that tithe is figured on the INCREASE. I once had a conference treasurer tell me to tithe on a certain line on my tax form.... it may be a simple rule of thumb for most people who are employed but it is not accurate for a business owner in my area. There can be certain things added to income as well as taken away from income that truly become your "increase". Further, what about self-employment taxes? Haven't reached a conclusion about this one but is it an increase if the cost of doing business IS those taxes?

I also had another treasurer tell me, because I normally didn't give my tithe until the end of the year, that I should give my tithe all along -- estimate and average it out. Well, I tried that and ended up paying a LOT of "donations" (not tithe) when at the end of the year I had a LOSS in my business. Church workers should not be so free to give "direction" when they don't have a clue how businesses work -- the business owner may not be realizing a profit, and if he/she is in September doesn't mean that some unexpected expense will arise and cause a loss for the year in November. You can say, "just pay on the gross income"... Right, my gross has been over 300,000 in a year yet I had a loss. If I had paid tithe on that, I would have had to borrow more money on top of what I did just to live that year. It amazes me how other people always seem to have the answers for other people yet they are forgetting the PRINCIPLE of tithe.

.

It would seem self evident that tithe was Biblically supposed to be tied to one's increase. My guess is that those conference treasurers that counseled you were both Democrats.

[phkrause]

It would seem self evident that tithe was Biblically supposed to be tied to one's increase. My guess is that those conference treasurers that counseled you were both Democrats.

Not sure why everything has to come down to democrats or republicans? Such a shame that we have to lower are standards to politics Doug.

[doug yowell]

Regarding the matter on double-tithing or "you can never outgive the Lord"... First of all, tithe is 10% PERIOD. Anything above that is a mere offering. Second, outgiving the Lord should not be used as a guilt tactic nor should it be a motivator WHY anyone gives to the Lord's work. It is an irrelevant argument. People should not give guilt especially where guilt is not due from the Holy Spirit.

Guilt? Never!! Unless,of course, the professed Christian is returning NO TITHE!I think that the concept of robbing God would be appropriate there. But motivation? Why not? What's wrong with testing God's claim to repay your sacrifices with better blessings? If one does so with the understanding that those blessings may not be in monetary terms,or may not be realized until after the resurrection, then why not be motivated by the challenge?

[doug yowell]

Not sure why everything has to come down to democrats or republicans? Such a shame that we have to lower are standards to politics Doug.

Another attempt at humor distained!!

[Woody]

Quote:

In the last three years I have put God to the test. And he hasn't let me down. I lost my job 3 years ago and was getting about 1/4-1/3 of what I had been getting from my job. Than last March my wife became disabiled, and even though we had lots of bills, etc. we continued to give back a portion of what he has so graciously given us. He has been so good to us its just unbelievable. Actually its not unbelievable, it truly is believable because as Malachi 3:10 states he will bless us.

Appreciate your dedication and faith pk.

When you give though do you expect that God will bless you with monitary blessings? Do you do this out of faith that it will be returned to you as you have returned to Him?

[doug yowell]

I find the people that talk about double tithing to be boastful, haughty, arrogant and self-righteous.

I don't think that's a fair analysis,LB.Maybe some are but most are just excited about what they've experienced in their journey.I've never heard anyone demand a mandatory double tithe/offering,or attempt to degrade anyone else for not doing so.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Not sure why everything has to come down to democrats or republicans? Such a shame that we have to lower are standards to politics Doug.

Another attempt at humor distained!!

Than why not say republicans?

[doug yowell]

Not sure why everything has to come down to democrats or republicans? Such a shame that we have to lower are standards to politics Doug.Do you really want me to continue in the political vein,pk?

[Woody]

Quote:

Than why not say republicans?

Because it is well known that Demos are famous for wanting to get money out of citizens through the form of taxes. Republicans are known for trying to get government out of the pockets of the tax payers.