Judgement time??? YES says Mark Kellner

[Igakusei]

And so did A&E. After they opened the way for sin, they actually thought that one of there sons would be the Messiah. To save the world from sin. That's why they had the sacrificial system in place. As far as the second coming only the NT followers believed this. The disciples believed that the second coming would be in there life time.Had the Jews accepted Jesus, I believe they would have been correct. The original purpose of the Hebrew nation was to show God's love throughout the than known world, but they never did. That's why Jesus told his followers to spread the gospel to every part of the world. He also gave them, when they asked him, the signs of his return. If we've noticed most of the signs are pretty much past, not many more to go. God's time table is not like ours. We want everything to happen right now.

For someone who doesn't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW, it's hard for me to accept this speculation.

[phkrause]

For someone who doesn't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW, it's hard for me to accept this speculation.

I do hope this statement is referring to you? Because I get plenty of inspiration from the Bible. For me I have something to look forward to, eternal life. I have a Savior who came and died for me and you, and everyone else who has ever lived.

[ClubV12]

It has always been God's intention for mankind to live their lives looking for His soon coming. And why not? If a man dies unexpectedly it makes little difference when God is coming, his soul was required of him on that day, regardless.

As far as the disciples go, I think it was Paul who recognized that Christ was NOT coming back in their lifetime.

[Gerr]

And how do non-creationists think the cosmos and life came to be?

[Gerr]

That's fine, but why did he need to create life with DNA that confirms common ancestry? Did he put it there just to confuse us? Why is there telomeric DNA and an extra centromere in the middle of chromosome 2? What's with all the ERVs? Is that just part of "creating a world with the appearance of age?"

Are we to conclude that because man shares so much DNA with the fruitfly that he came from the fruitfly? Or that they had a common ancestor? Or conclude that man and bananas have the same ancestor because they have so much DNA in common?

Quote:

The only answers I can find to these questions are that life actually does share common ancestry.

And another way of looking at the same evidence of DNA commonality is that there IS/WAS a Designer who used the same basic DNA building blocks for the different living things, just as He did using the same basic atomic building blocks to make different elements.

[Gerr]

This is a really old one, too.

See:

Galatians 1:4

Salvation, deliverance from this evil age, actually begins here and now, the moment one accepts Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior.

ESV | Jn 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Quote:

Hebrews 9:26

1 Peter 1:20

1 Corinthians 10:11

James 5:1,3

1 Thessalonians 1:10

Galatians 1:3-4

Hebrews 10:24-25

1 John 2:18

Romans 13:11-12

1 Corinthians 7:27

It's pretty clear from their language that the Bible writers thought it was in their lifetime. In that regard, things haven't changed much, have they?

You are right. Many of the Bible writers portrayed the Day of the Lord as imminent in their day. I suspect that it is because man has a tendency to procrastinate when he thinks he has plenty of time to get ready for anything. But the same writers also knew that there is no guarantee about tomorrow. So actually, you and everyone of us, are only a breath away from the Second Coming of Christ, because the next time you open your eyes will either be at the resurrection for life eternal or at the resurrection for eternal damnation. So we are all living in the last days, because any day can be our last. Victims of the earthquakes and tsunami, floods and tornados, are stark reminders of that fact.

However, Daniel, John in the Apocalypse, and Paul himself, all also showed that the actual cessation of life on this planet as we know it was still far into the future in their day. Check it out - Dan 2, 7, 8, 9, Rev 12,13, 16-18, 2 Thes 2.

[phkrause]

Excellent points Gerry.

[Igakusei]

Are we to conclude that because man shares so much DNA with the fruitfly that he came from the fruitfly? Or that they had a common ancestor? Or conclude that man and bananas have the same ancestor because they have so much DNA in common?

And another way of looking at the same evidence of DNA commonality is that there IS/WAS a Designer who used the same basic DNA building blocks for the different living things, just as He did using the same basic atomic building blocks to make different elements.

This doesn't explain the patterns we find in the DNA similarities between species. Common designer doesn't explain Chromosome #2, it doesn't explain ERVs, it doesn't explain nested hierarchies, and it doesn't explain geology or paleontology.

I never said that I inferred common ancestry simply because humans and fruit flies share DNA similarities. It goes much deeper than that.

[Stan]

would you mind if you went over to the creation forum on this......

Please

[karl]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

That's why Jesus told his followers to spread the gospel to every part of the world. He also gave them, when they asked him, the signs of his return. If we've noticed most of the signs are pretty much past, not many more to go. God's time table is not like ours. We want everything to happen right now.

For someone who doesn't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW, it's hard for me to accept this speculation.

Pardon me for asking, but why are you here on ClubAdventist if you don't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW? What's the point? Is your goal to facilitate people jettisoning their faith?

[karl]

That's fine, but why did he need to create life with DNA that confirms common ancestry? Did he put it there just to confuse us?

The only answers I can find to these questions are that life actually does share common ancestry.

Yes it does. All life has its ancestry in God. And the fact that all life shares common characteristics or building blocks is hardly an argument against a single Designer.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

That's why Jesus told his followers to spread the gospel to every part of the world. He also gave them, when they asked him, the signs of his return. If we've noticed most of the signs are pretty much past, not many more to go. God's time table is not like ours. We want everything to happen right now.

For someone who doesn't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW, it's hard for me to accept this speculation.

Pardon me for asking, but why are you here on ClubAdventist if you don't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW? What's the point? Is your goal to facilitate people jettisoning their faith?

[Gerr]

Maybe he just wants to test his own beliefs by pitting it against ours?

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

That's fine, but why did he need to create life with DNA that confirms common ancestry? Did he put it there just to confuse us?

The only answers I can find to these questions are that life actually does share common ancestry.

Yes it does. All life has its ancestry in God. And the fact that all life shares common characteristics or building blocks is hardly an argument against a single Designer.

Did you even read my reply to Gerry when he said the exact same thing?

[BobRyan]

See:

Galatians 1:4

Hebrews 1:1-2

Hebrews 9:26

1 Peter 1:20

1 Corinthians 10:11

James 5:1,3

1 Thessalonians 1:10

Galatians 1:3-4

Hebrews 10:24-25

1 John 2:18

Romans 13:11-12

1 Corinthians 7:27

It's pretty clear from their language that the Bible writers thought it was in their lifetime. In that regard, things haven't changed much, have they?

That is true. Matt 24:36 says that no one knows the exact day and hour.

But Matt 24 also says that if we follow the signs given - then we will know when it is near.

the great tribulation period of Matt 24 has taken place (we call it the dark ages) and many of the other signs of Matt 24 have also taken place.

In addition Daniel 7 and 8 give a down to the wire countdown of more than 2000 years pointing us to the "Time of the end" Dan 8:19.

We know that we are now beyond all those timelines.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

How interesting that Romans 10 points to NATURE as the instructor that is given them the word of FAITH so that they should believe.

Even in Romans 1 the case is made that the non-Bible pagans are "without excuse" because the "invisible attributes of God are clearly seen" in "the things that have been made".

In John 16 we are told that the Holy Spirit "convicts the World of sin and righteousness and judgment" - not just Christians.

Christ is "drawing all mankind" to himself (John 12:32) but as we see in John 1 "men love darkness rather than light".

In this free will system - each person gets to choose heaven or hell - light or darkness. Those who choose against the way of escape made through the cross - have no one else to blame.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Yes it does. All life has its ancestry in God. And the fact that all life shares common characteristics or building blocks is hardly an argument against a single Designer.

That is true. A common designer will leave something of a signature, a common style or a tendency to favor a certain kind of solution.

But what you do NOT see - is eukaryote systems "acquiring" new genetic information - new coding genes and then marching up the taxonomic scale. The central mechanism of evolutionism turns out to be pure fiction which is somewhat of an embarrassment for informed evolutionists. (Which may account for Dawkins' own 11 second totally flummoxed response proves when asked to provide an "observation in nature" demonstrating the central tenet of evolutionism.)

in Christ,

Bob

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

According to the World Health Organization, some 56 Million deaths occur per year, at the current global average. ...

able2know.org/topic/65174-1 - Similar

A fact when there is no Savior, not opinion.

When there is a Savior;

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”"Revelation 21:4 NLT

It is a fact that you will ultimately die, as will I should the Savior not come first. The question then remains, as I trust in a loving Creator to give me that promised life, at the resurrection if not sooner at His coming, which of us, you or I, are guaranteed to have absolutely nothing in the not too distant future? I Who trust in the Lifegiver, or you who trust in death.

Even a sane gambler wouldn't turn down the odds of possibly acquiring uncounted billions of years of riches, against the guaranteed results of nothing. So perhaps making the gamble of believing in the words of the Lifegiver would give more present comfort than being assured of nothing for eternity.

"For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten."Ecclesiastes 9:5 NASB

So if we all who have no God we can trust, are going to die, wouldn't it be worth exploring the God Who died that we might live? Doesn't seem to make much sense to brag about accepting a belief that offers so little for spending an often painful 50-100 years without any other hope.

"Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?”

“Yes, Lord,” she told him. “I have always believed you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who has come into the world from God.”" John 11:25-27 NLT

God blesses!

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

...

For someone who doesn't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW, it's hard for me to accept this speculation.

Pardon me for asking, but why are you here on ClubAdventist if you don't see inspiration in either the Bible or EGW? What's the point? Is your goal to facilitate people jettisoning their faith?

Pardon me for asking, is your hospitality gene inactive or dormant? Or is it just that your bluntness/rudeness genes are dominant?

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And we'll find out soon enough whether it's fact, fiction, or merely opinion.

No, I don't think we will. People have been saying this for two thousand years, and unfortunately they'll continue saying it for a long time.

And the key elements that reveal the fallacy of your conclusion

are you only think, and secondly you make an assumption that recognizes in the short time the human race has existed, nothing will change in the future that has not already happened in the past. The same attitude of mind that existed for 120 years while Noah built the ark, much to the chagrin if not the outright horror of the population who had never seen rain and so believed it was impossible ever to happen.

As the empirical evidence of the flood is fully verified by archaelogical and fossil findings, so also is the reality of Gerry's comments, in the events of the days we live.

" “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes."Matthew 24:37-39 NLT

God blesses!

[BobRyan]

The Bible was proven true even at the level of the atheist - when you study the book of Daniel.

The 490 years predicted the exact date for the baptism of Christ.

The 1260 years predicted the dark ages would come after the fall of the pagan Roman empire.

The 2300 days predicted the "time of the end" - the start of the judgment scene depicted in Dan 7.

The data is too compelling to simply turn a blind eye to the Bible - for the objective unbiased reader.

in Christ,

Bob

[Igakusei]

And the key elements that reveal the fallacy of your conclusion

are you only think, and secondly you make an assumption that recognizes in the short time the human race has existed, nothing will change in the future that has not already happened in the past. The same attitude of mind that existed for 120 years while Noah built the ark, much to the chagrin if not the outright horror of the population who had never seen rain and so believed it was impossible ever to happen.

As the empirical evidence of the flood is fully verified by archaelogical and fossil findings, so also is the reality of Gerry's comments, in the events of the days we live.

I "only think" as opposed to "thinking I know with absolute certainty?"

To quote our good friend Charles Darwin, "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."

I'm not sure what you know about archaeological and fossil findings, but nothing we've seen so far in geology supports the Biblical flood story. I'm sure you've watched creationist programs that talk about fossils on mountains and whatnot, but if you actually look up all of those references you'll find that in the details they don't support the flood at all.

Finally, my 2000 year comment refers to the timeline of Christianity, not the timeline of the human race. Humans, in roughly their modern physiological form, have been around for over 100,000 years.

[doug yowell]

I "only think" as opposed to "thinking I know with absolute certainty?"

Humans, in roughly their modern physiological form, have been around for over 100,000 years.

Can you say that with absolute certainty?

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I "only think" as opposed to "thinking I know with absolute certainty?"

Humans, in roughly their modern physiological form, have been around for over 100,000 years.

Can you say that with absolute certainty?

We could all be simulations in a computer program. I could have been created a millisecond ago, complete with memories of reading your post and typing half of this reply. We will never know anything with absolute certainty, but that certainly doesn't mean that all alternate ideas are equally likely to be correct.

Here's some reading material to get you started.

http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens

[doug yowell]

We could all be simulations in a computer program. I could have been created a millisecond ago, complete with memories of reading your post and typing half of this reply. We will never know anything with absolute certainty, but that certainly doesn't mean that all alternate ideas are equally likely to be correct.

Uh, too many Matrix minutes,Ig.