The Sin Against the Spirit

[Guest]

The Sin Against the Spirit

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Mat_12:31.

I will address these lines to those who have had light, those who have had privileges, those who have had warnings and entreaties, who have made no determined effort to yield themselves in full surrender to God. I would warn you to fear lest you sin against the Holy Ghost, and be left to your own course, sunk in moral lethargy, and never obtain forgiveness.

Why allow yourselves to be longer educated in the school of Satan, and pursue a course of action that will make repentance and reformation impossible? Why resist the overtures of mercy? Why say, "Let me alone," until God shall be compelled to give you your desire, since you will have it so?

Those who resist the Spirit of God think that they will repent at some future day, when they get ready to take a decided step toward reformation; but repentance will then be beyond their power. According to the light and privileges given will be the darkness of those who refuse to walk in the light while they have the light.

No one need look upon the sin against the Holy Ghost as something mysterious and indefinable. The sin against the Holy Ghost is the sin of persistent refusal to respond to the invitation to repent. If you refuse to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour, you love darkness rather than light, you love the atmosphere that surrounded the first great apostate. You choose this atmosphere rather than the atmosphere that surrounds the Father and the Son, and God allows you to have your choice. But let no soul be discouraged by this presentation of the matter. Let no one who is striving to do the will of the Master be cast down.

Hope thou in God. The Lord Jesus has made it manifest that He regards you at an infinite estimation. He left His royal throne, He left His royal courts, He clothed His divinity with humanity, and died a shameful death upon the cross of Calvary, that you might be saved.--Review and Herald, June 29, 1897.

Ye Shall RecievePower- EGW

[Bravus]

But, you know, advocate torture and all's good...

[Bravus]

Sorry, I normally try really hard to, but for pity's sake. This steaming pile of guilt-tripping evil at the top of the thread is bad enough, but in the context where a large number of people here are actively condoning torture, it's just unconscionable. Turn up to church on the right day, don't put the wrong music on your iPod. But torture a fellow human being - yep, no worries at all!

Not to mention that my word were completely civil. A little sarcastic, perhaps, but no name-calling, profanity or anything else objectionable. A dose of truth, but if that's objectionable we're in real trouble.

[Guest]

Sorry, I normally try really hard to, but for pity's sake. This steaming pile of guilt-tripping evil at the top of the thread is bad enough, but in the context where a large number of people here are actively condoning torture, it's just unconscionable. Turn up to church on the right day, don't put the wrong music on your iPod. But torture a fellow human being - yep, no worries at all!

Not to mention that my word were completely civil. A little sarcastic, perhaps, but no name-calling, profanity or anything else objectionable. A dose of truth, but if that's objectionable we're in real trouble.

So listening to the Holy Spirit would be torture for you? Ellen White's writings are evil? Very telling. I can't really say that I'm all that surprised. I guess I should say thanks for being honest about how you really feel, and where you are spiritually.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness...

[Bravus]

Don't let me hijack the thread.

Come on people, weigh in. Not sure what there is to say about that quote, though, since it already says it all.

If you want holy permission to look down on everyone unlike you, it's a one-stop shop.

Dang it, there I go again. Maybe someone *can* find something positive in it.

Shutting up and listening now.

[Guest]

a truck load of assumption since Bravus neither or spoke about the H*S or EGW.

A truck load of assumption? The post was written by EGW, about the Holy Spirit. What did YOU think he was speaking about? To get attacked for posting a page out of an EGW devotional book, on an Adventist forum, now THAT is sad.

And by one of the "moderators" no less.

[Guest]

Don't let me hijack the thread.

A little late for that, don't you think?

[John317]

What exactly do you find fault with Ellen White's writing as Richard posted?

[John317]

I agree, Richard.

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Don't let me hijack the thread.

A little late for that, don't you think?

You weren't attacked in my initial post. That post was about advocacy of torture in another discussion here, juxtaposed against what you posted. You weren't attacked in my second post explaining myself either, although the quote you posted was.

Maybe I hijacked the thread, but I posted long after your original post, and didn't have to fight my way through a maze of supportive posts to do so. Why do you think that was?

I stand by the view that the original quote is evil, regardless of who it was written by. The fact that you felt the desire to post it and your follow-up comments show that you are infected with the same evil. I will explain those comments in a bit more detail when I'm typing on a computer instead of a phone.

But yes, I fight evil wherever I find it. If that means I shouldn't be a moderator, well I've offered my resignation a number of times without it being accepted, and have plenty of support.

[John317]

...I stand by the view that the original quote is evil, regardless of who it was written by. The fact that you felt the desire to post it and you follow-up comments show that you [Richard Holbrook] are infected with the same evil.

Is the following what you are saying is evil? What lines are evil in your thinking?

What evil do you see here that you are saying Richard is infected with?

Quote:

The Sin Against the Spirit

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Mat_12:31.

I will address these lines to those who have had light, those who have had privileges, those who have had warnings and entreaties, who have made no determined effort to yield themselves in full surrender to God. I would warn you to fear lest you sin against the Holy Ghost, and be left to your own course, sunk in moral lethargy, and never obtain forgiveness.

Why allow yourselves to be longer educated in the school of Satan, and pursue a course of action that will make repentance and reformation impossible? Why resist the overtures of mercy? Why say, "Let me alone," until God shall be compelled to give you your desire, since you will have it so?

Those who resist the Spirit of God think that they will repent at some future day, when they get ready to take a decided step toward reformation; but repentance will then be beyond their power. According to the light and privileges given will be the darkness of those who refuse to walk in the light while they have the light.

No one need look upon the sin against the Holy Ghost as something mysterious and indefinable. The sin against the Holy Ghost is the sin of persistent refusal to respond to the invitation to repent. If you refuse to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour, you love darkness rather than light, you love the atmosphere that surrounded the first great apostate. You choose this atmosphere rather than the atmosphere that surrounds the Father and the Son, and God allows you to have your choice. But let no soul be discouraged by this presentation of the matter. Let no one who is striving to do the will of the Master be cast down.

Hope thou in God. The Lord Jesus has made it manifest that He regards you at an infinite estimation. He left His royal throne, He left His royal courts, He clothed His divinity with humanity, and died a shameful death upon the cross of Calvary, that you might be saved.--Review and Herald, June 29, 1897.

[Bravus]

I'm on the road, typing on my phone, at the moment. I've already said I'll elucidate when I get back to my computer.

[Guest]

I stand by the view that the original quote is evil, regardless of who it was written by. The fact that you felt the desire to post it and your follow-up comments show that you are infected with the same evil.

But yes, I fight evil wherever I find it.

So Bravus, the great fighter of evil, has squared off against God's prophet, Ellen G. White. I wonder how this will end.

[abelisle]

I might be getting this wrong but something is amiss here. You have a person who advocates/supports the taking of human life through torture who then quotes an EGW passage that advocates reformation and repentance.

How does one reconcile both of these positions? I think this is what Bravus is alluding to, not that the quote consists of anything evil but that having a permissive attitude about torture is inherently evil while espousing spiritual values that speak to love for our fellow man.

Alex

P.S. Bravus - if I got this wrong, please correct me.

[Stan]

now we have a discussion..

[John317]

Are we talking here about whether we agree with the viewpoints of Forum members?? Or is the discussion about the writing of Ellen White that was posted at the beginning of this thread?

No one said they support the taking of human life through torture-- at least that I'm aware of. If someone did say this, please post exactly what was said.

Brauvs said the quotes of Ellen White at the beginning of this thread are "evil."

I stand by the view that the original quote is evil, regardless of who it was written by.

Do you agree that those things which she wrote are evil?

[abelisle]

Are we talking here about whether we agree with the viewpoints of Forum members?? Or is the discussion about the writing of Ellen White that was posted at the beginning of this thread?

No one said they support the taking of human life through torture-- at least that I'm aware of. If someone did say this, please post exactly what was said.

Brauvs said the quotes of Ellen White at the beginning of this thread was "evil." Do you agree?

Let's leave EGW out of this. What she says is completely spiritually sound.

But torture is not. Even if it doesn't lead to the death of one being tortured, how can a Christian harbor both love for his fellow man (even terrorists) and still dwell on thoughts of reformation and repentance?

For me personally, this is an enigma.

Alex

[Guest]

I might be getting this wrong but something is amiss here. You have a person who advocates/supports the taking of human life through torture who then quotes an EGW passage that advocates reformation and repentance.

[John317]

...Let's leave EGW out of this. What she says is completely spiritually sound.

But that is not what this discussion is about.

Bravus said the quotes of Ellen White at the beginning of this thread are "evil."

Originally Posted By: Bravus

I stand by the view that the original quote is evil, regardless of who it was written by.

Why are you apparently trying to get this discussion off onto a different topic instead of talking about what Ellen White wrote?

Since you say you believe that Ellen White's writing is spiritually sound, why not direct your comments to the one who said her statements are evil?

[abelisle]

I will let Bravus speak for himself and I have pm'ed Richard about any erroneous statements on my part.

I have not meant to derail this discussion but it must be made with the consideration that we as Christians cannot take on political views that counter our spiritual values.

With that said, I am retreating from this discussion to pray for my forgiveness if I have impugned anyones spiritual character in what I've said.

Have a blessed Sabbath everyone.

Alex

[Guest]

Happy Sabbath to you too Alex. No harm done. Thanks.

[John317]

Even if it doesn't lead to the death of one being tortured, how can a Christian harbor both love for his fellow man (even terrorists) and still dwell on thoughts of reformation and repentance?

You apparently don't see the difference between indivdual believers and the government. I personally wouldn't water-board or "torture" anyone, nor would I personally have taken up weapons to kill terrorists, but I do support America and our military in its actions against Iraq and Afghanistan.

Similarly I wouldn't shoot a robber, or execute a murderer, but I do ususally support the action of the police and the courts, etc.

But the issue here for me is what Ellen White wrote, not what I believe about the terrorists and the government's actions.

[Bravus]

Let's keep the torture discussion elsewhere (but note that it wasn't so much about torture unto death, just about torture at all).

My initial comment juxtaposed torture with the EGW quote because that's what came to mind. I had been reading and participating in the torture discussion here: http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/420935/Re_20_years_ago_in_Iraq.html#Post420935

There is also the issue of Richard's motivations in coming to a forum that he has been actively rubbishing on other forums and choosing to post this particular EGW quote without comment. The fact that he was so ready to rush to judgement of the state of my soul may offer some clues... but let's leave that aside as well.

Will address the original quote in a new post.

[Bravus]

So Bravus, the great fighter of evil, has squared off against God's prophet, Ellen G. White. I wonder how this will end.

Clearly you've already made up your mind. I'm very happy to leave it to the Lord's perfect judgment to discern which of us is speaking righteously - and which self-righteously.

[Woody]

Oh. You mean this:?

Quote:

Richard: "CA is not a place that a Christian can grow spiritually....it reaks of liberalism....in every topic..."