miz3 Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Dr. Rich, I believe John 17:3 states: This is life eternal that they know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He sent! This text from an eyewitness says nothing about words giving us Salvation (Eternal Life). It says nothing about keeping the Commandments giving us Salvation. It says only that God and Jesus Christ saved us and give us eternal life. Thus, eternal life (Salvation) is a gift of God. Salvation is not words or commandments it is the gift of Themselves (God and Jesus Christ)that is our Salvation. To KNOW THEM (be intimate with) is what saves you. Matthew chapter seven (another eye witness) tells us those who will be lost are not lost because they did not read the words or did or didn't keep the commandments. They are lost because God and Jesus Christ do not know them! Acts 4:12 There is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved. I believe that name is Jesus Christ! Two eyewitnesses and Luke are witnesses that I am correct and that you Dr. Rich are once again wrong! In the cases of John 17 and Matthew 7 I cited the perfect testimony of Jesus Christ! Thus, an unimpeachable witness! Quote
miz3 Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Jesus Christ is the Truth! It is not the mere writing on the page that is truth! It is the very God and the very Jesus Christ that is the Truth! Do they use words to convey Themselves? YES! However, it is not the words themselves that are truth or are Salvation! The Truth is the God and Jesus Christ! It is God and Jesus Christ that sets us Free because They are the Truth. Even if God and Jesus Christ were silent They would still be the Truth! You are not correct because you are confusing the vehicle of communication with the actual Entity of Truth! Besides Jesus said Himself: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. Notice Jesus didn't say His Words are the Way, or His Words are the Truth, or His Words are the Life. Jesus said that He (His Person) was the Life! Quote
LifeHiscost Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Notice Jesus didn't say His Words are the Way, or His Words are the Truth, or His Words are the Life. Jesus said that He (His Person) was the Life! "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 TNIV And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."John 1:13 NASB "Man shall not live and be upheld and sustained by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God."Mattew 4:4 AMP God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
miz3 Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Quote: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 TNIV And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."John 1:13 NASB "Man shall not live and be upheld and sustained by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God."Mattew 4:4 AMP The texts you quoted are not talking about "words" on a page. The texts are talking about Jesus Christ the person. It is the person of Jesus Christ that is the Word. Thus, it is stating that Jesus Christ is the Source. Again you are saved by the Person of Jesus Christ not the "words" printed on a page. If you want to say you are saved by the Word (the person Jesus Christ) that is OK! However, you are never ever saved by any words on any page regardless of what that page consists of! The printed words in the Bible are not what saves you. Jesus Christ, the Word, is the only entity that Saves you! The words spoken, written, etc are just vehicles to convey the message of who Jesus Christ (the Word) is. The vehicle that conveys the message is completely different from the Message itself! This is why we use lower case "w" for the vehicle and upper case "w" for the real One. There is a huge difference between the two "w's"! The vehicle of conveyance is not what saves you. It is Jesus Christ alone that saves you! Quote
Dr. Rich Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Yes, lets not take anything away from what Jesus did by dying as He purchased a Kingdom AND Priests with His blood as found in Rev. 5:9-10. But Jesus did more than just die, because He told us the real reason He was born of a human and that was to testify to the words of God the Father. Rev. 19:11-13 show that the name of Jesus is the WORD(s) of the Father God. It is by obeying God that one becomes saved, and not by anything else! Quote
miz3 Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Yes, lets not take anything away from what Jesus did by dying as He purchased a Kingdom AND Priests with His blood as found in Rev. 5:9-10. But Jesus did more than just die, because He told us the real reason He was born of a human and that was to testify to the words of God the Father. Rev. 19:11-13 show that the name of Jesus is the WORD(s) of the Father God. It is by obeying God that one becomes saved, and not by anything else! 1. Jesus Christ did not purchase the Kingdom because as He told Pilot at His "trial" that His Kingdom was already existent! 2. Jesus Christ did however purchase humans who were/are slaves to sin. You might check out John 3:16 for this FACT! 3. You are not saved by obeying God. As I have shown you in other threads that is impossible for the human to do because of our "sinful nature". Matthew chapter seven states this Principle! The ONLY WAY FOR US TO OBEY is to have our "nature" changed. John chapter three and Paul in Romans state that God will give us a new "nature" it is called "Spiritual Nature". This "Spiritual Nature" will make us like the "Good Trees" of Matthew chapter seven. 4. John 3 also states that we are SAVED BY JESUS CHRIST'S DEATH ON THE CROSS! Nothing else! 5. Jesus Christ's death made us "righteous before God" which we call "JUSTIFICATION". This is a finished work! Nothing more needs to be done. As John three verse sixteen states those who do NOT REJECT Jesus Christ's finished work on the Cross will be SAVED! John chapter three also states that those who DO REJECT Jesus Christ's finished work on the Cross will remain CONDEMNED! 6. For all you "legalists" out there who are so petrified about the LAW we have something else for you. OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW comes as the Holy Spirit changes your "sinful nature" into a "Spiritual Nature". When have a full complete "Spiritual Nature" then we will be like Jesus Christ (character reproduced in us----for EGW types) who was The Good Tree of Matthew chapter seven. This also fulfills Matthew 5:48! We call this part of the process SANCTIFICATION! This is of course NOT A FINISHED WORK. Instead this a work in progress, unless you REJECT THIS WORK also. 7. Once again, we have Jesus Christ, Paul, and the Eyewitnesses all in agreement. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 miz3, have you not read the prophecy in Daniel 2 about the rock cut out w/o hands? That is a BRAND NEW Kingdom that was set up in 1844 and that is the Kingdom that goes to battle against all of the kingdoms (nations) of this world and destroys them forever. Also read what Jesus said about this in Matt. 21. Verse 43 is a prophesy that came true! Now do something different for a change; actually read what Jesus said in Revelation 5:9-10. Quote
miz3 Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 miz3, have you not read the prophecy in Daniel 2 about the rock cut out w/o hands? That is a BRAND NEW Kingdom that was set up in 1844 and that is the Kingdom that goes to battle against all of the kingdoms (nations) of this world and destroys them forever. Also read what Jesus said about this in Matt. 21. Verse 43 is a prophesy that came true! Now do something different for a change; actually read what Jesus said in Revelation 5:9-10. Have you not read: "All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world." Revelation 13:8. Since that Lamb of God was "slain from the creation of the world" then Jesus Christ had the Kingdom from that time. Since then Jesus Christ (God) has been smashing all the other kingdoms (nations)of this world. I think Nebuchadnezzar had it correct when he said: "At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever. His dominion is an eternal dominion; his kingdom endures from generation to generation. 35 All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: “What have you done?" Daniel 4:34-35. Did you get that Dr. Rich, Jesus Christ's Kingdom is an "Eternal Kingdom". That means from Eternity to Eternity! The Kingdom of Heaven has always been and is not some historical human like pinpoint on the calendar. Did you get the part also how Jesus Christ and His Kingdom have been deciding who rules and who does not rule! Now to your text: "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed." Matthew 21:43-44. Notice the context: the Kingdom of Heaven is already in existence. In fact the text states that the Jewish stewards of the Kingdom were bad stewards and that God would find other stewards. No 1844 Kingdom. "And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." Revelation 5:9-10. Since the Kingdom of Heaven has always existed (see my Biblical evidence above) then Jesus Christ has been doing just exactly what Revelation chapter five says since the fall of Adam and Eve! Nothing different here than what I have been constantly asserting! Quote
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