Hospital For Sinners

[Dr. Shane]

How welcome do back-slidden sinners feel when returning to church? How can the church make them feel more comfortable, encourage them and/or reach out to them?

In the 12-Step program I am involved with we have a saying which is, "We don't shoot our wounded." Simply put, it is a way of communicating that those that have relapsed into old behavior need not fear any criticism or rebuke when returning. Isn't that a wonderful saying? Imagine if sinners that have left the church were reassured that upon return they would not face criticism or rebuke but only find warm welcoming arms.

How can we strive more to reach that?

[Woody]

some churches have reached that ...

but they are then labeled as 'liberal'.

[CoAspen]

Yep, wouldn't it be great if we practiced what Christ taught all the time. We can never look at someone else and hold our self up...He died for all!

[Tom Wetmore]

I have often said that I would appreciate a church that followed the pattern of AA. Imagine people feeling comfortable enough to stand up and say "Hi my name is Bob and I am a ______" and have the whole congregation respond with affirmation and encouragement as they do at AA. Phillip Yancy's most recent book has a chapter along those lines talking about what he appreciates about AA.

[Woody]

Woody likes

[Dr. Shane]

Well, I have a suggestion. I think a church newsletter could help if it was also implemented with a couple of other things like small group study, a welcoming committee and maybe even something as daring as a "Binding The Wounds" program. A church newsletter can be a good "in-reach" tool. We all know what out-reach is. Well, in-reach is when the church looks for people hurting and in need of healing that are already in the church. There are software programs now that allow churches to put together beautiful newsletters at virtually no cost that can be emailed out to members. Hard copies can be left in the church lobby for those without email to pick up.

[doug yowell]

How welcome do back-slidden sinners feel when returning to church? How can the church make them feel more comfortable, encourage them and/or reach out to them?

In the 12-Step program I am involved with we have a saying which is, "We don't shoot our wounded." Simply put, it is a way of communicating that those that have relapsed into old behavior need not fear any criticism or rebuke when returning. Isn't that a wonderful saying? Imagine if sinners that have left the church were reassured that upon return they would not face criticism or rebuke but only find warm welcoming arms.

How can we strive more to reach that?

I've said it before,I'll say it again, the church should be more of a rehab ward with an attached ER. That way when someone relapses they can get immediate treatment.I don't know anyone who likes an extended stay in the hospital,even for hospice.ANd people with critical injuries and contagious diseases are usually isolated for everyone's safety.

[Gerr]

When I hear of the church being compared to a hospital for sinners, in most cases, the picture or feeling I get is more like a hospice where people go in and NOBODY gets well. They die with the same conditions they go in with.

[Woody]

When I hear of the church being compared to a hospital for sinners, in most cases, the picture or feeling I get is more like a hospice where people go in and NOBODY gets well. They die with the same conditions they go in with.

The hospital for sinners is one where people with idiopathic diseases come to learn of their disease. They leave armed with knowledge. Getting the cure may take time but at least they leave a better person.

[John317]

Having just come from six days in the hosptal, I can testify that, unlike what happesn in the church, the patients are typically anxious to know their diagnosis, take the antidotes, and get well as soon as possible.

[Gerr]

Having just come from six days in the hosptal, I can testify that, unlike what happesn in the church, the patients are typically anxious to know their diagnosis, take the antidotes, and get well as soon as possible.

So how are you doing? I hope nothing serious?

[doug yowell]

When I hear of the church being compared to a hospital for sinners, in most cases, the picture or feeling I get is more like a hospice where people go in and NOBODY gets well. They die with the same conditions they go in with.

Yes, it surely sounds like that's the way it's pictured.I wonder why?

[doug yowell]

Having just come from six days in the hosptal, I can testify that, unlike what happesn in the church, the patients are typically anxious to know their diagnosis, take the antidotes, and get well as soon as possible.

...and get the heck out of Dodge!

[doug yowell]

Having just come from six days in the hosptal, I can testify that, unlike what happesn in the church, the patients are typically anxious to know their diagnosis, take the antidotes, and get well as soon as possible.

Are you ok now? 6 days is sort of a long time isn'it it?

[Woody]

How welcome do back-slidden sinners feel when returning to church? How can the church make them feel more comfortable, encourage them and/or reach out to them?

In the 12-Step program I am involved with we have a saying which is, "We don't shoot our wounded." Simply put, it is a way of communicating that those that have relapsed into old behavior need not fear any criticism or rebuke when returning. Isn't that a wonderful saying? Imagine if sinners that have left the church were reassured that upon return they would not face criticism or rebuke but only find warm welcoming arms.

How can we strive more to reach that?

Unfortunately many in our church feel that rebuke is the cure.

[Woody]

"No one has ever been reclaimed from a wrong position by censure and reproach; but many have thus been driven from Christ and led to seal their hearts against conviction. A tender spirit, a gentle, winning deportment, may save the erring and hide a multitude of sins. The revelation of Christ in your own character will have a transforming power upon all with whom you come in contact. Let Christ be daily made manifest in you, and He will reveal through you the creative energy of His word--a gentle, persuasive, yet mighty influence to re-create other souls in the beauty of the Lord our God." "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs," Matthew 7:6." Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings p.`129

[Gail]

Yup, yup and yup!

John317, are you okay?

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Shane

How welcome do back-slidden sinners feel when returning to church? How can the church make them feel more comfortable, encourage them and/or reach out to them?

In the 12-Step program I am involved with we have a saying which is, "We don't shoot our wounded." Simply put, it is a way of communicating that those that have relapsed into old behavior need not fear any criticism or rebuke when returning. Isn't that a wonderful saying? Imagine if sinners that have left the church were reassured that upon return they would not face criticism or rebuke but only find warm welcoming arms.

How can we strive more to reach that?

Unfortunately many in our church feel that rebuke is the cure.

But,using the hospital genre,if the Dr. says nothing to the patient who continually ignores taking his prescriptions, going to PT,avoiding the types of behavior or eating habits that caused the problem in the first place,missing his Dr.'s appointments,ect...? Don't you think that some rebuke is needful?

[Woody]

Quote:

Don't you think that some rebuke is needful?

I would never go to a doctor who rebuked me.

I need information.

But I don't need rebuke.

I'm an adult and so can thus make my decisions without rebuke.

[doug yowell]

Quote:

Don't you think that some rebuke is needful?

I would never go to a doctor who rebuked me.

I need information.

But I don't need rebuke.

I'm an adult and so can thus make my decisions without rebuke.

You're mixing metaphors. That's why I don't like the hospital/church comparison,it doesn't fit. Even the Bible calls for rebuke (doesn't Jesus often rebuke His disciples)for those who are unruley. Criticism alone is counterproductive but constructive criticism should be welcome if comboed with a loving,honestly concerned attitude.

[Dr. Shane]

Rebuke isn't enough and shouldn't be the first thing a person does. Using the hospital metaphor, let's say that rebuke is the needle piecing the skin. It hurts, it burns but by itself it is worthless. The needle needs to inject medicine if it is to be of any value. So the rebuke from one brother to another must be filled with love. I am not just talking about soft and warm words. I am talking about, "here is my phone number, call me at 2:00AM if necessary." I am talking about, "Let's have lunch once a week together." Or "I want you to call me once a day and let me know how things are going."

[doug yowell]

I would never go to a doctor who rebuked me.

I need information.

But I don't need rebuke.

I'm an adult and so can thus make my decisions without rebuke.

And you can decide to ignore the information given by the Dr. And if you ignored the advice of many Dr.'s and they were worried about your health, what kind of response would you expect if you continued to ask them for advice?

[Woody]

Quote:

doesn't Jesus often rebuke His disciples

Yes. And that is the job of Jesus to do. And He does it through the use of the Holy Spirit. But it is not the job of mere humans.

[Woody]

Quote:

"But there was one of the Twelve to whom, until very near the close of His work, Christ spoke no word of direct reproof. ... Jesus, seeing that to antagonize was but to harden, refrained from direct conflict. The narrowing selfishness of Judas' life, Christ sought to heal through contact with His own self-sacrificing love. In His teaching He unfolded principles that struck at the root of the disciple's self-centered ambitions. Lesson after lesson was thus given, and many a time Judas realized that his character had been portrayed, and his sin pointed out; but he would not yield." Education p 91-92 EGW

[doug yowell]

Quote:

doesn't Jesus often rebuke His disciples

Yes. And that is the job of Jesus to do. And He does it through the use of the Holy Spirit. But it is not the job of mere humans.

"For we have this treasure in earthen vessels," "I withstood him to his face because he was to be blamed" "...Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come..." If the Spirit of Christ(the Holy Spirit) lives in the believer then we become the ambassadors of Jesus in this world.Mere humans with Divinity living within.If this is true than we are called to do the work of Christ (including rebuking)in the same manner and method of Jesus. This is the work of discipling.EGW spent a lifetime teaching and modeling this and is roundly condemned by her critics for doing so. Our job as Christians is not merely to get people to go to the hospital but to be responsible for their successfully completing the rehabilitation program.