Does the following EGW advice apply today?

[abelisle]

I came across the following and wonder if she would approve of Pres. Obama in light of her admonition:

“We are one brotherhood…We should treat the colored man just as respectfully as we would treat the white man. And we can now, by precept and example, win others to this course…But there is an objection to the marriage of the white race with the black. All should consider that they have no right to entail upon their offspring that which will place them at a disadvantage; they have no right to give them as a birthright a condition which would subject them to a life of humiliation. The children of these mixed marriages have a feeling of bitterness toward the parents who have given them this lifelong inheritance. For this reason, if there were no other, there should be no intermarriage between the white and the colored race” (2SM 343, 1896).

“In reply to inquiries regarding the advisability of intermarriage between Christian young people of the white and black races, I will say that in my earlier experience this question was brought before me, and the light given me of the Lord was that this step should not be taken…I have always had the same counsel to give. No encouragement to marriages of this character should be given among our people. Let the colored brother enter into marriage with a colored sister who is worthy, one who loves God, and keeps His commandments. Let the white sister who contemplates uniting in marriage with the colored brother refuse to take this step, for the Lord is not leading in this direction.” (Review and Herald, Jan. 21, 1896)

Alex (I have no feeling of bitterness)

[ClubV12]

Obama certainly had to come to grips with heritage, it was no easy task figuring out who he was, where he came from, what it all meant. Like so many others of mixed race. I even briefly struggled with it myself, based on my part Cherokee Indian background. Who was I? Moving around a lot while growing up only complicated the issue. Where is "home"? What do you say when people ask you, "Where you from?" Having grown up in several different states that was a tough question. I went to a half dozen different high schools. I blamed my parents for many years for having put me through that! Why couldn't they, we, just be "normal"?

I lived in Hawaii for 20+ years, one of the things I liked about it was the acceptance of mixed race. It's very common there, truly a "rainbow". But make no mistake, race is still a powerful issue in the Islands. While there is acceptance, generally speaking, there is also a LOT of rejection from every race to every race as well. "Kill Haole day" was a serious problem for my son going to school there. Haole, "new comer", slang for "white guy", depending on how it's said or used, a deragatory term. Pretty much universal for all other races toward the white race. The black man fares no better, steep prejudice, more so than any other race, with the possible exception of whites. Hawaii is not exactly the Aloha state the advertising would suggest when you LIVE there. Try visit, no problem!

Obama settled the question for himself, as did I. I am an American, I come from America. I am neither Yankee nor Confederate. I have lived in the deep South and the High North. I have found where ever you go, "your not from these parts, are you?" Your not "local" to the city, the county, the State you may find yourself in, and people notice that. Add in the race question and it can get downright hostile, even today.

The principle upon which EGW's counsel is given remains valid today. It's better than in her time, but it's still problematic, always will be. The counsel should be considered carefully, but let every man or woman be convinced in their own mind.

This doesn't sound like her personal opinion on the issue, based on her words:

"...the light given me of the Lord was that this step should not be taken."

[CoAspen]

Although she was writing in a time and culture where her words would have been true, we all know that much has happened since then. Melding of the races is becoming more common and less of an issue both for the couple and their children. So I do not see any connection between her statement then and interracial marriages today.

I hope SDA's do not believe that she was writing for any generation other than her own. By the way, she would have to use different language today...'colored people', has connotations today that are not acceptable in describing people of African or other descent.

[ClubV12]

"...less of an issue both for the couple and their children."

When did this happen? Within the last 10 years? 20 years?

It was about 20 years ago when Obama was forced to come to grips with it, the "who am I", "what race am I", question. What if his choice had been, "I'm white, just like my Momma."

Personally, I would not be to quick to dismiss the problems a mixed race marriage will encounter. Especially as it applies to the children. It would be a disservice to suggest everything will be fine, no worries!

Though it might be "easier" than a century ago, it's no walk in the park today, or will be in the future.

"I hope SDA's do not believe that she was writing for any generation other than her own."

This was not her opinion on the matter. She wrote what God instructed her to write on the matter,,, just sayin', thats a fact.

[Bravus]

Yep, God hates miscegenation too. He's an unregenerate old racist.

(logical consequence of ClubV12's last sentence)

[aldona]

What about nations where it is not a simple matter of "black" vs. "white"?

Where do we draw the line about mingling of "races"?

I am Polish-Australian and my husband is 3rd generation Australian of British heritage.

My brother (also Polish-Australian) is married to a Filipina lady.

There are couples in our church which are:

(Anglo) Aussie + Mauritian

(Anglo) Aussie + French

Chilean + Mauritian

Samoan + Mauritian (yes, I know, we have a lot of folks from Mauritius)

Italian + Taiwanese

Serbian + Croatian (can anybody say "don't mention the war"?)

Zambian + Zimbabwean

and we are not even close to being as multicultural as the two nearest SDA churches to us (Dandenong and Casey).

At the most recent wedding a few months ago (the Italian gentleman and the Taiwanese lady), the Chinese pastor said (in English and Mandarin, for the benefit of the bride's parents) that international marriages are well known for producing beautiful and intelligent babies. And he should know, as he is married to an (Anglo) Aussie lady!

I haven't seen any of the kids moping around wondering who they are, where they fit in, etc. They are a beautiful rainbow-colored bunch who all hang around together and do things together. I haven't even heard race/ ethnicity mentioned as an issue, and I certainly haven't seen any cliques or tribal groups.

Maybe if we were an all-Anglo church and there was just one mixed-race couple, and everybody was whispering and pointing their fingers, then the couple would be uncomfortable and the kids would grow up with issues. But then, that would not be the fault of the mixed-race couple.

Regardless of where you are, if attitudes to international marriages in your area are still similar to what they were at the end of the US Civil War, when Mrs White was writing, then there is a problem.

Just the fact of what Australian society is like in the year 2011 makes it clear that Mrs White was writing for her time and her place. Trying to apply advice against international marriages in a church like ours would be an absurdity, not to mention completely impractical.

AJ

[Igakusei]

"...less of an issue both for the couple and their children."

When did this happen? Within the last 10 years? 20 years?

It was about 20 years ago when Obama was forced to come to grips with it, the "who am I", "what race am I", question. What if his choice had been, "I'm white, just like my Momma."

Personally, I would not be to quick to dismiss the problems a mixed race marriage will encounter. Especially as it applies to the children. It would be a disservice to suggest everything will be fine, no worries!

Though it might be "easier" than a century ago, it's no walk in the park today, or will be in the future.

"I hope SDA's do not believe that she was writing for any generation other than her own."

This was not her opinion on the matter. She wrote what God instructed her to write on the matter,,, just sayin', thats a fact.

This is what happens when you let other people think for you.

[onlyhumanme]

id say Ellen white would have been talking about her time its obviously not a principle God would have wanted to be associated with for he made one blood of all nations is a saying that pops into my head when i read it, although ellen white to me looks part aboriginal lol so maybe she was speaking from experience although i know she is probably full white .

In my personal opinion i believe whiteness is a recessive gene and perhaps comes from albino mutation aswell as blackness being a mutation of gene and perhaps nimrod was the first to display this gene degeneraion.

But like cancer its just degeneration from the wearing out of our bodies throught the effects of sin etc..

The original human colour may have been a tanned color if we take the extremes away unless a biblical account is provided.

lol thats my one cent, oh and im mixed with many races from mixed parents of mixed parents etc I had a tolerance for accepting others that other children didnt but on occation when they were bagging some other race i nervously thought they might suddenly realise im of that other race too :D

[Gerr]

Club:

This was not her opinion on the matter. She wrote what God instructed her to write on the matter,,, just sayin', thats a fact.

Iga:

This is what happens when you let other people think for you.

Or fail to recognize change.

[Gerr]

Color had nothing to do with gene degeneration or mutation. Here's what happened. When God made man from clay, He put him in an oven to bake. The first one He took out too soon and was underbaked. This is how the whites came to be. So God tried it again. The second batch He left too long in the oven and got burnt. Thus the black people. So He tried it one more time. This time He timed it just right, and it came out perfect. This is the origin of the brown people.

[Igakusei]

Color had nothing to do with gene degeneration or mutation. Here's what happened. When God made man from clay, He put him in an oven to bake. The first one He took out too soon and was underbaked. This is how the whites came to be. So God tried it again. The second batch He left too long in the oven and got burnt. Thus the black people. So He tried it one more time. This time He timed it just right, and it came out perfect. This is the origin of the brown people.

Haha, nice.

I personally feel that mixing races is one of the best long-term solutions to defeating racism and discrimination. If you're that concerned about how your children will be treated, just move somewhere like California where mixed races abound and most people don't think twice about it.

[Igakusei]

I came across the following and wonder if she would approve of Pres. Obama in light of her admonition:

Considering who her admonition was to (potential parents), she might disapprove of his parents... but it certainly doesn't seem like his life has been ruined by being of mixed descent.

[onlyhumanme]

haha nice gerry ... i dont write what might be obvious to sdas to try and know something i write what i currently think so that if someone has new or improved light they might be kind enough to share it with the rest of us as id do the same.

Its kinda cool that after so many years we have a black president but i guess most forgot nimrod ran an empire years ago and united all races.

[SivartM]

Its kinda cool that after so many years we have a black president but i guess most forgot nimrod ran an empire years ago and united all races.

And Hitler ran an empire and segregated them.

I will never really understand people who get so worked up about skin color and have crises because they don't know "what/who they are". You're human, just like all other humans are, and your skin color is an incidental.

[Igakusei]

haha nice gerry ... i dont write what might be obvious to sdas to try and know something i write what i currently think so that if someone has new or improved light they might be kind enough to share it with the rest of us as id do the same.

Its kinda cool that after so many years we have a black president but i guess most forgot nimrod ran an empire years ago and united all races.

Wasn't Nimrod supposed to be Noah's great grandson? Just how many races were there?

[ClubV12]

Bear in mind the counsel was not about "mixed race's", which is very common in many parts of the world and Hawaii in particular.

The counsel SPECIFICALLY concerned itself with BLACK and WHITE. Not Fillipina and Korean or Hawaiian and Japanese or whatever. All though, the issue should be considered no matter what racial mix is involved. Demographic data clearly shows Asian's, Mexican and many other races do not experience the same race tensions and prejudice nearly as much as African Americans do.

There is not a single white/black union that has not, at some point in the relationship, had to deal with the ramifications of a mixed race issue. To ignore it, as if it didn't exist, would be foolish. Particularly question's like where do you live, where will your kid's go to school.

God doesn't "hate" anybody, everything He does is given and done in the spirit of love. It is for your own protection and peace and potential happiness. In this life and beyond.

"...your skin color is an incidental."

What perfect planet do you hail from? Ha Ha A nice politically correct thought, not reality, but a worthy goal.

[Igakusei]

Bear in mind the counsel was not about "mixed race's", which is very common in many parts of the world and Hawaii in particular.

The counsel SPECIFICALLY concerned itself with BLACK and WHITE. Not Fillipina and Korean or Hawaiian and Japanese or whatever. All though, the issue should be considered no matter what racial mix is involved. Demographic data clearly shows Asian's, Mexican and many other races do not experience the same race tensions and prejudice nearly as much as African Americans do.

There is not a single white/black union that has not, at some point in the relationship, had to deal with the ramifications of a mixed race issue. To ignore it, as if it didn't exist, would be foolish. Particularly question's like where do you live, where will your kid's go to school.

God doesn't "hate" anybody, everything He does is given and done in the spirit of love. It is for your own protection and peace and potential happiness. In this life and beyond.

"...your skin color is an incidental."

What perfect planet do you hail from? Ha Ha A nice politically correct thought, not reality, but a worthy goal.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that EGW's quotation is still valid, and scrounging for reasons to believe it.

[ClubV12]

You seem to reject outright even the possibility that it is no longer valid!!!

I am not so quick to dimiss the Lord's counsel without serious consideration to it. Do you pick and choose which counsel you think applies to you and if it cuts to close, then it doesn't apply to anyone?

20 years in Hawaii, as a minority, a white guy, a haole.

8 years in Washington D.C., as a minority, a white guy, a *%7^% (won't say the term). I am qualified to speak on the issues of race and prejudice, having seen it up close and personal. The Lords counsel is valid for today and should be seriously considered before entering into a marriage. Or, choose your own way, maybe you'll get lucky, maybe...

[LifeHiscost]

Club:

This was not her opinion on the matter. She wrote what God instructed her to write on the matter,,, just sayin', thats a fact.

Iga:

This is what happens when you let other people think for you.

Or fail to recognize change.

It definitely wasn't just her opinion. It is what, more often than not, is described as present truth. Good common sense for the people who wished (wish) to avoid avoidable difficulties. Less of a problem for those who aren't limited by the sense of peer pressure, without rancor.

That's a little more than just two cents worth because the advice came from God to help his people live in satan's domain without adopting satan's behaviors.

"I’m not asking you to take them out of the world, but to keep them safe from the evil one."

John 17:15 NLT

God blesses!

[CoAspen]

Absolutely, I reject the idea she was writing for all eternity! That is not what she said anyway. "I was shown" does not say if she had a vision from God, a direct voice from God, or simply an impression from observation or reading of other material. When the comments are brought up about bicycles, people are quick to point out that is was a principle not against riding or owning. Why are people having difficulty finding a principle in this statement. It was about the harm that might come to children. It should be rather easy to read the whole context of her comments and see it was not about which races should marry, but rather consequences of those unions.

The latest censes has stats that pertain to this issue and many articles have been written recently in the media about interracial marrige becomming more acceptable even in the south.

God is not racist, to suggest that this issue pertains only to black and white...well..sorry...but that is a racist concept.

[Gerr]

Uhhhh, should we go back to levirate marriage also? Wasn't that had divine sanction at one time?

[LifeHiscost]

I think that was more apt to have been when he thought to accept the presidency.

God blesses!

[abelisle]

I'm glad you're speaking for yourself Club but you're not as much a minority as you say.

My father was black, my mother white and I was raised here in NYC so I can speak , I think more forcefully than you, that at no time did I feel bitterness or regret who I was. In fact, it helped me as a teacher since I knew first hand all the issues my students faced. Besides, they thought it was cool that I was mixed.

I think her advice has to be taken within its historical context in a very racist post Civil War America.

Alex (a true mulatto

[Dr. Rich]

Daniel 2:43 "And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the SEED of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery."

This is a good verse to see what is happening today and to understand that God made ALL of the races in the 6 day creation many thousands of years before Adam was formed out of the ground.

[LifeHiscost]

God doesn't "hate" anybody, everything He does is given and done in the spirit of love. It is for your own protection and peace and potential happiness. In this life and beyond.

When the topic of ancestry came up in our family, my father said we were "hienz 57 varieties". We never had any race problems until being introduced to California's mixed races and someone offered to deck me when I responded to a very normal request for something, with "Yowzah boy", my very first introduction to political correctness at the age of about twelve, by a person I had thought to be a friend until his weakness became apparent. Or should I say my lack of using the king's English properly.

God blesses!