How inspiration works

[ClubV12]

It's the straight testimony miz3.

You are the accuser of the brethren, you won't stop. Your latest gig is to "DEMAND" through intimidation and harassement an apology from members where none is do. Really, it's embarrasing that you call yourself a christian with the attitude you display in you never ending accusations and demands on the people of this forum.

[miz3]

You are the accuser of the brethren, you won't stop

I am NOT the accuser of the brethren. I am however the one who cites Scripture to back up what I say. I am the one who hates it when "the brethren" as you call them twist, contort, add human reason and garbage, and elevate other humans, etc. to the Scripture and above the Scripture.

You are correct that to the extent God gives me I will not stop defending God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God (Bible).

[Musicman1228]

ClubV12,

Are you stating that 'the Testimonies' of EGW are the same thing as the 'Testimony of Jesus Christ' (?) as found in the following verse:

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Rev.12:17.

Before I respond to you I just want to make sure I know what I am dealing with here. Thanks.

[miz3]

It's the straight testimony miz3.

It cannot be the "straight testimony" because it is YOUR TESTIMONY and you are NOT SCRIPTURE!

[ClubV12]

The Testimonie's of Ellen White, Musicman. In particular the 9 volume set by the same name, but feel free to include all of her writings. If you feel that connects in some way to Revelation, OK... She's just another prophet, like any prophet from the bible. Her testimony happens to be for our time, mostly, thats how prophets work you know. Typically, testimony to the people of their time. Notable exceptions being Daniel and Revelation of course.

miz3, your a bully, using christianity as a cover. Many different people have some unusual, to weird, ideas on christianity, but they are for the most part, "civil" about what they believe. I find your version particularly repulsive because you attack people in the name of the Lord, relentlessy. It's NOT righteous indigation, it's just an excuse to put people down.

Seriously, I'm suprised the moderators tolerate such behaviour.

[JawgeFromJawja]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Both of you know very well that the statement "never met anyone who knew the whole truth" is NOT THE STATEMENT I AM TALKING ABOUT!

The statement pkrause should apologize for is the one in which he states that you (Jawge) "knew Jesus better than most people".

That is a statement that is above his pay grade and a judgment that he has no right to make about anyone. Jawge you should not delight in receiving such a statement because when you do you elevate yourself above the rest of us humans and demonstrates a Spiritual superiority that you have no right to claim. You did respond to pkrause's statement that you are better than most other humans "in knowing Jesus Christ" by saying, "thank you pkrause"!

By thus responding you are encouraging the sinful judgment made by pkrause which makes you just as involved in the sin as he is. These are not the actions of people who truly belong to Jesus Christ.

This why I think pkrause and you too Jawge need to apologize not to me alone but to the whole Club Adventist website!

Next time you quote someone please quote the whole thing, not just what you feel is what was said:

miz3 I believe that when George says he has not met anyone that knows all truth, hes not talking about Jesus Christ. I think you know that. I'd say that from the many comments I've read that George knows Jesus Christ better than most of us.

As you can see I mentioned most of us at the very end of that quote! Not "knew Jesus better than most people" Is that correct or not????? That my friend is a observation. The judging that the Bible speaks of his telling someone that they are going to be saved or not, that is judging someone, plain and simple. So there will be no apology since I would have to also apologies to myself as well, would I not????? Because in that observation I'm including myself as not knowing Christ as well as George. So if you really have a problem you can take it up with John.

As God is my witness, I say now that I do not know Jesus better than most people, nor did I ever mean to imply such. This misunderstanding saddens me to the depths of my spirit. I know Jesus only as my Lord and Savior. For me, that is the foundation of "knowing" Jesus, and I have no shame is saying so, and no shame in asserting that Jesus is my Lord and Savior. That assertion certifies and assures my salvation.

Such a spiritually advanced soul as Albert Schweitzer apparently did not know as much about the man Jesus as he would have desired, concluding in his book Quest for the Historical Jesusthat historical records do not verify the historicity of Christ. This old Baptist disagrees with Schweitzer on that: not that historical records verify the historicity of Jesus, but that the life of Jesus can be 100% inferred as factual from the dynamics of history, the letters of the New Testament,and by prophecy throughout both the Old and the New Testaments being fulfilled in, through, and by Jesus' life.

Agape (meaning both my present state of mouth open wonder at

such a statement, and a wish that the love of God be

showered on you. The first meaning is pronounced to

rhyme with "grape", and the second, the oh so inelegant

ugh ahp py.)

Jawge

[Dr. Rich]

By the way Jawge, read Matt. 24:45 and you will see that there is only ONE person who will be teaching ONLY the rest of the servants of Jesus Christ the real truth when Jesus comes like a thief in order to seal them prior to the time of trouble. This ONE person will know the real truth but will be made fun of by most everyone else because it is NOT what most believe it to be. This ONE person is what Jesus told us in Matt. 17 will be like Elijah and will go up against the Adventists to show them that EGW was a false prophet just as was Jezebel was to Israel. Think about this! You might want to read all of Matt. 24.

[Musicman1228]

ClubV12,

So if I am understanding you correctly you are actually saying that when Jesus said this verse:

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Rev. 12:17

. . . that Jesus meant that the 'testimony of Jesus' is actually or includes 'The Testimonies of Ellen G. White'.

Oh my. I am truly stunned, and am at a complete loss for words. For some reason I still don't believe that you mean this, and have somehow misunderstood my question. Please assure me that this is the case. Please, one more time:

Do you believe that the Testimonies of EGW are the actual 'Testimony of Jesus Christ' Himself?

Please say a simple yes or no, and we can go on from there.

[miz3]

As God is my witness, I say now that I do not know Jesus better than most people, nor did I ever mean to imply such. This misunderstanding saddens me to the depths of my spirit. I know Jesus only as my Lord and Savior. For me, that is the foundation of "knowing" Jesus, and I have no shame is saying so, and no shame in asserting that Jesus is my Lord and Savior. That assertion certifies and assures my salvation.

Thank you Jawge for your excellent statement. We should never ever compare ourselves to others or others to ourselves to determine who is further along in knowing Jesus Christ.

One thing I do know and can state without hesitation that I am like you all in that I do NOT KNOW JESUS CHRIST nearly to the extent that I would like. I think WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO! Thank God that He is a patient teacher!

However, like Paul "I an pressing to the mark of God's high calling!" Like you Jawge I depend on Jesus Christ for the surety of my Salvation as well and I too have no shame in Jesus Christ! For Jesus Christ has saved me from the incalculable depths of sin!

I thank you again for your most excellent statement and I thank you for letting me share with you rejoicing in both our Salvation which came as you stated from Jesus Christ and not from our own selves!

[ClubV12]

Musicman, Do you believe that the Testimonies of Paul or Moses are the actual 'Testimony of Jesus Christ' Himself? Ellen White is no different than any other prophet, but I've already said that. Is my statement not plain enough for you to understand?

[JawgeFromJawja]

By the way Jawge, read Matt. 24:45 and you will see that there is only ONE person who will be teaching ONLY the rest of the servants of Jesus Christ the real truth when Jesus comes like a thief in order to seal them prior to the time of trouble. This ONE person will know the real truth but will be made fun of by most everyone else because it is NOT what most believe it to be. This ONE person is what Jesus told us in Matt. 17 will be like Elijah and will go up against the Adventists to show them that EGW was a false prophet just as was Jezebel was to Israel. Think about this! You might want to read all of Matt. 24.

Dr. Rich, neither Matt 24: 45 nor the rest of the chapter mentions Elijah. In fact, v 45 may be speaking of God's teachers in general, i.e., more than one person.

I have probably read Matt 24 at least 50 times. I just re-read it entirely, both in the KJ and NIV versions. Most people who "read" it do not as it were READ it.

Thus,

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Then see John's 1st epistle:

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

And discern the time of the tribulation of God's children from Revelation itself:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

All too many who expound on "shortly" try to stretch the time indefinitely, or at least 2000 years. Shortly means shortly

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

At hand means close, not some vague time far in the future.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John himself participated in the tribulation of Revelation.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

"Quickly" in Elizabethan English usually meant soon.

The NIV translates V 20 as "Yes, I am coming soon".

Among other "heresies" held by JawgeFromJawja is the doctrine of preterism, which is a firm New Testament doctrine.

I have probably read the entire book of Revelation at least 50 times. My wife and I read it through during a 2 hour driving trip. She did the driving, I read aloud - this was from the NIV.

JawgeFromJawja

[Dr. Rich]

Sorry I stuck my neck out for you, as I attempted to show you real truth but you shun the one who you ask for. People like you are a dime a dozen, asking for truth, but not really wanting to be shown the truth. It appears to me that you are set in your ways and refuse to take your dark glasses off and put the eye salve on in order to see the real truth.

In Matthew 17 Jesus said that there is another Elijah type to come and that this ONE person will 'restore' all things. Problem is as you are now showing us, not many will recognize him as they also failed to recognize John the Baptist. This ONE person is the one found in Matt. 24:45 who will be feeding His fellow servants the food (truth) that gets restored.

The 'apointed time' of the end was just that and you and I can't change it.

The generation that will see the end and all of the signs is the last generation, as that is the only group where the 144,000 come from because they must be alive when the time of trouble starts. As you wrote, (Rev. 1:1) the only ones that the understanding of Revelation is for is the bond servants living in the last generation.

The disciple John didn't understand much (if anything) that he wrote down and he didn't have to understand it because it was not for him to understand. Same goes for Daniel.

[JawgeFromJawja]

Sorry I stuck my neck out for you, as I attempted to show you real truth but you shun the one who you ask for. People like you are a dime a dozen, asking for truth, but not really wanting to be shown the truth. It appears to me that you are set in your ways and refuse to take your dark glasses off and put the eye salve on in order to see the real truth.

In Matthew 17 Jesus said that there is another Elijah type to come and that this ONE person will 'restore' all things. Problem is as you are now showing us, not many will recognize him as they also failed to recognize John the Baptist. This ONE person is the one found in Matt. 24:45 who will be feeding His fellow servants the food (truth) that gets restored.

The 'apointed time' of the end was just that and you and I can't change it.

The generation that will see the end and all of the signs is the last generation, as that is the only group where the 144,000 come from because they must be alive when the time of trouble starts. As you wrote, (Rev. 1:1) the only ones that the understanding of Revelation is for is the bond servants living in the last generation.

The disciple John didn't understand much (if anything) that he wrote down and he didn't have to understand it because it was not for him to understand. Same goes for Daniel.

You seem to be rather testy, Dr. R. Many of us on the forum disagree with each other, but do not get really testy from the disagreements alone.

Set in my ways? Please grant me that privilege. After all, I am 73 years old. However, this ole boy can and does change his mind when compelling evidence evidence is presented.

Jesus did not say Elijah "type". He sad Elijah, period. Gracious! Don't just read. READ! And don't add words that are not in a passage.

Okay, my final heresy, a heresy that is Biblical, was believed in generally by the early Church fathers until Constantine declared it heresy; and which continued in the Church although suppressed, showing itself among the medieval Cathars: I believe in reincarnation. Constantine suppressed the belief for political reasons.

The loud collective gasp I just sensed is not bothersome to me. After all, that belief cannot be Biblically shown to effect salvation. The belief cannot be all wrong if suppressed by Constantine and denied by the modern Catholic Church.

Agape (this time, the agape pronounced uh py - an awful

sounding word with a beautiful meaning.)

JawgeFromJawja

[Dr. Rich]

Ok Jawge, I will ignore your posts from now on if that is what you wish.

[miz3]

JawgefromJawga,

I to am willing to learn new things since I don't know it all.

Could you please cite the Biblical support for your belief in "reincarnation".

Jesus Christ was "incarnated" but I am assuming you are not talking about that "incarnation" but the "incarnation" that happens after the death of a human.

[John317]

...my final heresy, a heresy that is Biblical, was believed in generally by the early Church fathers until Constantine declared it heresy; and which continued in the Church although suppressed, showing itself among the medieval Cathars: I believe in reincarnation. Constantine suppressed the belief for political reasons.

Origen believed in reincarnation, or rather in the preexistence of souls, but it isn't true that it was a commonly held belief among the early Church Fathers.

Some who believed in reimbodiment were the Gnostic sects, such as the Valentinians, Ophites and Ebionites. But it would be incorrect to say that their belief meant that reincarnation was a common idea among the early Christian Church.

Justin Martyr & St. Clement of Alexandria evidently believed in the pre-existence of souls. Synesius, Bishop of Ptolemais, also taught the concept,

Jerome (AD 340-420), translator of the Latin version of the Bible known as the Vulgate, in his Letter to Demetrias (a Roman matron), states that some Christian sects in his day taught a form of reincarnation as an esoteric doctrine, imparting it to a few "as a traditional truth which was not to be divulged."

This statement by Jerome shows that it wasn't widely accepted in the early church.

Are you saying that you're convinced that Christ believed in and taught reincarnation?

[phkrause]

Origen believed in reincarnation, or rather in the preexistence of souls, but it isn't true that it was a commonly held belief among the early Church Fathers.

Some who believed in reimbodiment were the Gnostic sects, such as the Valentinians, Ophites and Ebionites. But it would be incorrect to say that their belief meant that reincarnation was a common idea among the early Christian Church.

Justin Martyr, St. Clement of Alexandria, evidently believed in the pre-existence of souls. Synesius, Bishop of Ptolemais, also taught the concept,

Jerome (AD 340-420), translator of the Latin version of the Bible known as the Vulgate, in his Letter to Demetrias (a Roman matron), states that some Christian sects in his day taught a form of reincarnation as an esoteric doctrine, imparting it to a few "as a traditional truth which was not to be divulged." This statement by Jerome shows that it wasn't widely accepted by the early church.

Are you saying that you're convinced that Christ believed in and taught reincarnation?

I'm in 100% agreement with John on reincarnation. From my reading the Bible I don't see that theme at all George.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: JawgeFromJawja

...my final heresy, a heresy that is Biblical, was believed in generally by the early Church fathers until Constantine declared it heresy; and which continued in the Church although suppressed, showing itself among the medieval Cathars: I believe in reincarnation. Constantine suppressed the belief for political reasons.

Origen believed in reincarnation, or rather in the preexistence of souls, but it isn't true that it was a commonly held belief among the early Church Fathers.

Some who believed in reimbodiment were the Gnostic sects, such as the Valentinians, Ophites and Ebionites. But it would be incorrect to say that their belief meant that reincarnation was a common idea among the early Christian Church.

Justin Martyr & St. Clement of Alexandria evidently believed in the pre-existence of souls. Synesius, Bishop of Ptolemais, also taught the concept,

Jerome (AD 340-420), translator of the Latin version of the Bible known as the Vulgate, in his Letter to Demetrias (a Roman matron), states that some Christian sects in his day taught a form of reincarnation as an esoteric doctrine, imparting it to a few "as a traditional truth which was not to be divulged."

This statement by Jerome shows that it wasn't widely accepted in the early church.

Are you saying that you're convinced that Christ believed in and taught reincarnation?

John,

This is why we need to keep you around and need to keep you well fed and healthy. Great Job. I'll go one step further and say that the concept of reincarnation is blaspheme, and just one step farther along than the soul going directly to be with God when the body dies (as taught by you-know-who). Very Gnositc.

[miz3]

I would like Jawge to make good his claim that he can demonstrate from the Bible a "Doctrine of Reincarnation" for humans. (We are excluding what happened to Jesus Christ). Oh, and we are also excluding any changes in humanity at or after the Second Coming. In the second case we know that is a reincarnation that is Biblical!

[John317]

Thanks very much, Musicman. I appreciate that. :-)

Speaking of healthy, I do hope and pray you are keeping healthy yourself, MM.

[JawgeFromJawja]

John,

This is why we need to keep you around and need to keep you well fed and healthy. Great Job. I'll go one step further and say that the concept of reincarnation is blaspheme, and just one step farther along than the soul going directly to be with God when the body dies (as taught by you-know-who). Very Gnositc.

Musicman, don't be so blithe to label someone who does not hold your exact theology as blasphemous. As you know, other denominations than SDAs accept the concept of immortality of the spirit, with immediate survival after death. And there are a substantial minority of us Christians who do accept reincarnation. There is one compelling doctrine that takes precedence over such trivia as our concept of the state of the dead, that being the doctrine of faith in God to assure salvation, the mechanism for that being the sacrificial death of Jesus. Anything else is fluff, stuff, and nonsense. I am speaking of my Baptist denomination, the Roman Catholic Church, SDAs, and all Christians, so don't get your feathers ruffled. That is not my intention.

But feathers do get ruffled, mine included. I feel that one value of Club Adventist is to learn to be exposed to other beliefs without having negative emotions surface.

A carte blance labeling of the doctrines of others as blasthemous is one of many regrettable characteristic of the creaky old medieval institution that is so much impugned by Protestants.

JawgeFromJawja

[Dr. Rich]

So Jawge, since I sincerely believe that ALL people who call themselves a Christian who believe and follow the words of Paul and believe that the whole bible is the words of God, ARE practicing blasphemy, does that ruffle your feathers too?

[miz3]

Dr. Rich you and musicman1228 believe that God is not the ruler of anything in this world. You believe that satan rules and God is limited in what He can do.

Here is an eyewitness text for you that says different.

"Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”"

Matthew 19:26.

I think that means God can and does anything God please anywhere and anytime God pleases. NO LIMITS ON GOD!

[JawgeFromJawja]

I would like Jawge to make good his claim that he can demonstrate from the Bible a "Doctrine of Reincarnation" for humans. (We are excluding what happened to Jesus Christ). Oh, and we are also excluding any changes in humanity at or after the Second Coming. In the second case we know that is a reincarnation that is Biblical!

Gladly, Miz3. You are already familiar with at least two Biblical events that directly teach reincarnation.

The first is the story of the blind man of John Chapter 9. Read it again for the first time. This is from KJV:

Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Joh 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

Joh 9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

The man was already blind at birth. With the question who sinned, causing the blindness, the disciples implied that if the blind man had sinned, then it either happened in the womb, which is an absurdity, or in a previous life. Jesus simply replied that neither the man nor his parents had sinned, but he was blind that God might be glorified. Obviously, the disciples believed that it was possible to sin prior to the present life. Jesus’ failure to rebuke his apostles about possibility of the blind man’s sinning in another life shows that the issue was known in that culture, and that Jesus accepted the possibility of the blind man’s previous existence.

The second event you already know are passages concerning John the Baptist:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

This is one of the many messianic prophecies of the Old Testament. One of the signs that the true Messiah has come, according to this passage from Malachi, is that he be preceded by a forerunner who would be Elijah. Not some like Elijah, but Elijah himself.

Mat 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Mat 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

Mat 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah, not someone like Elijah.

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Mat 17:7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Mat 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

This verse in Mark strongly reinforces the fact that John the Baptist was Elijah himself

Point 1. The Old Testament prophesied that Elijah himself, not someone "like" him or someone "similar" to him, would return before the advent of the Messiah.

Point 2. Jesus declared that John the Baptist was Elijah who had returned, stating bluntly "Elijah has come".

Based on these passages, conclusion (A) or conclusion ( must be true:

(A) John the Baptist was Elijah himself, meaning that Elijah had reincarnated.

( John the Baptist was not Elijah himself, meaning that Elijah himself had not returned.

If this is so, then either:

(1) The Old Testament prophecy about Elijah returning before the Messiah failed to come to pass (meaning that Biblical prophecy is fallible), OR

(2) Jesus was not the Messiah, because Elijah himself did not return, and

(3) The prophecies of the Bible are unreliable.

Personally, I think all three statements are false, because of the prophecy in Malachi 4 and the statement of Jesus that Elijah was John the Baptist. Jesus did not qualify that statement in any way.

There are more Old Testament and New Testament Passages compatible with the teaching of reincarnation. But this post is already rather long.

Ugh ahppy

JawgeFromJawja

[miz3]

Thank you Jawge.

I found your post very interesting.