What converts a religious group into a "cult" or "hated setct"?

[Windsor]

The words of Ellen White ring more true every single day. I can't but help to believe that her following words hold a very special application today.

"The present is a time of great peril to the people of God. God is leading out a people, not an individual here and there. He has a church on the earth, that abide in the truth; and when we see, not only men, but young girls, crying out against the church, we are afraid of them. We know God has not sent them, yet they ran, and all who do not accept their erratic ideas are denounced as warring against the Spirit of the Lord. All such things are in Satan’s line, but the work of God will go forward while there are now and ever will be those who work directly against the prayer of Christ. The work will advance, leaving them with their satanic inventions far behind."

[Brother Peter]

It is amazing that there is a great similarity between this generation and that one during the time of Christ.The message of Christ was not accepted by those claiming to be looking for the coming of Jesus. When he came very few knew it. Those claiming to be following and living for God did not accept the message he brought from God for that generation. They called him Satan, a wine bibber, they ridicule him, they mocked him and his few disciples.

They did the same thing in Noah's day too, when he brought them the the truth for their time, until it was too late. History will repeat it self once more. Do not remain on the out side. There is lots of room in the last Ark that is waiting. There is gross darkness on the land and only those who make themselves willing and ready to be used by God will be able to see clearly. _______________

Bro.P.

[miz3]

Well, Brother Peter what do you say is that "ark"?

[fccool]

1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

[BobRyan]

Which of course makes the Christian Church of the NT - a cult.

That is why I added that detail about the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

[Pastor_Chick]

The early Christian Church was "a hated sect" and also "illegal."

What caused them to be HATED and ILLEGAL?

[ClubV12]

Originally Posted By: GC 635

"When the protection of human laws shall be withdrawn from those who honor the law of God, there will be, in different lands, a simultaneous movement for their destruction. As the time appointed in the decree draws near, the people will conspire to root out the hated sect."

Pastor Chick responds:

"This "hated sect" is NOT General Conference Seventh-day Adventists."

Nor will it be the "Creation 7th Day Adventist", as seems to be implied.

THAT last days group will be comprised of any and all people, still alive, that have accepted the Sabbath and will not be turned from it, no matter what. That group may well include recently converted Catholics who are not an "official" member of any group! "Membership", in any organization, will be of little concern to those hiding and fleeing for their very lives in that time.

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

THAT last days group will be comprised of any and all people, still alive, that have accepted the Sabbath and will not be turned from it, no matter what. That group may well include recently converted Catholics who are not an "official" member of any group! "Membership", in any organization, will be of little concern to those hiding and fleeing for their very lives in that time.

[skyblue888]

The 144,000 were all sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, New Jerusalem, and a glorious Star containing Jesus' new name. At our happy, holy state the wicked were enraged, and would rush violently up to lay hands on us to thrust us in prison, when we would stretch forth the hand in the name of the Lord, and the wicked would fall helpless to the ground. Then it was that the synagogue of Satan knew that God had loved us who could wash one another's feet, and salute the holy brethren with a holy kiss, and they worshipped at our feet.

Originally Posted By: SpM 1

I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure people, little known to the Catholics; but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs...

______________________________________________________

Now I think these quotes speak for themselves.

sky

[ClubV12]

I have no problems with either of those quotes, lets look at the time frame.

First quote speaks of the 144,000, the last living Saints on the planet at the time of the final death decree. A time when any "organized" church has long since ceased to exist. THIS group, the 144,000, is in the very midst of severe persecution. They cannot buy or sell and are being hunted and abused. But God is protecting them, soon, they will face the final act, the death decree.

If I understand the CSDA doctrine correctly it says the 144,000 may actually exist today and are in the process of finishing the work, or something close to that? Here, we depart on the definition of the 144,000. My belief is that is the number of Saints still alive in the very last days of this earth, hiding and fleeing for their lives for the most part, and soon to face a death penalty, are the 144,000.

Second quote:

The slow process of who will eventually comprise this group of "very last days living Saints" will begin in earnest when the "churches", nominal Seventh-day Adventists AND members or former members of the CSDA church turn on those who are determined to follow the Lord unto death.

WHO will turn on this soon to be, elect, chosen group of 144,000? Anybody and everybody who has rejected the last offer of mercy. The 144,000 DOES NOT EXIST TODAY. The CSDA, the SDA, the Baptist, NONE can lay claim to being in that group today. Only God knows who will comprise it and only when that time of trouble is upon the world.

I recognize we take substantially different roads on the definition and understanding of the 144,000.

[miz3]

Looking at those statements and pastorchick's underlining one can see why pastorchick is so anxious to fight with the SDA Church. He actually wants to go to jail with his followers so he can point and say "see we fulfill the criteria for the 144,000". Another David Koresh!

Very clever pastorchick!

However, a phony attempt to meet criteria doesn't cut it with God. God is not fooled by your phony baloney rock'n roll moves.

I feel sorry for the duped followers who suffer needlessly because of you. For instance, poor Sheila7 who is so entranced with you she cannot see straight.

[Jody]

Dear Miz, As Sheila7's very close friend I can assure you that Sheila7 can see very straight. As she shared, she is studying to become a member. I also have been studying with this group for almost 2 years, and in all that time nothing I've read has led me in the least to believe that Pastor is "picking a fight" with the SDA church. In fact we both feel very blessed that our Heavenly Father led us to this group and our faith is being strengthened and we are drawing closer to our Saviour. I've been reading all the posts including yours, and I feel sorry for you. I've been praying for you in fact that your eyes would be opened to see the beauty of the truth of the victory message, better known as righteousness by faith. You have stated that a sign of a cult is someone claiming that they have overcome all known sin. Gustave says it's a sure sign of a heretic. What is so cultish or heretical about claiming by faith the victory/righteousness Christ lived to give us. We gladly accept His death for our sins that are past. Rom.3:25 But what of the new life, the new creation, old things that are passed away? What are the old things if not the sins and the nature that can not overcome? If we have the mind of Christ Col. 2:16, and He lives in us Col.1:27, will we not also overcome as He overcame? The Spirit says we can.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. - Rom 6:6 KJV

For he that is dead is freed from sin. - Rom 6:7 KJV

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. - Rom 6:10 KJV

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. - Rom 6:11 KJV

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. - Rom 6:12 KJV

Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. - Rom 6:13 KJV

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? - Rom 6:16 KJV

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. - Rom 6:18 KJV

It seems to me that if we are still sinning that we have not died/been crucified with Christ and we need to repent and be converted. To say anything else would be to spread the lies of the enemy.

In love and concern

Jody

[miz3]

Jody,

Your texts are well noted. I never said that overcoming all known sin is bad. In fact such a life is desirable.

Please answer this question:

Who decides when Jody has reached the point where she has overcome all known sin?

I want you answer not what pastorchick tells you to tell me. Now I can't know for sure whether it really is your answer or one that pastorchick gives you but I would like an answer none the less.

Thank you Jody!

[Jody]

Jody,

Your texts are well noted. I never said that overcoming all known sin is bad.

In fact such a life is desirable.

Miz

I got that from these things you wrote

I also know that pastorchick and his flock believe they have overcome all known sin?????

And this one

This is yet another evidence of your cultish nature because you are stubbornly holding on to your position which has clearly been shown to be in error. …

4. I am not claiming to have overcome all known sin.

Also, such a life is possible if we not only desire it, but believe it, and receive it! Amen!

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things [are] possible to him that believeth. - Mar 9:23 KJV

Talk and act as if your faith was invincible. Christ Object Lessons 147 EGW

Please answer this question:

Who decides when Jody has reached the point where she has overcome all known sin?

I want you answer not what pastorchick tells you to tell me. Now I can't know for sure whether it really is your answer or one that pastorchick gives you but I would like an answer none the less.

Thank you Jody!

I and my Saviour decide when I have overcome all known sin in my life. They are after all the sins I know about that must be overcome when Christs' spirit convicts me of them.

Now I have a question for you. Where have you gotten the idea that Pastor Chick tells any of us what to say to you or anyone else?

Blessings and goodnight.

[miz3]

Jody,

Just to make sure I have this straight.

When you and God decide that you have overcome all known sin, then pastorchick and the CSDA will agree with that assessment without question? I am just trying to understand the process.

Is this correct?

Now to answer your question:

Primarily pastorchick gave me that idea, and secondarily from the posts made by you and Sheila7.

[fccool]

It is amazing that there is a great similarity between this generation and that one during the time of Christ.The message of Christ was not accepted by those claiming to be looking for the coming of Jesus. When he came very few knew it. Those claiming to be following and living for God did not accept the message he brought from God for that generation. They called him Satan, a wine bibber, they ridicule him, they mocked him and his few disciples.

In words of Ghandi... "We like your Christ. We don't like your Christians."

[miz3]

There were also a great many fanatical cults in Jesus' day also that claimed to correct the Jewish Church. Jesus Christ did not endorse a one of them.

[fccool]

The question is as to who he would endorse today, and whether the days of worship and other dogma is more important than compassion and empathy?

[Pastor_Chick]

The question is as to who he would endorse today, and whether the days of worship and other dogma is more important than compassion and empathy?

Now, that is another breath of fresh Spirit!

[skyblue888]

I agree that Jesus did not endorse any of the cults of His day but He did not exclude them either. He went about doing good to all and presented the truth to all.

As to the matter of overcoming sin, the Bible teaches that we can overcome as Jesus overcame but those who do overcome as Jesus overcame will be the last ones to brag about it.

Many years ago I met with a group of adventists who were claiming that they were without sin. One would say that he or she had not sinned for six months or for a whole year, etc etc., and that if I could not give a similar testimony I needed to be anointed. I refused to be anointed by them and when I left they told me they could not wish me God's speed.

I told them that if they were truly righteous they would be unconscious of it just like a healthy man is scarcely conscious that he is in the enjoyment of so rich a boon. See The Sanctified Life, p.13.

Since they could not agree with that, I had no choice but to be on my way.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

sky,

Did those people have a name? Were they claiming to be some kind of SDA?

[skyblue888]

Yes Pastor Chick, I believe their name was "The Lord Our Righteousness" and they were adventists.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

[...] and that if I could not give a similar testimony I needed to be anointed. I refused to be anointed by them and when I left they told me they could not wish me God's speed.[...]

Adventists were "anointing"? What was that?

[skyblue888]

By "anointing" they meant the laying on of hands.

sky

[fccool]

Sky, in annointing there was some oil involved, if you read OT history. I believe laying on hands was laying on hands. That's one of the reasons Mormons were telling me that they are the true people, because they still lay on hands.