Why Adventists don't agree with the Nicene Creed.

[Gordon1]

John317 have you studied spirit from the Bible?

God has used this word over 760 times, mainly ruwach 7307 in the OT, and pneuma 4151 in the NT. He has revealed plenty about spirit.

The Israelites, the prophets, the apostles were not in any confusion about spirit and recorded the word hundreds of times with understanding. In the KJV.

[John317]

Yes, of course I have studied it. I have been studying it since about 1973.

Do you agree with the official belief of the SDA church:

Quote:

5. Holy Spirit:

God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ's life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)

Which part is not biblical or not supported by Ellen White's writings?

[John317]

A few twisted quotations from Ellen White cannot refute the weight of evidence found in her work, nor supplant the Bible record.

Show which quotations are "twisted". Who twisted them?

The Bible is clear about the Holy Spirit, that the Spirit is a person and not a mere influence or power or thing.

But here on this discussion we are looking in particular at what Ellen White taught about the Holy Spirit, because there are those who have alleged that Ellen White did not teach that the Holy Spirit is God and a person. As I have proved by many of her clear quotes, Ellen White taught both that the Holy Spirit is the fullness of the Godhead (as the Father and Jesus Christ are) and that He is a divine person.

As Ellen White herself said, "The Holy Spirit is the THIRD PERSON of the Godhead."

Answer these questions:

1) How can the Holy Spirit not be God if He is "the third person of the Godhead" and "the fullness of the Godhead"?

2) How can the Holy Spirit be "the third PERSON fo the Godhead" if He is not a PERSON?

3) Since the "Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead," who are the first and the second persons of the Godhead?

[Gustave]

This is simply not true. She says many times that the Holy Spirit is both God and the fullness of the Godhead. She also says that the Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Godhead, and therefore it is silly to claim Ellen White is saying the Holy Spirit could not enter the councils of God. She says, "There are three persons in the heavenly trio," and then she names them as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Ellen White UL 48.4

In the smallest as well as the largest matters, the first great question is, What is God's will in the matter; for His will is my will. "To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams" (1 Sam. 15:22). Who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? One man may be required by God to do a work and stand in a position that is peculiarly trying and taxing. The Lord has a work for him to do and [color:#330000]he risks his life, his future eternal life, in standing in that place. This was the position Christ occupied when He came to our world, entering into conflict with the rebel leader of the fallen angels

Originally Posted By: Ellen White 13MR 18.1

Be careful, exceedingly careful as to how you dwell upon the human nature of Christ. Do not set Him before the people as a man with the propensities of sin. He is the second Adam. The first Adam was created a pure, sinless being, without a taint of sin upon him; he was in the image of God. He could fall, and he did fall through transgressing. Because of sin, his posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. [color:#FF0000]He could have sinned; He could have fallen, but not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity.

I've found the concept in the Review and Herald & the Sabbath School quarterly....

...As I said this isn't a shock given that all Adventist denominations affirm the same teaching.

If I had known you wanted to see all of Ellen White's quotes on this topic, you should have asked me for them, and I could have given them to you. There are very many. I believe she is right in this teaching, and I believe it does not contradict the Bible.

Please show references for all Adventist denominations proving that they all believe the same thing as SDAs on this subject. I hope they do.

[Gustave]

It is obvious that those verses can't be used to show that Christ does not change in any way, since we all agree that Christ changed from being fully God to being the God-man, and fully human.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

It is obvious that those verses can't be used to show that Christ does not change in any way, since we all agree that Christ changed from being fully God to being the God-man, and fully human.

Actually, God ( in the Person of Christ ) was manifest in the flesh......

....Jesus the Christ was FULLY God & FULLY Human.

....Two natures UNITED, not blended or mixed.

Here's the point: God did change in that He became man, and He had never been man before, correct? John 1: 4 says that the Word, who was God, "became flesh." He thus became something He had never been before-- the God-man. And so He still is to this day.

Or are you claiming that God had always been man? If not, then clearly God underwent a change, called the incarnation.

It did not change God's character, and in this way it is true that God does not change. Yet the man Jesus Christ underwent a radical change, because He developed a human personality, which God did not have prior to Bethlehem.

[Gustave]

But Gustave, you have already demonstrated in many of your posts that you aren't knowledgeable in SDA history.

[John317]

If Christ had sinned THAT would be a most massive change in "God's" Character....

...The text says "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest [color:#FF0000]in the flesh".

Christ was both God and man, as He still is today and will always remain throughout eternity.

As I said before, God cannot be tempted by evil, but the man could be. In the same way, God could not sin, but the man Jesus could have sinned.

I agree with 1 Tim. 3: 16 as given in the Textus Receptus and the Majority Text. Jesus Christ was and is the God-man. He is fully God and fully man. Not two persons but one person. That one person had real moral choices-- which means He could have chosen other than in the way He did choose. He was a free moral agent.

[Gustave]

Here's the point: God did change in that He became man, and He had never been man before, correct? John 1: 4 says that the Word, who was God, "became flesh." He thus became something He had never been before-- the God-man. And so He still is to this day.

[John317]

Again, a study of the context of the statement about Christ as the only being in the universe who could enter the councils of God, shows that she is denying that Lucifer or the other angels could enter the councils. She is not denying that the third person of the Godhead could enter those councils. To even suggest such a thing is ridiculous and absurd.

Originally Posted By: Gustave

Did Ellen White or the Pioneers ever say that the Holy Spirit had a "personality" = had a rectum, hair and eyes?

...If you know of such a statement from Ellen or the Pioneers I would certainly like to know about it.

Having a personality has nothing to do with have a rectum or any such thing. Therefore your question is complete foolishness. It does not even deserve an answer.

Here is the definition of "personality" from the Webster's dictionary of Ellen White's time:

Quote:

PERSONALITY, n. That which constitutes an individual a distinct person, or that which constitutes individuality.

The personality of an intelligent being extends itself beyond present existence to what is past, only by consciousness--

1. Direct application or applicability to a person; as the personality of a remark.

Ellen White certainly did say that the Holy Spirit has a personality, and moreover, a "distinct personality." Were you unaware of this fact?

[Gustave]

Christ was both God and man, as He still is today and will always remain throughout eternity.

[John317]

..I know & that's exactly the reason and justification Ellen White and the Pioneers used...

...To make outlandish claims like the Father, Michael and Lucifer the archangel's all had rectums.

...In heaven long prior to the Adam and Eve being created.

You are making outlandish claims to claim that Ellen White and the SDA pioneers said this about the Father and Michael the Archangel. Where are you getting this very foolish and inaccurate idea?

My own grandfather and grandmother on both sides of my family were among the pioneers. I know for a fact that they believed no such nonsense. That is what I mean by saying you are making baseless charges and accusations.

[John317]

Nor do you correctly state Ellen White's positions. Therefore people have lost confidence in your conclusions as well as in your ability to state objectively what Ellen White taught or what the SDA church believes.

Originally Posted By: Gustave

Where did I not state Ellen's position correctly?

Where do you want to start? For one, you said that Ellen White taught that Christ "mutated." Not so. Where did she say this?

Also, where does she say that Christ was not God?

Thirdly, where does she say that the Holy Spirit is not God?

Originally Posted By: Gustave

...You need to produce something from Ellen other than the type of statements Pioneers who rejected the Trinity made.

None of the pioneers who rejected the Trinity made statements like the following.

Please show statements by the Pioneers like those found in Patiarchs and Prophets, Desire of Ages, and in Evangelism, page 614-617.

Quote:

We Shall Have to Meet Erroneous Teaching.-- Again and again we shall be called to meet the influence of men who are studying sciences of satanic origin, through which Satan is working to make a nonentity of God and of Christ. The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared, "I and My

614

Father are one." Yet it was the Son of God who came to the world in human form. Laying aside His royal robe and kingly crown, He clothed His divinity with humanity, that humanity through His infinite sacrifice might become partakers of the divine nature, and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.--Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 68. (1909) {Ev 613.3}

Positive Truth Versus Spiritualistic Representations. --I am instructed to say, The sentiments of those who are searching for advanced scientific ideas are not to be trusted. Such representations as the following are made: "The Father is as the light invisible: the Son is as the light embodied; the Spirit is the light shed abroad." "The Father is like the dew, invisible vapor; the Son is like the dew gathered in beauteous form; the Spirit is like the dew fallen to the seat of life." Another representation: "The Father is like the invisible vapor; the Son is like the leaden cloud; the Spirit is rain fallen and working in refreshing power." {Ev 614.1}

All these spiritualistic representations are simply nothingness. They are imperfect, untrue. They weaken and diminish the Majesty which no earthly likeness can be compared to. God cannot be compared with the things His hands have made. These are mere earthly things, suffering under the curse of God because of the sins of man. The Father cannot be described by the things of earth. The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. {Ev 614.2}

The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be "the express image of His person." "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have

615

everlasting life." Here is shown the personality of the Father. {Ev 614.3}

The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905) {Ev 615.1}

The Pre-existent, Self-existent Son of God.--Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God.... In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him.--Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900. {Ev 615.2}

He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son.--Manuscript 101, 1897. {Ev 615.3}

From Everlasting.--While God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding His pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted Him, were to be blessed. "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Before men or angels were created, the Word was with

616

God, and was God.--Review and Herald, April 5, 1906. {Ev 615.4}

Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.--Signs of the Times, May 3, 1899. {Ev 616.1}

Life, Original, Unborrowed, Underived.--Jesus declared, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life.--The Desire of Ages, p. 530 (1898) {Ev 616.2}

With the Father at Sinai.--When they [israel] came to Sinai, He took occasion to refresh their minds in regard to His requirements. Christ and the Father, standing side by side upon the mount, with solemn majesty proclaimed the Ten Commandments.--Historical Sketches, p. 231. (1866) {Ev 616.3}

The Eternal Dignitaries of the Trinity.--The eternal heavenly dignitaries--God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit--arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, . . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.--Manuscript 145, 1901. {Ev 616.4}

Personality of the Holy Spirit.--We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}

The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . .

617

{Ev 616.6}

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906. {Ev 617.1}

The Power of God in the Third Person.--The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897) {Ev 617.2}

In Co-operation With the Three Highest Powers.-- We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, --and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 51. (1905) {Ev 617.3}

[Gustave]

Having a personality has nothing to do with have a rectum or any such thing. Therefore your question is complete foolishness. It does not even deserve an answer.

Here is the definition of "personality" from the Webster's dictionary of Ellen White's time:

[John317]

...I've also went through the Greek word meanings.

Where did you do this? I have not yet seen it. Was this in a post on page 1 or 2? If so, could you please give me the post number?

[Gustave]

Where do you want to start? For one, you said that Ellen White taught that Christ "mutated." Not so. Where did she say this?

[John317]

....To the Pioneers God having a rectum had EVERYTHING to do with "Personality"...

...This was the word 'obsessed over' by the Pioneers and YES they did teach pre-Incarnate Christ had a rectum.

...As well as Father God and ALL His creations.

Originally Posted By: Adventist Review and Herald,Oct 8 1903

OF late the question has repeatedly come to me, Does it make any real difference whether we believe in the personality

of God, as long as we believe in God? My answer invariably is, It depends altogether upon the standpoint from which we view it. If from the Spiritualist's, -the Christian Scientist's,

the Universalist's, or if from the standpoint of any other " ist" or " ism," it makes but little or no difference. But

from the standpoint of Seventh-day Adventists it makes all the difference in the world.

That same article goes on to say'

Originally Posted By: IBID

Second^ At the creation God said to Christ, " Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen. 1: 26, 27. Man bore the image of God both morally and physically; for -after man sinned, we 'read'that Adam "begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." Gen. 5:3. Here is an explanation of the words " image " and "- likeness." As Seth bore both the physical and the moral nature of Adam, so Adam bore the physical and the moral likeness of God.Neither was this image of God which man bore a mere concept; for the Bible declares that the Lord has parts, the same as the human body.

That God had a rectum ( regular body just like humans ) was very important to the Sanctuary teaching...

...As is confirmed within the same article.

...By the way ALL of the "Personality of God" articles I've read by Adventists are among the largest of the articles.

You are mistaken about the idea that God's personality means that God has a rectum. That is absurd. We don't even know if Jesus Christ has a rectum. He has a glorified human body as the saved will have in the resurrection, but we have no idea whether that body will have all the same parts that human bodies have currrently. We will have to wait and see.

I believe firmly in the sanctuary teaching, i.e., the Investigative Judgment, but neither I nor any other SDA that I know of believes that God has a rectum. Your mention of it here is the first time I have ever seen anyone mention such a foolish thing. In fact, I categorically deny that God the Father or the Holy Spirit have a rectum. You really need to get this idea out of your head, for it is not only contrary not to the beliefs of the SDA church, but it is blasphemous to sugggest it.

If I did not think you were serious and if I thought you are not speaking out of ignorance, I would delete or edit out your allusions to this suggestion. It is the height of disrespect to God.

[John317]

Where do you want to start? For one, you said that Ellen White taught that Christ "mutated." Not so. Where did she say this?

Originally Posted By: Gustave

I said that Ellen White ( along with the Pioneers and other Arians ) said Christ was MUTABLE....

...As in they taught Christ COULD "mutate".

...When Ellen said Christ could have sinned and lost His Salvation THAT'S exactly what that means.

...And I posted several cases where she said just that.

In none of the quotes you posted by Ellen White does she use the word or even the concept of "mutation" or "mutated." She does not use the word "mutable," either. Those are your lablels, not hers.

Why not use her language instead of jumping to the conclusion that she means something she did not mean? That is what you are doing.

If you could point to some specific passage by her and compare it to a Bible passage, showing that it contradicts the Bible, then we would have something to talk about. But to say that she contradicts a creed is of no importance to me or to any other SDA. You might as well say she contradicts the pope or some bishop. Those "authorities" mean absolutely nothing to us. In fact, I would be concerned if she did agree with them-- because they contradict the Bible in very many ways.

[Gustave]

Where did you do this? I have not yet seen it. Was this in a post on page 1 or 2? If so, could you please give me the post number?

Page 8 of the discussion, post #439809.

[Gustave]

In none of the quotes you posted by Ellen White does she use the word or even the concept of "mutation" or "mutated." She does not use the word "mutable," either. Those are your lablels, not hers.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Adventist Review and Herald,Oct 8 1903

OF late the question has repeatedly come to me, Does it make any real difference whether we believe in the personality

of God, as long as we believe in God? My answer invariably is, It depends altogether upon the standpoint from which we view it. If from the Spiritualist's, -the Christian Scientist's,

the Universalist's, or if from the standpoint of any other " ist" or " ism," it makes but little or no difference. But

from the standpoint of Seventh-day Adventists it makes all the difference in the world.

That same article goes on to say'

Originally Posted By: IBID

Second^ At the creation God said to Christ, " Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen. 1: 26, 27. Man bore the image of God both morally and physically; for -after man sinned, we 'read'that Adam "begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." Gen. 5:3. Here is an explanation of the words " image " and "- likeness." As Seth bore both the physical and the moral nature of Adam, so Adam bore the physical and the moral likeness of God.Neither was this image of God which man bore a mere concept; for the Bible declares that the Lord has parts, the same as the human body.

Originally Posted By: IBID

Therefore we repeat what we previously said, To deny the personality of God, is to deny the existence of the sanctuary

in the heavens; for there God dwells. It is to deny the existence of the angels; for they are his throne. It is to deny' the law of God; for it is the foundation of his throne. It is to deny the existence of Satan; for he is a fallen angel.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White on Lucifer prior to Adam and Eve

I was shown Satan as he once was, a happy, exalted angel. Then I was shown him as he now is. He still bears a kingly form. His features are still noble, for he is an angel fallen. But the expression of his countenance is full of anxiety, care, unhappiness, malice, hate, mischief, deceit, and every evil. That brow which was once so noble, I particularly noticed. His forehead commenced from his eyes to recede. I saw that he had so long bent himself to evil that every good quality was debased, and every evil trait was developed. His eyes were cunning, sly, and showed great penetration. His frame was large, but the flesh hung loosely about his hands and face. As I beheld him, his chin was resting upon his left hand. He appeared to be in deep thought. A smile was upon his countenance, which made me tremble, it was so full of evil and satanic slyness. This smile is the one he wears just before he makes sure of his victim, and as he fastens the victim in his snare, this smile grows horrible.--EW 152, 153. {TA 251.3}

This is simply the tip of the iceberg on SDA statements from Ellen to the Pioneers about the "Personality of God"...

...And exactly what it means.

I frankly don't see anything wrong with those quotes, friend. I am very familiar with all of them and believe they do not contradict the Bible in any way. If you Believe the Bible teaches contrary to those statements, please show where it does so. Please be specific.

By the way, do you know the background of those statements? It had to do with the teachings of Dr. John Harvey Kellogg in a book titled, The Living Temple, in which Kellogg taught doctrines that tended toward pantheism. He beleived that God was personally in everything, including one's bath water and drinking water and in the fruit we eat and in one's boots. For Kellogg, God resides in all human beings. He said once that when we eat a piece of fruit, we are tasting God. These are the kinds of false doctrines that Ellen White was fighting against when she wrote the above statements about the importance of God's personality. I'm sure you can see the importance of her opposing such false teachings. Those teachings were coming into the SDA church and threatened to destroy the Three Angels' Messages that the church believes God raised us up for the purpose of proclaiming to all the world.

Originally Posted By: Gustave

I'll ask you again, can you produce ANYTHING from Ellen White or the Pioneers....

...Which suggested the Holy Spirit had hair, eyes, rectum, etc?

Of course not. Don't ask again. It's a foolish, absurd question based on ignorance of SDA doctrine and SDA history.

[Gustave]

You are mistaken about the idea that God's personality means that God has a rectum. That is absurd. We don't even know if Jesus Christ has a rectum. He has a glorified human body as the saved will have in the resurrection, but we have no idea whether that body will have all the same parts that human bodies have currrently. We will have to wait and see.

[John317]

Also, where does she say that Christ was not God?

Originally Posted By: Gustave

Here,

Originally Posted By: Ellen White

Among the inhabitants of heaven, Satan, next to Christ, was at one time most honored of God, and highest in power and glory. Before his fall, Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glory enshrouding the eternal God rested upon him. {ST, July 23, 1902 par. 2}

Originally Posted By: Ellen White

He was once the covering cherub, glorious in beauty and holiness. He was next to Christ in exaltation and character. It was with Satan that self-exaltation had its origin. He became jealous of Christ, and falsely accused him, and then laid blame upon the Father. He was envious of the position that was held by Christ and the Father, and he turned from his allegiance to the Commander of heaven and lost his high and holy estate. Though the angels had a knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ

RH, October 22, 1895 par. 1

Originally Posted By: Ellen White

But there the first intimation of a change in God's law was met by a decided No. This led to a battle in heaven, and Satan, next to Christ the most exalted being in the heavenly courts, was overcome, and with his sympathizers cast out of heaven. Thus it was shown that Satan was not in the right, and that God had not abrogated or changed his law. This law is the transcript of his character; and throughout the eternal ages it will remain Yea and Amen, perfect and unalterable, without variableness or shadow of turning. {RH, August 9, 1898 par. 7}

Originally Posted By: Ellen White

We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest angel in heaven. How foolish, then, to suppose that he approached Christ in the wilderness in any such form as is given him in the illustration "The Game of Life." Some here have seen that picture. After the Saviour had fasted forty days and forty nights, "he was afterward an hungered." Then it was that Satan appeared to him. He came as a beautiful angel from heaven, claiming that he had a commission from God to declare the Saviour's fast at an end. "If thou be the Son of God," he said, "command that these stones be made bread." But in Satan's insinuation of distrust, Christ recognized the enemy whose power he had come to the earth to resist. He would not accept the challenge, nor be moved by the temptation. He stood firmly to the affirmative. "Man shall not live by bread alone," he said, "but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." {RH, January 14, 1909 par. 4}

Those passages don't say Christ was not God. In fact, Ellen White says over and over that Christ was God.

You misunderstand what she is saying in those passages.

She says plainly that Jesus Christ was "God, essentially , and in the highest sense," and that Christ was equal to God the Father.

Quote:

Constantly he was petitioning God to work in behalf of the Israelites who had failed to recognize Jesus of Nazareth as the promised Messiah. "I say the truth in Christ," he assured the believers at Rome, "my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever." {AA 374.2}

Quote:

Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God. . . . In speaking of His pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. . . . {FLB 46.3}

His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures. {FLB 46.4}

Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right. {FLB 46.5}

He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. {FLB 46.6}

[Gustave]

I frankly don't see anything wrong with those quotes, friend. I am very familiar with all of them and believe they do not contradict the Bible in any way. If you Believe the Bible teaches contrary to those statements, please show where it does so. Please be specific.