Did Jesus have faith?

[miz3]

musicman1228,

I will answer your post tomorrow! Goodnight!

[Kevin H]

The trinity exists in a righteousness by faith expirence with each other. Faith is what keeps God from becoming a consuming fire to us. If I've lived in heaven for 10,000 million centuries and choose not to follow in the rightousness by faith relationship with God that I had been doing heretoforth, I would find God's pressence and would expirence what the other lost expirenced at the end of the 1,000 years.

[miz3]

The trinity exists in a righteousness by faith expirence with each other. Faith is what keeps God from becoming a consuming fire to us. If I've lived in heaven for 10,000 million centuries and choose not to follow in the rightousness by faith relationship with God that I had been doing heretoforth, I would find God's pressence and would expirence what the other lost expirenced at the end of the 1,000 years.

Do you have Biblical support for what you wrote or is this your own idea?

[miz3]

Is there a spirit that masquerades as the Holy Spirit, that teaches lies as if they are the truth?. If there is not such a spirit then anything and everything that you 'feel' that the Holy Spirit is teaching you would (of course) be completely true. There could be no doubt as to the truth of what you are 'hearing' from this Spirit because there would not be any counterfeit to cause confusion and deception.

However, in point of fact there IS a marauding evil spirit that masquerades as the true Holy Spirit that does lead people astray. This 'spirit' does this through lies and deceit that it gives to it's army of 'wolves in sheeps clothing'. These wolves that look like the sheep that are in the Master's sheep fold and are in that fold with the sheep are false apostles and prophets/prophetesses that teach a trooth that is just close enough to the Truth so as to be almost indistinguishable from it.

Since this is the case then what can you do to tell the difference between the real Holy Spirit and the false one? If all we had was the Spirit we would not be able to tell the difference. Therefore people that put their sole faith or trust in a singular Spirit being the real thing are setting themselves up to be deceived.

That is where the words and teachings of Jesus Christ come in. Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits", and this includes the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Any Spirit that teaches a truth other than that which is confirmed by the words of Jesus Christ is a FALSE holy spirit, and is not to be trusted. That is why it is important to know the teachings that Jesus gave to His own disciples, so when you are confronted with truth that appears to be from God as given by His Spirit you can TEST that Spirit by those words to see if that Spirit is the real deal.

There are NO other words that can be held to that standard of truth other than the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as He gave them to His own eyewitness disciples. To use the words of anyone else in this capacity is asking to be deceived. The ONLY words that are completely trustworthy and true are the words of God.

I agree that there is an "Evil spirit". That is about all you got correct in your post.

You ask what can you do to tell the difference between the SPIRIT OF GOD and the "evil spirit"?

Let us let the eyewitness Scripture answer your question!

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

9 “Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"

Matthew 7:7-11.

There is your answer musicman1228!

Wouldn't you call giving the Holy Spirit a Good Gift?

So if we ask God for the Holy Spirit will God give us an "evil spirit"? NO! NO! NO! God would never do that! God has promised in the above text that if we ask Him for the Holy Spirit He will give us the Holy Spirit!

As verses nine and ten state God will not give us an "evil spirit" if we ask Him for the Holy Spirit!

Based on this eyewitness you are wrong in your assertions. I can tell the difference because the God and the Holy Spirit would never lead me astray!

You however, have never proven to me that the Words of Jesus are in contradiction to the Words of Paul, Luke, Acts, James, Jude. In my study I do not see any contradiction between the Words of Jesus and the rest of the Scripture.

I have however found in you and Dr. Rich the taint of "Anti-Roman Catholic hatred! This "hatred" has led you believe that Paul principally and others are the ground of Roman Catholic existence and theology. As such they are to be discounted.

Of course the Roman Church came out of the Early Christian Church. That is fact! However,

1. Paul cannot be blamed for the corruption that crept into the Church. Even John the Disciple was part of that Early Christian Church which included the Pauline converts. Who do you think John was speaking to in 1,2,3John?

2. Paul's theology is actually in direct opposition to Roman Catholic theology. Paul's theology is a theology of Faith and Grace! The Roman Church theology is a theology of Works, pagan philosophy, and rituals. The two theologies are totally different.

In addition I have demonstrated to you and Dr. Rich how Paul and the exact Words of Jesus Christ are in total harmony. I will give you an example I have already shared with you.

Matthew chapter seven and the "Tree Principle" is the exact same Principle that Paul teaches in regard to the "sinful nature" and the Spiritual Nature! There is absolutely no difference in the two Gospels on this point! The same is true for the rest of the Gospel!

I am afraid my dear friend that you and Dr. Rich do err greatly. You can't even hold up your own theology from the eyewitnesses as I have already shown you on repeated occasions. Since the eyewitness actually bear witness against you and your theology how than can you lecture me as to Paul and/or the Holy Spirit!

We have seen your "Fruit" and it does not match the Fruit of the Eyewitnesses let alone the rest of the Bible. Dr. Rich could not even read simple passages from Daniel in regard to "church and state" matters on another thread and had to admit that I was indeed correct and he was wrong!

I think this demonstrates a great deal about your inability to lecture me and your inability to define terms correctly within a Bible context!

[Dr. Rich]

Miz3, while I see how you could take it that I admitted I was wrong, I was doing that in sarcasm.

What you wrote above would make sense IF there was only one God. But Satan does exist and people who refuse to obey God's words and all of the commandments can't have God the creator be their God, so Satan jumps in and takes the place--and yes, there is a good side of evil.

You have lots to learn Miz3, and you are doing a good job. I too have lots to learn, but I have already been in your shoes and found that Satan has deceived everyone who calls themself a Christian into believing they are saved by grace and become righteous by faith. How sad!

[miz3]

What you wrote above would make sense IF there was only one God.

The True fact is there is only ONE GOD!

1. Satan is not a god! He would like us to think so. But the fact is he is NOT!

2. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."

Deuteronomy 6:4.

Again Dr. Rich you do err as to the Scripture! DIRECT QUOTE FROM GOD HIMSELF! It states that He is One!

3. Therefore since "God is one" (meaning no other god actually exists) then I guess according to Scripture you are wrong and in fact "my words do make sense"! I responded with Scripture!

4. If sarcasm is your only response then that also demonstrates the total zeroness of your position.

[Dr. Rich]

Ex. 20:3: "Thou shall have no other gods before Me."

Well duh miz3, just what were these other 'gods'?

There is only ONE real God, and that is the Creator God Almighty. But there does exist other gods, them being Satan and his demons.

[miz3]

Ex. 20:3: "Thou shall have no other gods before Me."

Well duh miz3, just what were these other 'gods'?

There is only ONE real God, and that is the Creator God Almighty. But there does exist other gods, them being Satan and his demons.

This of course is a predictable response!

1. Satan and his demons would like people to think they are gods but they are not. They indeed have fooled a lot of people into thinking they are gods. Thus, Exodus 20:3 says not to put these "god wannabes" before the ONE AND ONLY GOD! In other words saying something is a god does not make them a god.

2. Let me quote the Word of God again:

"A voice says, “Cry out.”

And I said, “What shall I cry?”

“All men are like grass,

and all their glory is like the flowers of the field.

7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,

because the breath of the LORD blows on them.

Surely the people are grass.

8 The grass withers and the flowers fall,

but the word of our God stands forever.”

9 You who bring good tidings to Zion,

go up on a high mountain.

You who bring good tidings to Jerusalem,[c]

lift up your voice with a shout,

lift it up, do not be afraid;

say to the towns of Judah,

“Here is your God!”

10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,

and his arm rules for him.

See, his reward is with him,

and his recompense accompanies him.

11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:

He gathers the lambs in his arms

and carries them close to his heart;

he gently leads those that have young.

12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,

or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?

Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket,

or weighed the mountains on the scales

and the hills in a balance?

13 Who has understood the mind[d] of the LORD,

or instructed him as his counselor?

14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him,

and who taught him the right way?

Who was it that taught him knowledge

or showed him the path of understanding?

15 Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket;

they are regarded as dust on the scales;

he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust.

16 Lebanon is not sufficient for altar fires,

nor its animals enough for burnt offerings.

17 Before him all the nations are as nothing;

they are regarded by him as worthless

and less than nothing.

18 To whom, then, will you compare God?

What image will you compare him to?

19 As for an idol, a craftsman casts it,

and a goldsmith overlays it with gold

and fashions silver chains for it.

20 A man too poor to present such an offering

selects wood that will not rot.

He looks for a skilled craftsman

to set up an idol that will not topple.

21 Do you not know?

Have you not heard?

Has it not been told you from the beginning?

Have you not understood since the earth was founded?

22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,

and its people are like grasshoppers.

He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,

and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

23 He brings princes to naught

and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.

24 No sooner are they planted,

no sooner are they sown,

no sooner do they take root in the ground,

than he blows on them and they wither,

and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.

25 “To whom will you compare me?

Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.

26 Lift your eyes and look to the heavens:

Who created all these?

He who brings out the starry host one by one,

and calls them each by name.

Because of his great power and mighty strength,

not one of them is missing.

27 Why do you say, O Jacob,

and complain, O Israel,

“My way is hidden from the LORD;

my cause is disregarded by my God”?

28 Do you not know?

Have you not heard?

The LORD is the everlasting God,

the Creator of the ends of the earth.

He will not grow tired or weary,

and his understanding no one can fathom.

29 He gives strength to the weary

and increases the power of the weak.

30 Even youths grow tired and weary,

and young men stumble and fall;

31 but those who hope in the LORD

will renew their strength.

They will soar on wings like eagles;

they will run and not grow weary,

they will walk and not be faint."

Isaiah 40:6-31.

Notice there is ONLY ONE GOD!

Everything else is not even close to God. God is the only One in His Class!

Not even the Devil comes close. The SDA Church and other humans everywhere paint a nonBiblical picture that somehow God and the Devil are somehow on equal footing.

You Dr. Rich are promoting this unBiblical lie by your statements. The Devil and his minions all lumped together do not even appear on the same page with the least little scintilla of any part of God.

Even your eyewitnesses have demonstrated the intense fear the demons had of Jesus Christ while on earth mind you. Let alone the God stated here in Isaiah chapter 40.

Why do you demonstrate such ignorance of the Scripture?

[John317]

I agree with your post, miz3, except for the statement about SDAs making it appear that God and Satan are on equal footing. Actually SDAs teach that Satan and all his fallen angels are defeated foes. Yet God does give Satan the ability to fight against the church and against Him. God didn't HAVE to do this, but He does it because He knows it's the best way to resolve questions that have been raised. However, Satan is doomed to be destroyed in the end, along with everyone who sides with him. God is definitely in charge and has already won! Humans just need to decide whose side they're on.

[phkrause]

Ex. 20:3: "Thou shall have no other gods before Me."

Well duh miz3, just what were these other 'gods'?

There is only ONE real God, and that is the Creator God Almighty. But there does exist other gods, them being Satan and his demons.

Yes there is only one true God, the others are only gods because fools call them god, but they are not gods as God is God. Plain and simple. So if you what to call them god that's up to you. And besides there are many other things that people treat as god, like money, material positions, etc. It seems miz3 has a better idea than you do.

[Musicman1228]

Miz3 said, "I think this demonstrates a great deal about your inability to lecture me and your inability to define terms correctly within a Bible context!"

I am so sorry if you got the idea that I was trying to lecture you (or anyone else) into my way of thinking. That was never (and is not) my intent. I am only explaining my understanding as the Holy Spirit has given it to me.

And yes, the Holy Spirit has given me my understanding of the words of Jesus Christ. You will, of course, claim that because what I understand differs from what you understand that it could not be the Holy Spirit that gave me this understanding; it MUST have been Satan. But do you not see that I could make the same claim about you and your understanding? How is it that both of us have different understandings of Truth but claim the same source? Is this possible? You and I both know this is impossible; one or the other of us MUST be wrong. So I will say, "I'm not wrong so it must be Miz3 that is wrong". And you will say, "I'm not wrong so it must be Musicman that is wrong".

If what you say is true (and I have no doubt that you are sincere in your belief) that God will not give an evil spirit if we ask for the Holy Spirit, then how is it that both of us are asking God for the same Holy Spirit but we are each getting a different understanding?

I have a question for you, Miz3. Has the God of Heaven in the form of Jesus Christ the Son of God ever refused to cast out a demon from someone who asked Him to do so? I can recall no time in the ministry of Jesus when this occurred, can you?

Yet. when Paul asked 'God' to remove the demon that was causing him to boast this 'God' told Paul NO, the demon would not be removed.

So to keep me from being too elated by the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan (Stong's 4566 Satan sat-an' of Hebrew origin (7854); Satan, i.e. the devil:--Satan. AKA-demon) to harass me, to keep me from being too elated.   (8) Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.   (9) But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” 2 Cor. 12:7-9.

Paul acknowledged that this 'god' gave him a demon and then would not take it away when asked. This 'god' CANNOT be the God of Creation, because the only reason why the true God would refuse to take a demon from someone is if that person was not praying to Him. The God of Heaven would NEVER use Satan to affect a positive change of behavior in a person that was truly a servant of His. God would NEVER implant a demon into anyone for any purpose, even a righteous one. Since God did not give Paul this demon it is not up to God to remove the demon. And Satan will surely not remove a demon that he places into anyone of his own free will.

This proves that there are two gods in this world; there is the Prince of this world, that is Satan, who IS a 'god' but not the God; There is also Jesus Christ the Son of God, who stated categorically that HE was IN the world but not OF the world (John 18:35-37).

Therefore, it is certain that one of us has been fooled into believing that the spirit that has given us each our own understanding is the Holy Spirit. Yet this is not possible; one of us (or both of us) have been fooled. The difference is, Miz3, that I recognize that I could/can be fooled, and you don't recognize that this is even possible. Based on just this one thing which of us is most susceptible to being deceived; the one who recognizes the possibility, or the one that doesn't?

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Ex. 20:3: "Thou shall have no other gods before Me."

Well duh miz3, just what were these other 'gods'?

There is only ONE real God, and that is the Creator God Almighty. But there does exist other gods, them being Satan and his demons.

Yes there is only one true God, the others are only gods because fools call them god, but they are not gods as God is God. Plain and simple. So if you what to call them god that's up to you. And besides there are many other things that people treat as god, like money, material positions, etc. It seems miz3 has a better idea than you do.

PK, God was NOT talking about money, cars or anything like this when He said NOT to have any other gods other than Him! Look, I am well aware that most people have NO CLUE as to who the Nephilim were/are and the "Sons of Anok" the 12 spies saw. When God gave the covenant, the whole world were believing in all of these other gods because Satan usurped Him thousands of years earlier.

The BIG reason why God the creator chose Israel to be a witness to the world, is to have them show the world that there is ONLY ONE true God, that all the rest are imposters.

By the way, just who do you think "Allah" is to the muslims? Is he the same as the ONE true God, the Creator?

This is MY OWN OPINION: All Christians only think they have one God, but truthfully, their god is Satan because they believe in lies [words edited by moderator]! Most Christians believe they are saved by grace and righteousness by faith because of the so called 'new covenant'. Therefore, they refuse to obey ALL of the commandments, making their god the god of deception, Satan.

[phkrause]

PK, God was NOT talking about money, cars or anything like this when He said NOT to have any other gods other than Him! Look, I am well aware that most people have NO CLUE as to who the Nephilim were/are and the "Sons of Anok" the 12 spies saw. When God gave the covenant, the whole world were believing in all of these other gods because Satan usurped Him thousands of years earlier.

The BIG reason why God the creator chose Israel to be a witness to the world, is to have them show the world that there is ONLY ONE true God, that all the rest are imposters.

By the way, just who do you think "Allah" is to the muslims? Is he the same as the ONE true God, the Creator?

This is MY OWN OPINION: All Christians only think they have one God, but truthfully, their god is Satan because they believe in lies from Paul and EGW! Most Christians believe they are saved by grace and righteousness by faith because of the so called 'new covenant'. Therefore, they refuse to obey ALL of the commandments, making their god the god of deception, Satan.

I'm than guessing that you don't believe that the moral law was already in existence before Adam was created?

[miz3]

Paul acknowledged that this 'god' gave him a demon and then would not take it away when asked. This 'god' CANNOT be the God of Creation, because the only reason why the true God would refuse to take a demon from someone is if that person was not praying to Him. The God of Heaven would NEVER use Satan to affect a positive change of behavior in a person that was truly a servant of His. God would NEVER implant a demon into anyone for any purpose, even a righteous one. Since God did not give Paul this demon it is not up to God to remove the demon. And Satan will surely not remove a demon that he places into anyone of his own free will.

1. Jesus Christ did not heal all the "demon possessed" of his day anymore than Jesus Christ did not heal all the lame, the blind, the dead, etc. In other words Jesus Christ healed many held captive by satan but He did not heal everyone. The pool of Bethesda is a great example of this. Of all the sick there was only ONE person who was actually healed.

2. Let us look at your 2Corinthians text:

"To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

2Corinthians 12:7-10.

Satan or one of his minions was indeed sent NOT TO POSSESS PAUL! THE BIBLE DOES SAY THE DEMON POSSESSED PAUL! The Bible states that Paul was to be tormented. The Bible is silent as to what that torment actually was.

This sounds a lot like Satan being sent to Job. You remember him. God sent Satan to Job not to possess Job but to torment Job. Why? Read the story of Job and you will see that God ENGINEERED THE WHOLE THING so that God would get all the Glory! The same is true in the case of Paul. God was about getting His Glory and actually helped Paul to not seek his own glory even though God like he did with Job had blessed Paul with surpassing wisdom, knowledge, and understanding. The stories of Job and Paul have this in similarity, God sent them Satan and/or demons to torment them!

In both cases God's GRACE WAS SUFFICIENT FOR JOB AND PAUL!

In fact you find Paul delighting and boasting about his weakness because it was for Christ and His Glory that such weakness was made because instead of Paul being elevated God was elevated. As Paul states in the last verse of this text that his weakness is actually a STRENGTH! It is God's STRENGTH!

I want to emphasize most strongly that this text does NOT say, that Paul was POSSESSED BY A DEMON!

In fact the text in verse nine states the opposite. That Paul was POSSESSED BY GOD!

Therefore once again you are wrong in your assessment of Bible Scripture! You must read more carefully my friend.

[miz3]

Dr. Rich and musicman1228

Here is a REAL example of God sending someone and evil spirit, satan, and/or demon.

"Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him."

1Samuel 16:14.

Notice the overtness of the statement. There is no such overt statement about Paul.

Two, God sent the evil spirit and/or satan and/or demon!

From the context this means possession! The Pauline context does means NO POSSESSION!

[John317]

And yes, the Holy Spirit has given me my understanding of the words of Jesus Christ.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit also gave you your understanding of Acts 5, which is that the "tongue" was from Satan and the the devil tricked Peter and the other disciples into believing he was the Holy Spirit?

[miz3]

Where is the Biblical evidence that Peter and the other Disciples were tricked by Satan in Acts chapter five?

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

And yes, the Holy Spirit has given me my understanding of the words of Jesus Christ.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit also gave you your understanding of Acts 5, which is that the "tongue" was from Satan and the the devil tricked Peter and the other disciples into believing he was the Holy Spirit?

Yes, John, I do. And yes, John, I do.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: musicman1228

Paul acknowledged that this 'god' gave him a demon and then would not take it away when asked. This 'god' CANNOT be the God of Creation, because the only reason why the true God would refuse to take a demon from someone is if that person was not praying to Him. The God of Heaven would NEVER use Satan to affect a positive change of behavior in a person that was truly a servant of His. God would NEVER implant a demon into anyone for any purpose, even a righteous one. Since God did not give Paul this demon it is not up to God to remove the demon. And Satan will surely not remove a demon that he places into anyone of his own free will.

1. Jesus Christ did not heal all the "demon possessed" of his day anymore than Jesus Christ did not heal all the lame, the blind, the dead, etc. In other words Jesus Christ healed many held captive by satan but He did not heal everyone. The pool of Bethesda is a great example of this. Of all the sick there was only ONE person who was actually healed.

I never said He did heal EVERYONE that had a demon. I said He healed everyone every time He was ASKED.

2. Let us look at your 2Corinthians text:

"To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

2Corinthians 12:7-10.

Satan or one of his minions was indeed sent NOT TO POSSESS PAUL! THE BIBLE DOES SAY THE DEMON POSSESSED PAUL! The Bible states that Paul was to be tormented. The Bible is silent as to what that torment actually was.

I'm glad you agree that it was an actual DEMON that was inside Paul. It was this demon that was the torment. I also never said Paul was possessed.

This sounds a lot like Satan being sent to Job. You remember him. God sent Satan to Job not to possess Job but to torment Job. Why? Read the story of Job and you will see that God ENGINEERED THE WHOLE THING so that God would get all the Glory! The same is true in the case of Paul. God was about getting His Glory and actually helped Paul to not seek his own glory even though God like he did with Job had blessed Paul with surpassing wisdom, knowledge, and understanding. The stories of Job and Paul have this in similarity, God sent them Satan and/or demons to torment them!

In both cases God's GRACE WAS SUFFICIENT FOR JOB AND PAUL!

God DID NOT send Satan to attack Job. All God did was allow Satan access to Job. This does not mean that God used Satan to go against Job anymore than God sent a demon to attack Paul. God does not use Satan to promote the Kingdom of Heaven anymore than Satan uses God to build up the kingdom of the world. God engineered NOTHING in the demon being in Paul, neither did God use Satan to attack Job. You cannot show me a single instance in the ministry of Jesus Christ where this kind of thing would have occurred. The reason why grace was sufficient for Paul was that Satan wanted to keep the demon in him, to keep Paul under control.

In fact you find Paul delighting and boasting about his weakness because it was for Christ and His Glory that such weakness was made because instead of Paul being elevated God was elevated. As Paul states in the last verse of this text that his weakness is actually a STRENGTH! It is God's STRENGTH!

Can you find anywhere in the testimony of Jesus where He told His disciples that He wanted them to become weaker so He could become stronger? Jesus Christ is God, He has no need to suck power out of His servants so He can become stronger than He already is. However, this is something that Satan would try.

I want to emphasize most strongly that this text does NOT say, that Paul was POSSESSED BY A DEMON!

In fact the text in verse nine states the opposite. That Paul was POSSESSED BY GOD!

This is out and out blaspheme, because God has never and would never use a demon sent from Satan to accomplish ANYTHING for God. Please repent from this statement or you will be held accountable. Listen to what Jesus said about this:

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, y“It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”  (25) zKnowing their thoughts, ahe said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand.  (26) And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?  (27) And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, bby whom do cyour sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.  (28) But if it is dby the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then ethe kingdom of God has come upon you. Matt. 12:24-28.

Therefore once again you are wrong in your assessment of Bible Scripture! You must read more carefully my friend.

No, actually it is you that should reassess your reading and understanding of Scripture.

[John317]

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit also gave you your understanding of Acts 5, which is that the "tongue" was from Satan and the the devil tricked Peter and the other disciples into believing he was the Holy Spirit?

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Yes, John, I do.

I find it amazing that anyone could be so deceived. It is frightening. What is really astounding is that such a belief is based on something absolutely false and without a shred of valid evidence. If it wasn't such a serious matter, having to do with people's salvation, it would be hysterically funny. As it is, it's tragic.

[John317]

If what you say is true (and I have no doubt that you are sincere in your belief) that God will not give an evil spirit if we ask for the Holy Spirit, then how is it that both of us are asking God for the same Holy Spirit but we are each getting a different understanding?

This is an easy question to answer: God doesn't overrule people's wills. If a person is not willing to change his view and is not really listening and obeying the Holy Spirit, God is not going to compel him to listen.

Christ came as He did to the apostle Paul because He knew Paul's heart and mind and knew that if He showed Saul the truth, Saul would respond positively.

[Sonny]

When Jesus was here on earth He knew exactly who He was, from where He came, and who sent Him. He knew exactly what He came to do, and why He came to do it.

When Christ became a man in the incarnation He had to give up not His divinity, but His divine prerogatives, in other words, the independent use of His divinity. Even His God-consciousness had to be given up. Jesus discovered He was God only by revelation. He was not God-conscious as a baby. He had to grow up in knowledge. He had to grow up in everything because He had given up the independent use of His divinity and was made in all things like unto us (Heb. 2:17).

Therefore, He was totally God-dependent all through His earthly ministry. John 5:30 says, “I can do nothing of myself.” John 6:57 says, “I live by the Father.” See also John 8:28 and John 14:10. All these texts state very clearly that Christ was totally God-dependent.

[Sonny]

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[miz3]

We have it appears only your word that Peter and the other disciples were tricked by satan in Acts chapter five? You have no Biblical evidence to support your view.

I thought this might be the case!

[miz3]

I'm glad you agree that it was an actual DEMON that was inside Paul. It was this demon that was the torment. I also never said Paul was possessed.

The Bible does not say the demon was INSIDE PAUL!

It says it was sent to TORMENT! Thus Paul calls it his weakness.

If the demon was inside Paul then Paul would be POSSESSED!

COME ON!