Sonny Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Dialoging with you is like talking to a "Speak & Spell" So? Prove me wrong....Prove to me that mankind is naturally good...that he is unselfish! Again, all our ills - be it greed, sexual immorality, etc come from our human nature. This is the way we are born. Quote
Guest Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 You also keep presenting a false contrast. I did not say that one doesn't have a choice about acting out their desires. I said one doesn't have a choice over what stimulates them and creates their desires. Quote
cardw Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: John317 There is no bilogical necessity for anyone to molest or rape another person. People can control their desires to have sexual relations with someone, and they can certainly keep from acting those desires out. That is what we're talking about here, not about whethe we can keep from getting hungry for food. Originally Posted By: cardw You're making a false choice. There is certainly a biological imperative to breed. It is as equally powerful as the need to eat. There is a biological and psychological need to be loved. These can be mixed up and directed in harmful ways just like eating the wrong things. That fact that God made us with sexual desires and needs is no reason or excuse for people to make wrong choices, such as molesting and raping. People are able to choose whether and when to have sexual contact with others. They are also able to choose who they have it with and how they do it. Even people who have very strong sex drives are able to control it if they choose to. John, point out where I said that having a desire is a reason or excuse to make a wrong choice. I don't know how to communicate this to you more clearly. I have repeated this over and over and over and STILL you don't hear it. Having a desire does NOT remove the responsibility to make a choice. Quit saying that I am making excuses for bad choices. This is a lie. If you continue to do this, then this conversation is over. I will hold you responsible for your choice even though you have a desire to make me wrong. I will repeat this again. One does not have a choice over what they desire. They DO have a choice over what they will do with that desire. I desire women and no amount of choosing is going to change that to men. I was born with that desire and I have no desire to change that. Now I would guess that there are pedophiles who wish their desire for children could be changed. As far as I know, no amount of choosing has been able to change that desire in even one pedophile. And to be clear I think it is possible, even with the desire, that a pedophile can choose to not molest a child and I think that a pedophile should be held responsible for their choices. At this juncture, since there is no evidence of recovery for any pedophile, that pedophiles should have absolutely no contact with children. Because there is no room for any relapse. There are no excuses here, so don't make any up please. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Amelia Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 *GP OK, looks like things are heading south on this thread. One more chance for everyone to be civil and if not I'm turning out the light and locking up. Amelia Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Sonny Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 a pedophile can choose to not molest a child .... Yes, in his mind, but because of his nature he will eventually lose the battle. Only Christ can defeat his nature..... Quote
cardw Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: cardw a pedophile can choose to not molest a child .... Yes, in his mind, but because of his nature he will eventually lose the battle. Only Christ can defeat his nature..... Apparently Christ hasn't chosen to do this for anyone. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Moderators John317 Posted March 6, 2011 Moderators Posted March 6, 2011 Apparently Christ hasn't chosen to do this for anyone. No amount of evidence or reasoning is sufficint to convince someone who doesn't want to believe it. The power is available for people who want to escape those evil habits and behavior patterns, but God doesn't force people to change against their wills when they love their sins. Christ does give the Holy Spirit who will help us hate our sins, but people have be willing to be made willing. People can't choose on their own to dislike what they love, but they can change by choosing every day (and sometimes every hour) to put their will in the will of Christ. Christ will do the changing, but we have to cooperate with Him. I know because this has happened in my life and is continuing to happen even now. It is no mere theory. You have no idea apparently of the thousands of people in prisons and jails who are struggling against their evil natures and realize that only God can give them the victory. But those people are there and they are real. If you don't believe it, I suggest you get involved with those who are in the prison ministry, and go visit the prisons with them and just listen and watch. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
cardw Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: cardw Apparently Christ hasn't chosen to do this for anyone. No amount of evidence or reasoning is sufficint to convince someone who doesn't want to believe it. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Sonny Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 So, from the evidence I see every day, Christianity is not the determining factor and many times gets in the way. You must differentiate between what you call "Christianity" and Christ. Christ, not not a group of people, is the One who can save our fallen humanity from besetting habits and addictions. Instead of focusing on "Christianity" you should focus on a relationship with Christ. Then you can begin to experience freedom from your habits and addictions. Quote
cardw Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: cardw So, from the evidence I see every day, Christianity is not the determining factor and many times gets in the way. You must differentiate between what you call "Christianity" and Christ. Christ, not not a group of people, is the One who can save our fallen humanity from besetting habits and addictions. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Sonny Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Why does this have to be about me? Because you need Christ too.... Quote
Sonny Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The last time I checked Christianity claimed to be the teachings of Christ. Yes, and Christians are imperfect - that's why they need Christ both for the imputed & imparted righteousness of Christ. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Hey Rich, I would NOT agree with you but unfortunatly, it is not true. Being a Christian means that you follow the gospel of Paul, not the words and teachings of Christ. This is why many are now saying that they are "followers of Christ and no longer can be called a Christian. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I meant to say that i would agree, but it is NOT true. Quote
cardw Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: cardw The last time I checked Christianity claimed to be the teachings of Christ. Yes, and Christians are imperfect - that's why they need Christ both for the imputed & imparted righteousness of Christ. And what does that have to do with your confusion between Christians and Christianity? Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
cardw Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Hey Rich, I would NOT agree with you but unfortunatly, it is not true. Being a Christian means that you follow the gospel of Paul, not the words and teachings of Christ. This is why many are now saying that they are "followers of Christ and no longer can be called a Christian. That's an interesting distinction. Thanks for sharing that. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
cardw Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: cardw Why does this have to be about me? Because you need Christ too.... I think when you make this personal that you take us off topic. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Moderators John317 Posted March 7, 2011 Moderators Posted March 7, 2011 Being a Christian means you follow Christ and believe in what is written in both the Gospels and in the writings of Paul. Most Christians today go by both sources and do not consider one as more authoritative or important than another. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted March 7, 2011 Moderators Posted March 7, 2011 It is simply stating a fact of biblical theology, which is that all humans need Jesus Christ. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Sonny Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I think when you make this personal that you take us off topic. Okay...all need Christ.... Quote
cardw Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: cardw I think when you make this personal that you take us off topic. Okay...all need Christ.... Since you are simply announcing things I'm won't be responding. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Sonny Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Card, you're funny. You announce things all the time....You have many opinions. Your faith in your mind...your reasoning abilities. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (quoting John317): We had boys sometimes who had raped their mother or sister or both. Some of them had done such bad things that it was best not to know what they had done because it could cause staff to treat them differently. But much of the problem many of them had was that they blamed everyone else for their trouble and bad choices. Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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