What converts a religious group into a "cult" or "hated setct"?

[miz3]

Many years ago I met with a group of adventists who were claiming that they were without sin. One would say that he or she had not sinned for six months or for a whole year, etc etc., and that if I could not give a similar testimony I needed to be anointed. I refused to be anointed by them and when I left they told me they could not wish me God's speed.

Even as a child I remember hearing some SDA offshoot groups claim to be sinless. I have been in their homes, eaten their food and slept overnight. I have also listened to their claims of being more pure than the SDA Church.

The SDA Church is far from perfect (even though most SDA think the Church is perfect) but such cultish offshoots are no better than those they claim to need cleaning.

The claim of being sinless or as pastorchick and the CSDA also claim to commit no known sin is a clear earmark of almost all SDA offshoot movements. Such groups or individuals that are cultish will almost always take this "no known sin" Doctrine as having been attained.

Isn't that right, pastorchick?

[Pastor_Chick]

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The claim of being sinless or as pastorchick and the CSDA also claim to commit no known sin is a clear earmark of almost all SDA offshoot movements. Such groups or individuals that are cultish will almost always take this "no known sin" Doctrine as having been attained.

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Please list for us the "SDA offshoot movements" that profess to committing "no known sin." I am sincerely interested in reading this list.

[miz3]

pastorchick,

I was talking not about official positions by group entities but of individuals who I knew that belonged to such offshoot movements.

As I stated, what is typical of these offshoot movements is that they claim to have a "superior godly experience" in contrast to the original entity. As such many such individuals claim to have overcome all known sin.

This same experience is also typical of all cultish movements.

As such pastorchick you also are claiming a "superior godly experience" in fact you flat claim to have actually overcome all known sin.

Your vindictive attitude toward the SDA Church alone makes your claim to sinless perfection a flat out falsehood.

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: miz3

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The claim of being sinless or as pastorchick and the CSDA also claim to commit no known sin is a clear earmark of almost all SDA offshoot movements. Such groups or individuals that are cultish will almost always take this "no known sin" Doctrine as having been attained.

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Please list for us the "SDA offshoot movements" that profess to committing "no known sin." I am sincerely interested in reading this list.

OK, so you have no list -- just bitterness and hot air. I really do wonder if you have any "friends" or family members that enjoy spending time with you?

Now, while your style is extremely offensive in spirit, your criticisms are not doing any damage to the image of CSDA as such, and in fact, most of what you are repeating over and over will probably have the opposite effect. This is natural via the "law of cause and effect."

If we would enter into the joy of our Lord, we must be colaborers with Him. With the love of Jesus warm in our hearts, we shall always see some way to reach the minds and hearts of others. It will make us unselfish, thoughtful, and kind; and kindness opens the door of hearts; gentleness is mightier far than a Jehu spirit. (RH 02-10-85)

[bUT]...if you can find some excuse to neglect your own heart-work by dwelling upon what you term the wrongs of another, you will do it with the greatest satisfaction. (PH155 18)

[miz3]

pastorchick,

Have you heard of the "Lord Our Righteousness" offshoot group?

Have you heard of Bob Mutch from Canada?

Have you heard of Brimsmead---Australia?

In regard to Brimsmead there were many of his Canadian people who believed they had overcome all known sin.

Thus, it is an earmark of Cultish groups. All cultish groups claim to be rising to a higher spiritual standard both corporately and individually.

It is not the only earmark of their cultishness but it is one of several earmarks.

It is certainly a MAJOR EARMARK OF THE CSDA AND pastorchick.

[Sheila7]

The CSDA church is united in mind and spirit (which is scriptural) Questions are always coming up and answers are always given from the scripture. No one at any time is ever told what to say. A cult leader will keep his flock from questioning anything he has to say.

Please give examples of posts where, Pastor Chick, Jody and myself give you the idea that Pastor Chick tells his church (and those studying to become a member) are told what to say. You keep bringing this up.

Your conclusions demonstrate delusion and presumption. The things you say are unkind and an outright lie. I too, will pray that your hard spirit be softened by the Holy Spirit.

The CSDA movement is completely true and obedient to our Holy Bible. This is the reason I am studying with this movement of reform. Reform happened with Martin Luther and it is happening now.

Sincerely, yours in Christ's love and grace,

Sheila7

[miz3]

Sheila7,

Let me ask you a Bible question. It requires an answer from the Bible.

Is there a "year/day Principle" found in the Bible? If so can you tell me where such a "Principle" exists?

I have more Bible questions but this is a start.

[karl]

There is precedence for day-year associations.

Nearly all Christian Bible scholars agree that the prophecy of the seventy weeks found in Chapter 9 of the Book of Daniel utilizes the day-year principle.

And if Christ comes soon, the thousand year rest for the earth will happen roughly in the seventh millenium (to the Lord a day is as a thousand years.... 2 Peter 3:8)

[skyblue888]

pastorchick,

Have you heard of the "Lord Our Righteousness" offshoot group?

Have you heard of Bob Mutch from Canada?

Have you heard of Brimsmead---Australia?

In regard to Brimsmead there were many of his Canadian people who believed they had overcome all known sin.

Thus, it is an earmark of Cultish groups. All cultish groups claim to be rising to a higher spiritual standard both corporately and individually.

It is not the only earmark of their cultishness but it is one of several earmarks.

It is certainly a MAJOR EARMARK OF THE CSDA AND pastorchick.

Have you heard of Bob Mutch from Canada?

How is he? never heard of him.

sky

[miz3]

skyblue888,

He exists. Just cause you never heard of him does not mean he does not exist.

Would a google search help? Try it and see.

[ClubV12]

Oh no!!!! NO!!!!! Arraggggghhhh, the dreaded day/year principle that wouldnt die, lets beat that dead horse one more time.

...don't take the bait Shiela, no matter what you say, nothing will change.

[miz3]

There is precedence for day-year associations.

Nearly all Christian Bible scholars agree that the prophecy of the seventy weeks found in Chapter 9 of the Book of Daniel utilizes the day-year principle.

"Nearly all Christian Bible scholars agree" that Sunday is the Sabbath. Does that make it correct?

NO! NO! NO!

[karl]

Originally Posted By: karl

There is precedence for day-year associations.

Nearly all Christian Bible scholars agree that the prophecy of the seventy weeks found in Chapter 9 of the Book of Daniel utilizes the day-year principle.

"Nearly all Christian Bible scholars agree" that Sunday is the Sabbath. Does that make it correct?

NO! NO! NO!

Nearly all Bible scholars agree that the sun came up this morning. Does that make them all wrong?

Of course not. (Well, actually the horizon moved up, but it's just a figure of speech.)

You have to take each argument on its merits. Sorry I mentioned the scholars.

How about reading Daniel 9 and see whether the day-year principle that most, or many, or maybe just the occasional itinerant preachers have found, is there? Look at verse 25.

Christ was the long awaited Messiah, the King of the Jews as prophesied in Daniel 9:25 over 600 years earlier. Jesus entered Jerusalem and offered Himself as King of the Jews in the year and on the exact day that Daniel foretold if the day-year principle is true. Daniel prophesied that the Messiah the King would make a covenant by sacrifice, which Jesus did at the cross when he gave His life for the sin of the world. Daniel also prophesied that Jerusalem and the temple would be destroyed which it was in 70 AD.

[miz3]

karl,

You establish the Principle first and then apply the Principle.

You are making an application out of nothing and if it seems to fit then you say there is a principle behind it even though that principle does not work on anything else.

You cannot say there is a "year/day Principle" without establishing that principle in the Bible first. No such principle exists.

You cannot use happenstance on one thing to establish a principle.

[ClubV12]

The year/day principle is well established in the bible, much of this chit chat is nothing more than taking something simple and shrouding it in mystery.

[miz3]

You people need to google "numerology and the Bible" and "Bible and codes" or something along that line. It is amazing what you come up with.

People have used such numerical systems to demonstrate that long before something happened the Bible predicted it by the numerical systems. Example: Bin Laden and September 11, 2001, the twin towers are all predicted using such systems.

Is it real or is it just COINCIDENCE?

Just like your "year/day Principle" in regard to Daniel 9 is just a coincidence the numbers seem to fit. Then you have to engage in complicated gymnastics to make such a thing fit into other numerological verses like the 2300 stuff.

As cheddar pointed why don't you apply the "year/day" to the days of Creation, or to the prophetic 1000 years in Revelation, etc. etc.? Why are they not symbolic and the others are? Its just foolish imagination.

The reason you don't apply it across the board is because you would look absurd.

You take one coincidence and blow it up into a big Doctrine.

[skyblue888]

The year/day principle is well established in the bible, much of this chit chat is nothing more than taking something simple and shrouding it in mystery.

Right on.

sky

[Stan]

Often among SDA believers you will hear or read what has been called "Catholic bashing." All too often, other "undesirables" such as Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Davidian Seventh Day Adventists, Creation 7th Day Adventists, and the likes are maligned.

What is it, then, that converts the various religious communities into what would be called "a cult" or even a "hated sect"?

With all due respect, your Church had 3 members, is that correct? How can that be a hated sect? I have meant to ask, how did you become a Pastor? Was that academic, assigned or like many others a calling from God.

I fully support you in challenging some of the generally accepted teachings of the Adventist Church, even though I do not agree with your conclusion and hypotheses. I have friends with the same position of the name as you do. I have asked them to address me, using my name in the original language.

Pastor Chick, please re read the great commission. AND press forward with that. As you know I do not support imitating the good name of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.. but we have gone over that

I just see so much time and money wasted, while people are dying without home..

again, provide me with the name, and I will purchase that and set up a blog or even a forum, with the purpose of spreading the good news. If it is just about attacking the adventist church, then my interest drops a lot.

Courage

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: Pastor_Chick

Often among SDA believers you will hear or read what has been called "Catholic bashing." All too often, other "undesirables" such as Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Davidian Seventh Day Adventists, Creation 7th Day Adventists, and the likes are maligned.

What is it, then, that converts the various religious communities into what would be called "a cult" or even a "hated sect"?

With all due respect, your Church had 3 members, is that correct? How can that be a hated sect? I have meant to ask, how did you become a Pastor? Was that academic, assigned or like many others a calling from God.

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I just see so much time and money wasted, while people are dying without home..

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Stan,

I do not have any idea what you consider "due respect." From what I can read of your belief system, I think I fear it.

The "three members" controversy has been answered a number of times. BUT, in case you choose to believe the misrepresentation, here is some inspired commentary which aptly applies:

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them." Where Christ is, even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. (17MR 81, 82)

Your line of questioning reveals much. Following your inquiry to its logical end would finally ask, "What rabbinical school was the Savior graduated from?" I believe the world has so pervaded your mind that spiritual things have little to no significant influence or noticeable impact. That is my interpretation of the words you convey to me.

I suggest you and others of your persuasion would do well to think seriously about ALL of God's counsel, including, but not limited to--

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Matt. 6:24)

[Stan]

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

[Stan]

FWIW some of great leaders have not graduated from High School.

[Sonny]

FWIW some of great leaders have not graduated from High School.

Like Christ, who only had a trade as a boy....Jesus never attended college....He had no degree. He grew in wisdom....He learned from the Father. And He was the greatest preacher.

[Pastor_Chick]

Why can't you just answer a simple question?

[miz3]

With all due respect, your Church had 3 members, is that correct? How can that be a hated sect? I have meant to ask, how did you become a Pastor? Was that academic, assigned or like many others a calling from God.

pastorchick once again you are evasive which I have told you is a clear sign of something being a cult! A dangerous cult!

Stan merely asked you some straight questions which I quoted above. You refuse to answer. Refusal to answer such questions comes only from some cult that has much to hide.

What are you hiding pastorchick?

If you are indeed a straight up person then answer Stan's questions. I will repeat them below.

1. Does your church have only three members?

2. How many members do you actually have? (that's my question).

3. How are you a hated sect?

4. How did you become a pastor?

5. Is your pastor position academic assigned or was it a calling from God?

There you go pastorchick five easy questions. We await your straight up answers.

[Guest]

You people need to google "numerology and the Bible" and "Bible and codes"

No we don't. Knock yourself out.