A "theological question" pastors fail to answer.

[Pastor_Chick]

Hello Fellow Theologians,

There is a Scripture passage in the New Testament that is read as follows:

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Cor. 15:3, 4)

The New Testament was not available at the time Paul wrote to the Corinthians.

Do you know which Scripture the Apostle was referring to? Please share. (I doubt you will find the answer in SOP.)

[skyblue888]

Why should this be a question for theologians?

I have always understood that Paul was referring to Old Testament Scriptures.

sky

[Pastor_Chick]

What do you mean? I have always understood that Paul was referring to Old Testament Scriptures.

sky

[skyblue888]

It's all through the Old Testament from Genesis to Malachi.

[Pastor_Chick]

It's all through the Old Testament from Genesis to Malachi.

sky,

You must read Paul's text again. He gives some specifics that are "according to the Scriptures." Which Scriptures give those specifics?

[cricket]

Isaiah 53:5 and Psalms 16:10

[olger]

There are no direct Old Testament prophesies about a resurrection after three days, but a curious passage is found in Hosea 6: 2, which says: After two days He will revive us; On the "third day" He will raise us up that we might live in His sight. Also since the letter to the Corinthian Church is dated to be around 56 AD, the Gospel of MATTHEW is believed to have been written as early as 50 AD, it is possible that Paul could have used this book as reference material or used the quotation from HOSEA.

Leviticus 7: 11, 15-18

This is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings which he shall offer before the LORD. The flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offering for "thanksgiving" (Cp. Philippians 4: 6; Colossians 4: 2) shall be eaten the same day it is offered. He shall not leave any of it till the morning. But if the sacrifice of his offering is a vow or voluntary offering, it shall be eaten the same day that he offers his sacrifice; but on the next day the remainder of it shall also be eaten; the remainder of the flesh of the sacrifice on the third day must be burned with fire. And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offering is eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, nor shall it be "imputed" to him; it shall be an abomination to him who offers it, and the person who eats it shall bear guilt [his iniquity, transgression or sin].

John 6: 51, 53

"I AM the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world." Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you."

hope that is useful,

g

[miz3]

pastorchick,

Hadn't you to quote the whole paragraph?

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

1Corinthians 15:3-8.

By leaving this out you might leave out important clues!

[Pastor_Chick]

Thank you, cricket and olger for your contributions.

I think what you have presented gives some valid support to Paul's reference, but I am looking for the "Scriptures" that relate to the specifics of what Paul wrote to the Corinthians.

I am not yet satisfied.

[miz3]

pastorchick,

Are you angling to show that you are a prophet?

Hmmmmm!

[fccool]

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Quote:

Isaiah 53:5. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

This one is a bit more difficult, because it's very specific. You'd have to heavily rely on tradition and isolated texts like:

Quote:

Psalm 16:10 You will not abandon me to the grave, you will not let your Holy One see decay.

But there's no direct reference to the burial or 3 day resurrection.

[cricket]

Pastor "Chick", why don't you answer the question that you, yourself pose. You seem to know the answer you're looking for. If you answer yourself, you'll be satisfied.

[Pastor_Chick]

Pastor "Chick", why don't you answer the question that you, yourself pose. You seem to know the answer you're looking for. If you answer yourself, you'll be satisfied.

cricket,

I have expressed appreciation for your contribution. And, you are not satisfied.

[cricket]

I am not yet satisfied.

Was only trying to help you to find satisfaction. Please do not presume that I am not satisfied when I did not state as much.

/eof

[Pastor_Chick]

Originally Posted By: Pastor_Chick

I am not yet satisfied.

Was only trying to help you to find satisfaction. Please do not presume that I am not satisfied when I did not state as much.

Oh, that is YOUR way of "trying to help." Now, I know? Thank you may be in order.

[phkrause]

Hello Fellow Theologians,

There is a Scripture passage in the New Testament that is read as follows:

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Cor. 15:3, 4)

The New Testament was not available at the time Paul wrote to the Corinthians.

Do you know which Scripture the Apostle was referring to? Please share. (I doubt you will find the answer in SOP.)

According to EGW (SOP) "The Desire of Ages" pg. 406, 3rd paragraph down she says: "And He signed deeply in His spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign?" "There shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas." As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, Christ was to be the same time "in the heart of the earth."

As I was growing up I had always heard that Jonah was who most if not all preachers considered to be the scripture that they went by, as to who Paul was refering to.

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

According to EGW (SOP) "The Desire of Ages" pg. 406, 3rd paragraph down she says: "And He signed deeply in His spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign?" "There shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas." As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, Christ was to be the same time "in the heart of the earth."

As I was growing up I had always heard that Jonah was who most if not all preachers considered to be the scripture that they went by, as to who Paul was refering to.

pk,

Thank you for this information. It seems like a stretch to me, but it is worth some meditation.

[Scion]

Oh, good.

1) I was able to find the Theological Town Hall again... not sure why I wasn't able to see it for the past couple days.

2) I have found a theological discussion that hasn't (yet) been derailed by personality conflicts that have nothing to do with the topic, although I think I saw an attempt somewhere on page 1.

So, let me take a swing at this one.

As I see it, the original question relates to these verses:

Quote:

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (1 Cor. 15:3, 4)

I've seen some interesting ideas so far, but I am not sure if they address both things that Paul was talking about. He said that two things happened according to the Scriptures.

1) Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

2) He was buried, and He rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures.

I think the first one is pretty easy, actually. Someone already mentioned the "Suffering Servant" passage from Isaiah (the entire 53rd chapter), and there is also this powerful one from Zechariah:

Quote:

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech 12:10)

It is also very clear from this verse that the Messiah would not (only) be the conquering King, but also a sacrifice for humanity:

Quote:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan 9:26, 27)

I read that some groups think that is actually talking about the Antichrist, but I think it is pretty clear what it is talking about. A few years ago I read an Adventist commentary on this passage that really laid it out quite plainly.

The second part is a little more difficult. It not only suggests that the Scriptures indicate a resurrection, which it does in symbol all over the place, but it also specifies a time limit.

A couple posts ago I saw someone mention Jonah, who was indeed in the fish for three days, and that sounds like a good reference, but I don't know if I am "satisfied" with it entirely (to use a word I saw earlier in the postings) because Paul doesn't really reference Jonah anywhere else, and Jonah would be a really obscure reference to just throw into the middle of a conversation without any explanation. When Jesus said that the only sign given to them would be the sign of the prophet Jonah, He actually explained what He was talking about. But for Paul, I think it might help to read the rest of that passage in 1 Cor 15.

Quote:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. (1Cor 15:20)

Quote:

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1Cor 15:23)

Earlier, Paul is talking about the feast days, and he says:

Quote:

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us. (1Cor 5:7)

Paul talks a lot about those two things, the passover and the firstfruits, when speaking of Christ's death. And actually, the firstfruits and the passover are connected to each other in an interesting way. Take a look at this:

Quote:

In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. (Lev 23:5 to 11)

So we have the sacrifice, then a day of rest (a Sabbath) and then the firstfruits of the harvest. Has anyone seen that before? That is three days (inclusive) between the sacrifice and the firstfruits being offered with a day of rest in between! And Paul calls Christ both the passover AND the firstfruits. I think that harvest symbolism is important, because another verse says:

Quote:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. (John 12:24)

That is from John's Gospel, probably the one most focused on Christ's mission, and themes of death and resurrection. In fact, John is the only one who mentions the raising of Lazarus, (John 11) although it's such a major miracle in the life of Jesus. So it seems to me that we actually DO have Scriptures "according to" which Paul can say Christ both died for our sins, and then was raised on the third day. If it is true He is the passover AND the firstfruits, as Paul says He is, then the symbols given in Leviticus 23 seem to match it perfectly. That may actually be a bit more obscure than the reference to Jonah, but if we look at the symbols that Paul DOES use a lot (passover, firstfruits, leaven, bread) it ties in quite well to his style of writing.

I might add more if I think about it, but these are the verses that come to mind when I read through 1 Corinthians, especially the resurrection passages.

[phkrause]

Thank you for this information. It seems like a stretch to me, but it is worth some meditation.

Why would this be a stretch. The only thing that I don't remember is how they get around the 3 days 3 nights. I believe that even Jesus says in the NT that he would rise on the 3rd day. When I recall I'll get back, but in the meantime maybe John317 has the answer.

[miz3]

pastorchick,

Are you talking about the written Scripture?

NO!

You are not talking about the written Scripture:

you are talking about the Scripture that is "in your mouth"!

Isn't this correct pastorchick?

I've seen fishing (human casting for humans for evil purpose) but you are definitely one of them.

[Loneranger1]

Well, here's my two cents worth - a scripture that refers to him dying for our sins "... he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgressions of my people was he stricken." Isaiah 53:8; as for being buried, in Deuteronomy 21:23 it says: "His body shall not remain all night on the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;)..." as for rising the third day I don't know, except maybe Jonah.

[skyblue888]

I believe the key to this discussion is to be found in the meaning of these words "in the heart of the earth" As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, Christ was to be the same time "in the heart of the earth."

We don't have to wait for Jesus to be in the grave to be "in the heart of the earth." He was in the "heart of the earth" when in Getsemaneh he began to feel the weight of the sins of the whole world upon Him.

sky

[Parade Orange]

i agree SKY! i said that in this forum years ago and no one took me serious!

finally someone echoing that brilliant thought

[miz3]

You people don't get it!

pastorchick is angling for us to affirm him as a prophet!

Read the Opening Post! It's all there!

[Light Fox]

While I agree with that view of he "heart of the earth" passage sky, I have a problem with it being submitted as an answer to this thread; the question wasn't about three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, but another book altogether where Paul says Christ was "raised the third day, according to the Scriptures." Raised from what? Not from the 'heart of the earth'; from when He "died, and was buried." That's what the verse in question is talking about, not Gethsemane. So we're looking at two different issues here.

Looking through the thread - specifically the last page - I think Scion may have pretty well nailed it. The type-antitypes in the feasts are really the only thing I can think of that would be "according to the Scriptures" for that time period, and it fits in very well with the overall context of 1 Corinthians.