Moderators John317 Posted March 3, 2011 Moderators Posted March 3, 2011 Yup, yup and yup! John317, are you okay? Yes, but I can't wait for my Dr.'s appointment in about two weeks so I can get a diagnosis and the proper medicine. The hosptial did all kinds of tests but they were mainly for the purpose of ruling out heart and vascular problems. Those are OK, but they never did determine why I have painful feet. They told me I would have to wait for my personal physician to make the diagnosis on the basis of all the information. I'm sure it is neuropathy, but he has to be the one to diagnose it. Sometimes it is better than other times. My feet are improving in terms of the pain and the swelling and discoloration, but it still feels like I'm being stung by wasps or that I'm walking on nails or something. Sometimes, too, it feels like my feet are on fire. I'm told that this is what neuropathy can make you feel like. I think the Lord is getting me ready to be tortured and he's seeing how much I can take. Just kidding. I have to joke a lot or.... lol Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
doug yowell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I think the Lord is getting me ready to be tortured and he's seeing how much I can take. Just kidding. You hope.After years at CA this should be a piece of cake. Quote
Dr. Shane Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 The context of this thread is sinners returning to church. Lets all get on the same page. Examples: Abusive parents that have had their children taken away Pregnant, unwed girl/woman Prisoner being released Drug addict trying to get straight Man who has lost his wife and family because he was committing adultery Congresswoman publicly humiliated for cussing and swearing at her staff members College professor who has lost his job for having an affair with a student Person who has lost home, business and everything to gambling Person who lost job because of viewing porn on office computer Woman who is dancing at exotic night club Businessman fired for taking kick-backs These are not sinners coming to church and saying everything is OK. These are broken people having a crisis in their lives, coming to church looking for answers. Would they come to your church if they knew you were waiting to rebuke them? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Overaged Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 How welcome do back-slidden sinners feel when returning to church? How can the church make them feel more comfortable, encourage them and/or reach out to them? Backslider is to me a very insulting degrading term and very innapropriate for "reaching out?" What on earth is a "backslider" anyways? Who decides who is a backslider, and officially gives them this ignorant title? If you came to my door and I had even half a suspicion that you thought of me as "one of those dirty little backsliders" I'd send you back the way you came on the end of my boot! And what do you mean "reaching out?" What is the goal and method of "reaching out" to a BACKSLIDER? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Overaged Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Well, sometimes "information" may rebuke a person... Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Dr. Shane Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Backslider is to me a very insulting degrading term and very inappropriate for "reaching out?" What on earth is a "backslider" anyways? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
doug yowell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 The context of this thread is sinners returning to church. Lets all get on the same page. Examples: Abusive parents that have had their children taken away Pregnant, unwed girl/woman Prisoner being released Drug addict trying to get straight Man who has lost his wife and family because he was committing adultery Congresswoman publicly humiliated for cussing and swearing at her staff members College professor who has lost his job for having an affair with a student Person who has lost home, business and everything to gambling Person who lost job because of viewing porn on office computer Woman who is dancing at exotic night club Businessman fired for taking kick-backs * would it include angry ex-church members who physically attack others whom they suspect of thinking that they may be backslidden? Quote
doug yowell Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 The context of this thread is sinners returning to church. Lets all get on the same page. These are not sinners coming to church and saying everything is OK. These are broken people having a crisis in their lives, coming to church looking for answers. Would they come to your church if they knew you were waiting to rebuke them? The word backslidden and the word returning describe where they've come from and why they're possibly returning so we'd be describing someone like the prodigal son,right? Not necessarily someone who's looking for answers but rather comfort and safety. The prodigal son returned home with no expectation of being anything other than possibly another servant.The story seems to indicate that he fully expected his father to treat him like a servant.He came with a repentent attitude which did not keep him from submitting himself to those possible humiliations.The problem seemed to lay in the older son's view of both himself,his brother, and his dad. If the returning person has already demonstrated a sorrow for their past choices why would there be a need for rebuke (other than to make some other unrepentant soul feel better about themself).I'm trying to stick with the church/hospital metaphor but I'm having a hard time correlating it with the way hospitals are set up not the other way around. Quote
teresaq Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 "For we have this treasure in earthen vessels," "I withstood him to his face because he was to be blamed" "...Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come..." If the Spirit of Christ(the Holy Spirit) lives in the believer then we become the ambassadors of Jesus in this world.Mere humans with Divinity living within.If this is true than we are called to do the work of Christ (including rebuking)in the same manner and method of Jesus. This is the work of discipling.EGW spent a lifetime teaching and modeling this and is roundly condemned by her critics for doing so. Our job as Christians is not merely to get people to go to the hospital but to be responsible for their successfully completing the rehabilitation program. The problem is that we read these things in our own carnal nature and think that it was done the same way we do it. As we study more we find there was a very different Spirit-tone-used... Those of us who think we rebuke with "love" are usually quite wrong. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Overaged Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: doug yowell "For we have this treasure in earthen vessels," Doug! Finally you admit and accept that I am a [real] Treasure! Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Dr. Shane Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Those of us who think we rebuke with "love" are usually quite wrong. I think the problem is that many don't understand what love is. First, let's talk about the backslidden member returning. We want him or her to feel comfortable coming "home". So let's say this backslidden member hasn't attended church for a couple of years and has a job bar tending. So do we rush over to him and tell him how wrong it is to be working at a bar? I don't think that would be the right course of action. I think it would be better to invite him to our home for Sabbath lunch. Get to know what is going on in his life and what is burdening his heart. Get his phone number and come Wednesday, give him a call and invite him to prayer meeting. Invite him to come 1/2 hour early so we can visit. After we have formed a friendship and gained some trust, ask if he has given thought to looking for another job. If so, perhaps help him look for that job. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Woody Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Quote: Those of us who think we rebuke with "love" are usually quite wrong. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew 7:3-5 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
doug yowell Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 The problem is that we read these things in our own carnal nature and think that it was done the same way we do it. As we study more we find there was a very different Spirit-tone-used... Those of us who think we rebuke with "love" are usually quite wrong. I think you're probably right but it doesn't have to be that way and we shouldn't let the possibility of God working thru us (or someone else) slip away for fear of imminent failure. "He who has been forgiven much is he who loves much." Every person has unique traits that can be triggered in order to help them see the love of God. Sometimes some may need a swift kick in the pants,other's may need kid gloves. The patient's condition and response to input (good,bad,or otherwise)often determines their success in recovery. Quote
doug yowell Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: doug yowell"For we have this treasure in earthen vessels," Doug! Finally you admit and accept that I am a [real] Treasure! Oh, sorry I didn't mention it before, I assumed it was an indisputable fact.However, in order to be true to the Biblical metaphor, you're only a great looking chest. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 5, 2011 Moderators Posted March 5, 2011 Quote: doesn't Jesus often rebuke His disciples Yes. And that is the job of Jesus to do. And He does it through the use of the Holy Spirit. But it is not the job of mere humans. So Paul should have kept his mouth shut when Peter publicly acted hypocritically? And Peter should have held his peace when Ananias & his wife came in with lies? Quote
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Quote: "We are not to deal out excommunications and denunciations to those who are faulty." Our Prophet in TM 47.1 Quote: "Let them remember that, while they are watching and criticizing others, they are neglecting to put on the robe of Christ's righteousness.'" Our Porphet in PAMPHLETS/PH151 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Quote: " The Lord loves us yet. Let us praise Him for this. Let us take hold of the work in a new way, with heart, and mind, and strength. Do not any longer pick flaws in your brethren. I see enough vultures watching for dead bodies. Let us have nothing of this nature in our work. Let there be no picking flaws. Attend to yourselves, and you will have all you can do. When you purify your souls by obeying the truth, you will have something to impart. {13MR 207.1} Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Quote: A Work of the Heart.--There are many who try to correct the life of others by attacking what they consider are wrong habits. They go to those whom they think are in error, and point out their defects. They say, "You don't dress as you should." They try to pick off the ornaments, or whatever seems offensive, but they do not seek to fasten the mind to the truth. Those who seek to correct others should present the attractions of Jesus. They should talk of His love and compassion, present His example and sacrifice, reveal His Spirit, and they need not touch the subject of dress at all. There is no need to make the dress question the main point of your religion. There is something richer to speak of. Talk of Christ, and when the heart is converted, everything that is out of harmony with the Word of God will drop off. It is only labor in vain to pick leaves off a living tree. The leaves will reappear. The ax must be laid at the root of the tree, and then the leaves will fall off, never to return. {Ev 272.1} Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Quote: When Christ came into the world, it was filled with criticism and condemnation of others, and Jesus revealed the sure result of such a course. The same results are manifest today. Those who have the greatest need to examine themselves whether they be in the faith, are most forward to pronounce sentence of evil against their brethren. Those who are accusers of the brethren are recipients of God's mercy and compassion, are every moment dependent upon his care and benevolence, and yet they are unmerciful to others, making it manifest that they have not allowed the truth to purify, refine, and sanctify them. Our characters are not to be weighed by smooth words and fair speeches manufactured for set times and occasions; but by the spirit and trend of the whole life. The unkind man, the critic, the one who is full of self-conceit, deceives his own soul, though claiming to be a clear discerner of the defects of others. He who has a disposition to find fault, to be suspicious, to surmise, think and speak evil, has so cultivated this attribute of the evil one that the good qualities of his brethren and sisters in the church do not arrest his attention. If he thinks he has discovered a flaw in the character, a mistake in the life, he is very officious to aim at the mote, when the very trait of character which he has overlooked in himself, which is developed in doing this unchristlike work, is, in comparison to what he criticises, when weighed in the golden balances of heaven as a beam in proportion to a mote. {RH, August 16, 1892 par. 3} Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Quote: "Is there any of the glory of Christ in suspicion and evil surmising, in criticism and condemnation of our brethren? We should pray for those who are in error. We should present before them the perfection of Christ, but we should not accuse and condemn our brethren and friends." {RH, July 2, 1889 par. 4} Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Overaged Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 "talk of Christ" certainly explains it all. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
MariaS Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Overaged, I like the attachment on your post. Quote The rules of life - Love and serve God - Remember choices, not circumstances, determine the flavor of our lives - Live each day so that you'll never be afraid of tomorrow nor ashamed of yesterday
Woody Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Overaged, I like the attachment on your post. I would like to like it but it's so small I can't see it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
MariaS Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Originally Posted By: MariaS Overaged, I like the attachment on your post. I would like to like it but it's so small I can't see it. He post it small for a reason I believe. Its still very nice and meaningful though it is small. Quote The rules of life - Love and serve God - Remember choices, not circumstances, determine the flavor of our lives - Live each day so that you'll never be afraid of tomorrow nor ashamed of yesterday
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