"I haven't always been an Adventist, I used to have fun"

[Dr. Rich]

Hey PK, what was it that caused you to think the "rest of us" don't take the Sabbath serious? If I implied that messege, then I am sorry about that. The Sabbath IS a serious issue but not to be taken as the Jews took it. I have seen too many people make it a day of pain and suffering.

Once on vacation in FL on the Keys, we went to Church and were invited to all go swimming after church. To many this activity would have been off limits. That is why I stressed looking AT the commandment itself--not to what others THINK. Keeping it HOLY means to SET IT APART from your days at work for a living--not to be bored to death and be by yourself as that does no one any good and you can't share your 'gospel' with those that need it.

Doing sports is usually not working for a living for most of us. A hobbie is something fun and can be shared with others. Just because you are around people who use bad language does not mean you have to do the same.

Mowing the lawn for another without money or painting a house for those who can't afford it or laid up is something that some of the kids in our church do on the Sabbath. Is that wrong? Duh?

[Dr. Rich]

Life... "So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Matt.12:12

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Yeah, I thought I was missing all that fun when I became an Adventist. So I joined the Navy to see the world. It didn't take me long to see how hollow and stupid all that "fun" was.

Hangovers, debt, wasted lives, you name it.

Why do you have to be an Adventist (or Christian, or religious, or even spiritual) to understand that repeatedly getting drunk, wasting money, and sleeping around are unfulfilling in long term? I don't do any of those things!

You don't have to be a Christian not to do all those things, true enough. But the highest fulfillment of one's existence for me is the realization that in this world that is just a speck of dust in the vast cosmos, I am not a freak accident of nature. There is a God who created me, who loves me, and gave His life for me. And someday soon, I will meet Him face to face, and be with Him for eternity.

[Igakusei]

You don't have to be a Christian not to do all those things, true enough. But the highest fulfillment of one's existence for me is the realization that in this world that is just a speck of dust in the vast cosmos, I am not a freak accident of nature. There is a God who created me, who loves me, and gave His life for me. And someday soon, I will meet Him face to face, and be with Him for eternity.

That's just wishful thinking, Gerry. I think the idea of living for a really long time with greatly expanded physical and mental capabilities is pretty rad, and I'd love to believe it if I could.

I also have never met an evolutionist who thinks of themselves as a "freak accident of nature." Natural selection is the exact opposite of random.

[Gerr]

That's just wishful thinking, Gerry. I think the idea of living for a really long time with greatly expanded physical and mental capabilities is pretty rad, and I'd love to believe it if I could.

Yeah, pretty radical idea - living forever, isn't it? But not as radical as you think. There are cancer cells that can be maintained in the lab ad infinitum.

Quote:

I also have never met an evolutionist who thinks of themselves as a "freak accident of nature." Natural selection is the exact opposite of random.

If the cosmos, and life, are not the product of a Master Designer/Planner, then we are the product of endless random freak accidents. The laptop I'm using now is no product of "natural selection".

[Igakusei]

Yeah, pretty radical idea - living forever, isn't it? But not as radical as you think. There are cancer cells that can be maintained in the lab ad infinitum.

[Stan]

my point to this whole thread is this:

If she had more joy in life before, she is not doing Christianity right.

[Woody]

my point to this whole thread is this:

If she had more joy in life before, she is not doing Christianity right.

Yes I suspect you are right. And I also suspect that most of us are not doing Christianity right. At least we all are on the right path.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Yeah, pretty radical idea - living forever, isn't it? But not as radical as you think. There are cancer cells that can be maintained in the lab ad infinitum.

Do I believe that human science might one day cure aging, cancer, Alzheimer's, etc? Sure, it's possible. I've done research on immortalized cancer cells, so I'm not incredulous at the scientific aspects of it. I'm incredulous at the beliefs surrounding the mechanism by which you believe immortality will be obtained. You know, the ones not supported and often contradicted by evidence.

I don't know what evidence you are talking about, but I have enough evidence to believe it. If my evidence turns out to be erroneous, I will have lost nothing, since I don't care to live what many call "fun" anyway. But if your "evidence" turns out to be wrong, you missed out on eternity. Is this a case of - "just in case" scenario? I am as absolutely certain about it as I can be.

[Igakusei]

I don't know what evidence you are talking about, but I have enough evidence to believe it. If my evidence turns out to be erroneous, I will have lost nothing, since I don't care to live what many call "fun" anyway. But if your "evidence" turns out to be wrong, you missed out on eternity. Is this a case of - "just in case" scenario? I am as absolutely certain about it as I can be.

Ah, Pascal's wager.

[phkrause]

Hey PK, what was it that caused you to think the "rest of us" don't take the Sabbath serious? If I implied that messege, then I am sorry about that. The Sabbath IS a serious issue but not to be taken as the Jews took it. I have seen too many people make it a day of pain and suffering.

Once on vacation in FL on the Keys, we went to Church and were invited to all go swimming after church. To many this activity would have been off limits. That is why I stressed looking AT the commandment itself--not to what others THINK. Keeping it HOLY means to SET IT APART from your days at work for a living--not to be bored to death and be by yourself as that does no one any good and you can't share your 'gospel' with those that need it.

Doing sports is usually not working for a living for most of us. A hobbie is something fun and can be shared with others. Just because you are around people who use bad language does not mean you have to do the same.

Mowing the lawn for another without money or painting a house for those who can't afford it or laid up is something that some of the kids in our church do on the Sabbath. Is that wrong? Duh?

Some interesting thoughts Dr. Rich. I do agree there are many that would think this was a wrong activity for the Sabbath. I do believe we should never judge another.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Interesting statement Stan. I think the situation is kinda like this: If having fun is equivalent to being appeased by worldly entertainment which has a bad influence on your christian life, then you are unconciously seeking excitement in your brains, you are chasing endorphins. But why are you chasing endorphins so much? because when you are alone and you have got nothing to do you feel empty inside. But why do you feel empty inside? because you have not found the spirit of God yet, the comforter who has been sent to us as Christ his representive. Since believing in SDA doctrines, despite the many times i had to wrestle with God, i have found an inner peace no worldy entertainment can give me. Think about it, say you live in Africa and you live from less than a dollar a day. Then one day a Western guy comes along and gives the poor man from Africa a million dollars. Would he be happy? Of course, he would get a better standard of living. I think everybody who doesn t walk with Christ in this life is poor, and we can make them rich. I geuss that s why Jesus warns Laodicea in revelations, that we think we are rich, but we are poor, for we are lukewarm. We have enriched ourselves and have been accostumed to that, but we fail to see that we are living in a world of poor people, and we only got this life to make as many people rich as possible.

Despite all this, there is still so many music, movies, etc adventists can enjoy which don t have an unholy influence. Also we can enjoy nature, own dogs, fishes, climb the oceans, exercise etc. etc., so it seems to me there are still many options open for doing fun stuff, unless you are a legalist ofcourse.

[onlyhumanme]

Many who are baptised think they are baptised into life but you are supposed to be baptised into death the death of the first self, this person who was missing the fun may have taken up their cross and be walking but sometimes people think they get points with god if they respond to someones struggle "blessed is the sabbath!... but god is no respecter of individual persons and It seems the person has left thy first love-(agape)and was burried alive at baptism.

The ones who 'rest in christ' on the sabbath day keep the true sabbath and are known by their new hearts.

There was a man named lazarus who was a jew(sabbath keeper) and his master who also was jewish(sabbath keeper)... one knew god the other called on his works.

For even a sinner on a cross can choose but many early vinedressers may turn.

have a great day friends ..

[Gerr]

I'm pretty sure I addressed this horrible argument/misunderstanding the last time we derailed a thread together.

If you can't believe that my laptop is the product of that mighty god called "natural selection", how am I to believe that this god created things that are infinitely more complicated?

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I'm pretty sure I addressed this horrible argument/misunderstanding the last time we derailed a thread together.

If you can't believe that my laptop is the product of that mighty god called "natural selection", how am I to believe that this god created things that are infinitely more complicated?

Maybe because laptops don't reproduce, for starters.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If you can't believe that my laptop is the product of that mighty god called "natural selection", how am I to believe that this god created things that are infinitely more complicated?

Maybe because laptops don't reproduce, for starters.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm curious. How did something that could not reproduce produce something that could?

[Igakusei]

I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm curious. How did something that could not reproduce produce something that could?

Of course we don't know how it DID happen, but lots of research has indicated how it MIGHT have happened. Regardless (and this is a really tired point), even if a [intelligent designer] did create the first replicating life, it has no impact on what has occurred since.

Here's a video summary of some of one person's research:

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm curious. How did something that could not reproduce produce something that could?

Of course we don't know how it DID happen, but lots of research has indicated how it MIGHT have happened.

So I take it then that "by faith" you believe that God did not create the universe. That "by faith" everything you see including life came about by some unexplainable accident?

That's why if there is a Creator, He would have had to reveal Himself, because unless He did so, we would have no way of knowing where we came from. And He did reveal Himself.

Quote:

Regardless (and this is a really tired point), even if a [intelligent designer] did create the first replicating life, it has no impact on what has occurred since.

I believe you are totally mistaken. The impact of the fullest revelation of Himself in the person of His Son is felt everywhere even today.

[Igakusei]

So I take it then that "by faith" you believe that God did not create the universe. That "by faith" everything you see including life came about by some unexplainable accident?

That's why if there is a Creator, He would have had to reveal Himself, because unless He did so, we would have no way of knowing where we came from. And He did reveal Himself.

[onlyhumanme]

lgakusei if your cup is full why are you here and how would you receive an answer if your mind is closed or do you want to take the faith of someone still growing in christ.

You say you have heard all the sda docterine but you claim that 'god' flooded the earth but we know that is not true by precept and ways,the bible also says that the entire universe was not created 6000years ago read genesis again carefully.but i wont give you the answers for its to the glory of god to hid a thing but it is the honor of kings to seek it out...

[John317]

I also reject your claim that God revealed himself, as a result of my study so far into the history of religion (specifically Judeo-Christian) and textual analysis of the Bible.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Are you dependent on what others tell you or are you a student yourself of the biblical languages and of the ancient manuscripts and texts?

How do these things show you that God did not reveal Himself?

[LifeHiscost]

it seems to me there are still many options open for doing fun stuff, unless you are a legalist ofcourse.

I legally enjoy putting God (Jehovah) first,

refraining from taking His name in vain,

avoiding anything that seems more important to me than the living God,

setting aside the Seventh Day Sabbath for the purposes God outlines,

honoring my mother and father on earth,

refusing to take the lives of other human beings,

saving myself for my wife alone,

allowing others to withhold from me what they consider their own,

refusing to give falsehoods about anything or anyone,

and finding contentment with what I have, whether lesser or greater than what anyone else has.

If that makes me a legalist, then so be it.

If being a liberalist means doing the opposite of those things,

I'll just claim the right to be different and refrain from that behavior with enjoyment and let them reap their own rewards that come from adopting whatever they choose.

God blesses!

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I also reject your claim that God revealed himself, as a result of my study so far into the history of religion (specifically Judeo-Christian) and textual analysis of the Bible.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Are you dependent on what others tell you or are you a student yourself of the biblical languages and of the ancient manuscripts and texts?

How do these things show you that God did not reveal Himself?

I bought several textbooks on new and old-testament scholarship that are used at seminaries. One is written by an agnostic, one is Catholic, and one is from Moody. I feel that this is a better approach than simply buying a Bible dictionary as you seem to have done (correct me if I'm wrong), since it doesn't provide a deep understanding of the original connotations and usage patters. Reading summaries of scholarship via textbooks from multiple sources with opposing biases feels much more practical and effective.

Without going into specifics, I generally have found the apologetic arguments to be spectacularly unconvincing as compared to the others.

[LifeHiscost]

my point to this whole thread is this:

If she had more joy in life before, she is not doing Christianity right.

The bitter end of following the devil doesn't always reveal itself in the here and now.

"Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season"Hebrews 11:25 KJV

Likewise the joy of following Jesus can sometimes be forestalled by the reality of a deep and hurtful cross until our deliverance from this evil world.

"Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution."

2 Timothy 3:12 NLT

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Of course we don't know how it DID happen

"In the beginning God created...."

Genesis 1:1 NLT

"The fool has said in his heart,“There is no God.” ...There is none who does good."Psalm 14:2 NKJV

God blesses!