Pedophiles and Sex Offenders in the Church

[phkrause]

I agree with you to a point. I agree that even if someone who's had this problem prays and appears to be "normal," they shouldn't be allowed to be alone with children because they always pose a risk to the child.

I also agree that pedophilia doesn't occur because of the permissiveness of society, although it does encourage it. It is a well-known fact that pornography encourages immorality, and that includes the desire to have sex with teenagers or other young children. That is what happens when people continually look at pictures of naked children in provocative poses. People go from enjoying the pictures to thinking about having sex with them and then follows the putting of that thought into reality.

When a society says that various forms of immoraltiy are OK, it is encouraging people to act out their immoral desires whether the society realizes it or not. There are serious and practical consequences to a society's saying that God's moral law no longer exists or applies. It is like making a huge gap in the wall surrounding a city that is supposed to keep out the enemy, so that we shouldn't be surprised when the enemy slips in through the gap and makes raids on the innocent.

I agree with you John, because it doesn't matter if what Sonny is saying is true or not, we still need to monitor them. As, I believe Bonnie had stated, even pedophiles will tell you to keep them away from young children. They could probably benefit from something like a 12 step program? But who knows.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

it is a mental and personality disorder

This is humanism at its best! This is not a disease (that can one day be cured) this is perverted, human nature.

[CoAspen]

Your strings of texts have 'what' to do with child protection or proof of your premise that one causes the other,causes the other, etc.

As others and cardw have pointed out.... well... you need to study a bit more on causes of behavior. True, will we can contribute harmful behaviour to sin, but we must understand the changes that have resulted, over the centuries, in the genetic makeup of the human race. We then treat those, not ignore and make sweeping generlizations about causes as if we can cure by makeing societal changes.

[John317]

And apparently Christianity has no power over this either, because pedophilia is highly prevalent within Christian communities.

So Christianity is useless for the pedophile.

Christ has infinite power to help anyone overcome sin, but they have to die to sin and surrender their will entirely to Christ. And even after that, people have the ability to chose to return to their sins at any time. The same principle applies to drug addicts, alcoholics, and homosexuals.

Originally Posted By: Sonny

The Bible says, "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery"....Paul said, "I know that in me, that is in my nature, lives nothing good."

Originally Posted By: cardw

If Paul had no good in him we shouldn't listen to anything he writes. Maybe he was a pedophile too.

No one has any good in them on their own. All the good that we are and that we do is owing to the influence of the Holy Spirit.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Apostle Paul was a pedophile. There is as much reason to say that you might be a pedophile, too.

[LifeHiscost]

#427030

As to the different points made, Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, and if there were too many amens as opposed to the actual number stated, consider the couple I had in mind to add to those already stated.

Good show, John317. I'll enjoy discussing this further with you in the Kingdom if not before. Although we'll have to make that during the initial thousand year reign with Jesus as I understand after that all memory of much of that will no longer be on our mind.

God blesses!

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

And apparently Christianity has no power over this either, because pedophilia is highly prevalent within Christian communities.

So Christianity is useless for the pedophile.

Christ has infinite power to help anyone overcome sin, but they have to die to sin and surrender their will entirely to Christ. And even after that, people have the ability to chose to return to their sins at any time. The same principle applies to drug addicts, alcoholics, and homosexuals.

[Gail]

I doubt that even if someone could claim freedom from this trait that the person would write a book or acknowledge being guilty of it.

It could be that like with homosexuality people do not believe that Christ can help them with it. But we know that homosexual people DO change, as there have been books written about it. But like the addicted person, a recovering pedophile might always have that weakness.

But who would admit that they are a pedophile? In some circles that would be inviting a death sentence.

[cardw]

I doubt that even if someone could claim freedom from this trait that the person would write a book or acknowledge being guilty of it.

[LifeHiscost]

The problem with Christianity's approach to sexuality is that Christianity teaches that even if you lust after another person you are committing adultery. Most teenage and young adult males think of sex most of the time. And that would occur with or without sexual material available to view.

For someone who has no knowledge of God as a personal Friend, or if believing He is there, but not believing He will use His power to deliver from the enslavement that would destroy all hope for the future, I can understand your position. However, while I don't know every man/youth to the extent I can tell whether most are controlled by their sexual nature, I can assure you there is at least one man who no longer is controlled by his sexual propensities. Tempted, to be sure. Maybe even to be defined as temporarily out of personal control. But through the prayers of others as well as personal appeals to the One capable of giving one control, as well as deliverance, the conclusions drawn as listed above fall short of describing the experience of many.

Get to know the Master and one will be able to shed the gorilla on one's back.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. "Ephesians 6:12 NKJV

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. "John 15:5 NKJV

God blesses!

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

Without God in the life humans can't love - Sonny

... or keep the commandments?

Agape is the ingredient that makes it possible to be in harmony with the law.

The Pharisee were full time law keepers, yet Christ said that unless one's righteousness didn't exceed that of the Pharisees he/she wouldn't enter heaven. Why?

When you keep the law without agape, which only comes from God, you are actually keeping sin. Agape is the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who are resting in Christ. It is the ingredient that makes the action right at the motivational level.

The Pharisees were serving the flesh (human nature). Jesus said that all their so called righteousness was done "to be seen of men". In other words they used the law as a vehicle to bring attention to themselves. Everything they did was for their advancement.

Agape, on the other, loves unconditionally and without cause. It expects nothing in return. Hence only agape allows one to love his neighbor.

I know,

[Sonny]

If Paul had no good in him we shouldn't listen to anything he writes. Maybe he was a pedophile too.

Maybe you are? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

You, like Paul, have a depraved nature. That nature can lead you to have the desires and lust a pedophile has - given his/her life experiences. Without God we will obey the dictates of our lust. Paul had God...while Paul wasn't perfect he grew in grace.

Many years ago it was considered immoral to have sex outside marriage. That is long gone....Now homosexuality is acceptable. Orgies, wife swapping are gaining acceptability. I will guarantee you that one day bestiality and a form of Pedophilia will be acceptable.

[Sonny]

...apparently Christianity has no power over this either, because pedophilia is highly prevalent within Christian communities.

I don't have that data, but let's say it is true....That doesn't mean they have accepted Christ. You can call yourself anything...including a Christian.

A Christian is one who sees that without Christ he is rotten & lost....Without Christ he is bent to himself and his lusts - whatever form that takes.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

...apparently Christianity has no power over this either, because pedophilia is highly prevalent within Christian communities.

I don't have that data, but let's say it is true....That doesn't mean they have accepted Christ. You can call yourself anything...including a Christian.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

If Paul had no good in him we shouldn't listen to anything he writes. Maybe he was a pedophile too.

Maybe you are? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

[Woody]

Quote:

My point is the track record of Christianity is terrible.

Yes. But did that record include the 144,000 ?

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

The problem with Christianity's approach to sexuality is that Christianity teaches that even if you lust after another person you are committing adultery. Most teenage and young adult males think of sex most of the time. And that would occur with or without sexual material available to view.

For someone who has no knowledge of God as a personal Friend, or if believing He is there, but not believing He will use His power to deliver from the enslavement that would destroy all hope for the future, I can understand your position.

[cardw]

Quote:

My point is the track record of Christianity is terrible.

Yes. But did that record include the 144,000 ?

Well since we don't know who these 144,000 are and check out their track record this is pretty pointless.

[Woody]

Quote:

Well since we don't know who these 144,000 are and check out their track record this is pretty pointless.

Okay. Good Answer. But some think they know who these people are. :)

[John317]

And apparently Christianity has no power over this either, because pedophilia is highly prevalent within Christian communities.

So Christianity is useless for the pedophile.

Originally Posted By: John3:17

Christ has infinite power to help anyone overcome sin, but they have to die to sin and surrender their will entirely to Christ. And even after that, people have the ability to chose to return to their sins at any time. The same principle applies to drug addicts, alcoholics, and homosexuals.

Originally Posted By: cardw

Pedophilia doesn't manifest like an addiction. It does not respond to 12 step groups, counseling, or any treatment that we know of. There are no recovered pedophiles.

There are recovered pedophiles if by this word we mean people who stopped molesting children.

I don't mean that these people stopped having a sinful attraction toward children. I mean, rather, that their relationship with Christ helped them stop the practice.

I personally knew a man who moltested children for many years and finally went to prison for it. He died last year of cancer. He was a member of my family by marriage. Did he cease to be a pedophile? Only in the sense that he stopped molsesting children. Was he capable of going back to molsteing at any time if he chose to? Yes, of course. And it is the same with me: I have the freedom to choose to return to a life of practicing homosexuality. Christ has not taken that temptation away from me, but he has changed my thinking and my desires so that I no longer experience homosexual desires in the way that I used to. But I know that I would return if I stopped having Christ in my life as a constant friend and Savior.

I used to hate my father-in-law becasue he moltested his own children, but I have forgiven him, and hope he will be in heaven. I know that he appeared to be repentant and sorry for his sins and I know that there is no sin so horrible that God is unwilling to forgive when we meet the conditions, which is true repentance, genuine confession and a turning away from sin-- all done with faith in Christ.

[John317]

SDAs don't but Jehovah's Witnesses believe it is possible to identify them. They are the ones who take part in the Memorial Supper. There are fewer and fewer of them alive. JWs believe the number was almost made up by the 1940s. They are believed to go directly to heaven after death as spirit creatures because they have a "heavenly hope," unlike the rest of us who only have an earthly hope.

I'm glad we have no such belief.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

And apparently Christianity has no power over this either, because pedophilia is highly prevalent within Christian communities.

So Christianity is useless for the pedophile.

There are recovered pedophiles if by this word we mean people who stopped molesting children.

I don't mean that these people stopped having a sinful attraction toward children. I mean, rather, that their relationship with Christ helped them stop the practice.

[John317]

There are broken partnerships and pain for the same reasons that heterosexual partners experience painful episodes in their relationships. So don't give me examples of gay partnerships that are harmful and generalize it for the whole group and imply that it's because they are gay.

I would never make such an argument because it wouldn't be true anyway.

However, gay relationships-- or marriages-- are quite different from heterosexual marriages. Just the fact that in those relationships you have two men instead of a man and a woman makes it very different. Men view sex differently than women do, and their sex drive is also different. Bisexuals and homosexuals know this.

But I'm not going to argue that gay partnerships are harmful in the human sense. But it is harmful spiritually and it is condemned by the Bible, if people are concerned about those issues.

The reason I stopped the practice was not because I was unhappy in it. Actually I was very happy in that sense. The reason I stopped was due to Bible study and my conviction that it was wrong for me to do it.

[LifeHiscost]

What is interesting is that Christians are far less likely to consider the rights of animals and still have problems with the rights of women. How enlightened is that?

My point is the track record of Christianity is terrible.

Not having substantial evidence outside of the Word, I make this statement based on the Truth of the Word.

Most, if not all of the most egregious criminal activity is carried out by individuals who became aware of the Word and its' claims, then chose to shed accountability to its' rightful place in their lives, thereby shedding also access to the Holy Spirit Who is the only repository of all Truth and Who only can give the power necessary for personal victory over the forces of darkness.

" So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done."Romans 1:24-28 NLT

The faithful follower of Christ knows that but for the grace of God, he/she would be in the same precarious position, choosing rather to give up their dependence on their own meager wisdom or strength and rather, yielding up their right to be independent for the joy of allowing the Master of the universe give them a sure future with submission to Him Who makes no mistakes. In the meantime he/she use their skills to help people see that when it comes to security and happiness, there is but one option.

When we choose any other, we choose death over life.

"Let me clearly state to all of you and to all the people of Israel that he was healed by the powerful name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the man you crucified but whom God raised from the dead. For Jesus is the one referred to in the Scriptures, where it says,

‘The stone that you builders rejected

has now become the cornerstone.’

There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.”

The members of the council were amazed when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, for they could see that they were ordinary men with no special training in the Scriptures. They also recognized them as men who had been with Jesus. But since they could see the man who had been healed standing right there among them, there was nothing the council could say."Acts 4:10-14 NLT

God blesses!

[John317]

I don't mean that these people stopped having a sinful attraction toward children. I mean, rather, that their relationship with Christ helped them stop the practice.

Originally Posted By: cardw

That's not recovery. Recovery is not having to stop yourself. It is a change of who you are. In AA drinking eventually becomes abhorrent. It is a total change of self. That's recovery.

The only way for anyone to really change who they are is by genuine conversion to Christ.

But as for one's previous way of life or one's actions being abhorrent to oneself, that does happen in the cases of both pedophiles and homosexuals who are converted to Jesus Christ. I find abhorrent what I used to find great pleasure in doing. But I realize that the only reason I find it abhorrent is because of the Holy Spirit in my life. If we ask Him to, He will give us eye salve so that we see our sins as God sees them. When that happens, it isn't hard to experience recovery from the terrible things that we have been in the habit of doing for years. He really does help us to become different people with new thoughts and motives.

[LifeHiscost]

He really does help us to become different people with new thoughts and motives.

"So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him." 2 Corinthians 5:16-18

NLT

"And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns."

Philippians 1:6 NLT

God blesses!