miz3 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted By: miz3 In other words we sin because we are sinful inside at the root! That will always be true-- that is, that we are sinful inside at the root-- until Jesus comes, right? So then, do we have a choice whether to commit sin or not? Are you saying that I can't help myself when it comes to sinning against God-- that we MUST go on practicing sin? Do we have a choice whether to accept Christ and the Holy Spirit and do what's right? (Granted that the Holy Spirit gives us the desire for God and truth, but we have a choice whether to resist God or accept Him, do we not?) No John317! We do not have to be sinful at the "root" until Jesus Comes! Paul tells us in Romans chapter eight that we can have our "root" changed completely. Thus, we can be "more than conquerors"! According to Romans chapter eight as the Spirit (God) takes more and more control of our root (by putting us into the Vine Jesus Christ) we will more and more produce "good fruit" because God is in the process of transforming us into "good trees" in the here and now! It is a process that proceeds step by step! In this process it will appear to us and others that we are producing some good fruit and some bad fruit. No we still do not choose in this process. Matthew chapter seven is quite clear that the root (what we are) is what determines what we produce! Thus in this process the "good part of our root (controlled by the Spirit, God) produces good fruit and the "bad part of our root (controlled by sin nature) continues to produce bad fruit! That is why Paul (Dr. Rich does not like) states that we are "slaves to whomever is our master"! Since God came in to be our Master the old sinful nature master fights back. That is why there is a War raging in all humans. [Without getting into a discussion off topic: I believe this internal war for being our master is the GREAT CONTROVERSY!] Yes, John317, you cannot help yourself in sinning against God as long as the "sinful nature" is master of that part of your root. By the same token you cannot help obeying God if God is Master of that part of your root. No John you do not have a choice as to who controls your root! 1. The "sinful nature" was made your master without your consent. You did not even have the right to "reject" this master. God decreed it so! That is why you were born a slave to the sinful nature! Psalm 51:5! 2. Because of what Jesus Christ did on the Cross (we are bought with a price text 1Corinthians 6:18-19) God claims ownership of us and He begins to transition us to be under His full control. God has decided to do this process by increments. God also allows the human to "REJECT" Him and throw Him out and remain under the ownership of the sinful nature. John chapter three says that "men loved darkness more than Light! Thus, they REJECTED THE LIGHT! Yes, it is possible to REJECT part of the Light without REJECTING all the Light! 3. This is a process and a war! It is very nasty and very bloody! If it were not for God's Infinite Patience and Forbearance we would have no chance! 4. The Bible also states that until we REJECT or SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT God will continue to Work for the complete cleansing of our root which is when God is our Total Root! Once God has Total Control of our root, at that time we can only do Righteousness because we are Righteous. We then do Righteousness because we are Righteous! Good Trees! This whole thing in Matthew chapter seven is the Fundamental Law of the Universe! We do what we do because of what we are! Quote
miz3 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Here is Ellen White's clear statement, so clear that no one can possibly misunderstand unless they are determined to do so: Quote: It is the special work of Satan in these last days to take possession of the minds of youth, to corrupt their thoughts, and inflame their passions, knowing that by thus doing he can lead them to moral pollution, and then all the noble faculties of the mind will become debased, and he can control them to suit his own purposes. All are free moral agents. And as such they must bring their thoughts to run in the right channel. Their meditations should be of that nature which will elevate their minds, and make Jesus and heaven the subjects of their thoughts. Here is a wide field in which the mind can safely range. If Satan seeks to divert the mind from this to low and sensual things, bring it back again, and place it on eternal things; and when the Lord sees the determined effort made to retain only pure thoughts, he will attract the mind, like the magnet, and purify the thoughts, and enable them to cleanse themselves from every secret sin. “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.” The first work for those who would reform, is to purify the imagination. If the mind is led out in a vicious direction, it must be restrained to dwell only upon pure and elevated subjects. When tempted to yield to a corrupt imagination, then flee to the throne of grace and pray for strength from Heaven. In the strength of God the imagination can be restricted to dwell upon things which are pure and heavenly. {ApM 29.3} Are you saying and demonstrating to us all that Ellen White IS CONTRADICTING HERSELF? Quote
Dr. Rich Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 It's a simple EGW quote, we are what we eat, sums it up. We choose all the time what to eat, when. Spiritual food is no different, we choose when to study and what. From that we become what we are and act accordingly. ...no mystery here. Ok, I guess you can call me a ham sandwich then! What nonsense! What I am hearing is the some one you actually believe that Jesus was joking when He said "Go, and sin no more". That too is nonsense! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 In other words we sin because we are sinful inside at the root! Originally Posted By: John317 That will always be true-- that is, that we are sinful inside at the root-- until Jesus comes, right? Originally Posted By: miz3 No John317! We do not have to be sinful at the "root" until Jesus Comes! Paul tells us in Romans chapter eight that we can have our "root" changed completely. Thus, we can be "more than conquerors"! By "sinful," you evidently don't refer to the sinful, fallen nature. What then exactly is this "root" that that you refer to? And are you saying that people do have a [free moral] choice whether to continue to have the sinful root inside or not? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 ... What I am hearing is the some one you actually believe that Jesus was joking when He said "Go, and sin no more". That too is nonsense! What is also nonsense is to believe Jesus was telling the woman that He expected her never to commit a sin again during the rest of entire life. That is not what he was saying. It is not what the sentence says. Jesus said, "I forgive you. Now go and stop practicing [that is, living in] sin." He was in total agreement with Romans 6: 1, 15 and 1 John 1: 5 to 2: 6; and 1 John 3: 1-10. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 By "sinful," you evidently don't refer to the sinful, fallen nature. What then exactly is this "root" that that you refer to? And are you saying that people do have a [free moral] choice whether to continue to have the sinful root inside or not? 1. The root is what controls what we are which in turn controls what we do! 2. No! People do not have "free moral choice" for anything! It is impossible for humans to choose what kind of root they have or who controls the root! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 It's a simple EGW quote, we are what we eat, sums it up. We choose all the time what to eat, when. Spiritual food is no different, we choose when to study and what. From that we become what we are and act accordingly. ...no mystery here. Ok, I guess you can call me a ham sandwich then! What nonsense! I don't think you're understanding what Club is saying. He is simply saying that we make ourself what we are by our choices. He is, of course, NOT saying we makes ourselves into sandwiches and bananas or fried fish, etc. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I totally object to your opinion, as that is NOT the clear words of Jesus Christ. Do you think Lazarus ever sinned again? Huh? Do you think Lazarus just said 'Thanks' and went back to his old self again? NO! Lazaruz became the closest friend that Jesus probably ever knew and so did the woman who was told to sin no more! Of course she never sinned again! Good grief John317, you act like overcoming sin is impossible. That is/was NEVER what Jesus said or taught. All one has must do is repent and follow the words of Jesus and obey them. Period! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 1. The root is what controls what we are which in turn controls what we do! People do not have "free moral choice" for anything! It is impossible for humans to choose what kind of root they have or who controls the root! Earlier you said: Originally Posted By: miz3 We do not have to be sinful at the "root" until Jesus Comes! Paul tells us in Romans chapter eight that we can have our "root" changed completely. Thus, we can be "more than conquerors"! Do you have a choice as to whether your root will be changed? What begins the process? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 I totally object to your opinion, as that is NOT the clear words of Jesus Christ. Do you think Lazarus ever sinned again? Huh? Do you think Lazarus just said 'Thanks' and went back to his old self again? NO! Lazaruz became the closest friend that Jesus probably ever knew and so did the woman who was told to sin no more! Of course she never sinned again! Good grief John317, you act like overcoming sin is impossible. That is/was NEVER what Jesus said or taught. All one has must do is repent and follow the words of Jesus and obey them. Period! You appear to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about deliberate, willful sinning. There's such a thing as unintentional sins, and sins of ignorance. Nor am I denying that people by God's grace and power may overcome their sins. Have you ever sinned since you repented and began to follow the words of Jesus? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 It is impossible for humans to choose what kind of root they have or who controls the root! So, people are not responsible for their root or for what they do as a result of their root? If another guy comes up to you and beats you in the face, you will know that he's not at fault because he had no choice but to follow the dictates of his evil root? If you wouldn't react this way, please explain why you would hold him responsible for his actions. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich I totally object to your opinion, as that is NOT the clear words of Jesus Christ. Do you think Lazarus ever sinned again? Huh? Do you think Lazarus just said 'Thanks' and went back to his old self again? NO! Lazaruz became the closest friend that Jesus probably ever knew and so did the woman who was told to sin no more! Of course she never sinned again! Good grief John317, you act like overcoming sin is impossible. That is/was NEVER what Jesus said or taught. All one has must do is repent and follow the words of Jesus and obey them. Period! You appear to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about deliberate, willful sinning. There's such a thing as unintentional sins, and sins of ignorance. Nor am I denying that people by God's grace and power may overcome their sins. Have you ever sinned since you repented and began to follow the words of Jesus? Oh really? Please tell us about a sin that is NOT deliberate and willful! I need to learn something new here! Perhaps you are reponding to what Paul said that he never sinned until he learned of the covenant? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 Oh really? Please tell us about a sin that is NOT deliberate and willful! I need to learn something new here! Are all sins willful and deliberate? Perhaps you agree with Woody, who believe that everyone practices deliberate, willful sins. Have you never heard of unintentional sins, sins of ignorance? The Bible speaks of these in the Old Testament. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 Perhaps you are reponding to what Paul said that he never sinned until he learned of the covenant? This is a perfect example of your misunderstanding Paul. He said no such thing as this. You are putting words in Paul's mouth that he never said. It is no wonder you reject Paul. I would reject him too if I really believed he said the things you falsely accuse him of teaching and saying. Please quote and give the reference. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Oh really? Please tell us about a sin that is NOT deliberate and willful! I need to learn something new here! Are all sins willful and deliberate? Perhaps you agree with Woody, who believe that everyone practices deliberate, willful sins. Have you never heard of unintentional sins, sins of ignorance? The Bible speaks of these in the Old Testament. You mean what David did when he took someone's wife for himself? No, I don't know what an unintentioinal sin is. Please explain. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 You mean what David did when he took someone's wife for himself? No, I don't know what an unintentioinal sin is. Please explain. Well, that kind of sin is willful and deliberate. David knew what he was doing was wrong and he could have resisted the temptation, but instead he planned it and went ahead with it. Since you are a lawyer, let me ask you: Are all crimes deliberate, willful, and intentional? (Sins of course are crimes-- committed against the infinite God of heaven and against His Kingedom, instead of against the laws of finite men.) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Do you have a choice as to whether your root will be changed? What begins the process? 1. NO! Remember 1Corinthians 6:18-19. You don't own yourself! 2. GOD! Quote
skyblue888 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 In 1903 she wrote, "God has permitted the present crisis to come to open the eyes of those who desire to know the truth. He would have His people understand to what lengths the sophistry and devising of the enemy would lead... Few can see the meaning of the present apostasy. But the Lord has lifted the curtain, and has shown me its meaning, and the results that it will have if allowed to continue." A Solemn Warning, Oct.1, 1903. John, I came across that statement at the last minute and could not verify the context and decided to use it anyway. I hesitated using it and came very close to leaving it for the time being until I could be sure of its context. I usually make sure about the context. As far as I can remember this is the first time it happens. I stand corrected. However given the fact that in 1903 the leaders in General Conference annihilated the reformatory steps of the 1901 constitution as given by the Lord Himself at that Conference, it is not unreasonable for one to read that statement above and apply it to the 1903 apostasy for at that conference the self-confident management of men resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. John, you jumped on that statement as if to catch me red handed. But it is interesting that you made no comment upon the rest of the post! "But the heart of the work, the great center, has been enfeebled by the mismanagement of men who have not kept pace with their Leader. Satan has diverted their money and their capabilities into wrong channels. Their precious time has been passing into eternity. The whole body is sick because of of mismanagement and miscalculation. The people to whom God has entrusted eternal interests, the depositories of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole world, have lost their bearings. Has God made a mistake?" T.M.397. This is what I have been saying for many years. As a people we have lost our spiritual bearings and yet we make every effort to give the appearance that things are as they should be and those who are lured into the church through our evangelistic campaigns, decade after decade, year after year, remain totally unaware of the fact that "Our position in the world is not what it should be." E.G. White, Testimonies, Vol.8,247, April 21, 1903. Club, you keep asking the same question as to what is to be done. This has already been answered. There is nothing we can do except what the Lord said in 1901: "Let me tell you, if your heart is in the work, and you have faith in God, you need not depend upon the sanction of any minister or any people; if you go right to work in the name of the Lord, in a humble way doing what you can do to teach the truth, God will vindicate you." This last satement was made by Mrs. White at the 1901 General Conference. It is found on page 26 of the Bulletin. "The brethren assented to the light God had given; but there were those connected with our institutions, especially with the Review and Herald office and the Conference, who brought in elements of unbelief, so that the light that was given was not acted upon. It was assented to, but no special change was made to bring about such a conditon of things that the power of God could be revealed among His people... "Year after year the same acknowledgement was made, but the principles which exalt a people were not woven into the work. God gave them clear light as to what they should do and what they should not do, but they departed from the light." E.G. White, 1901 General Conferece Bulletin, p.23. Six years later she would write, "The self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." T.M.481 (1907) sky And what about this post: There are some here who claim to believe all of the Testimonies and yet when certain testimonies like the ones I have just quoted above from T.M.361,366 are read, "Satan's methods tend to one end--to make men the slaves of men." T.M.361. "Satan's methods are practiced among Seventh-day Adventists who claim to have advanced truth." Idem,366, or like this one, "The high-handed power that has been developed as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear," (T.M.366) these are brushed aside or totally ignored as to be too negative or not worthy of the attention of those who are seeking for truth. Statements like these, warning us about men in responsible positions who are using Satan's methods to justify their principles, "putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men" (T.M.481) in order "to bring the individuals to their terms," (T.M.360) men whose motto is "rule or ruin," (T.M.360) should arrest our attention and cause us to be more cautious when reading anything that is called "testimony" outside Mrs. White's books and periodicals. Is she talking about Kellogg here or about the G.C. leaders? sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: John317 Do you have a choice as to whether your root will be changed? What begins the process? 1. NO! Remember 1Corinthians 6:18-19. You don't own yourself! 2. GOD! So if I am someone who is outside of Christ and am living in sin, there's nothing I can do to get inside of Christ and stop living in sin? None of my choices will make any difference? If I am lost, it is really God's fault, then, because he could have changed me if He had wanted to. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 So, people are not responsible for their root or for what they do as a result of their root? If another guy comes up to you and beats you in the face, you will know that he's not at fault because he had no choice but to follow the dictates of his evil root? If you wouldn't react this way, please explain why you would hold him responsible for his actions. You are RESPONSIBLE because God says you are responsible! The Bible says so! You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? Romans 2:1-4. As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”[c] 13 “Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.”[d] “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[e] 14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[f] 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[g] 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Romans 3:10-18. What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f] 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? Romans 9:14-21. Thus, whether it seems "fair" to you or not the Bible states that this is the way things are! As Romans chapter nine verse twenty states "directly to you and all humanity" WHO ARE YOU! You see John317 your arrogance and mine as well (from our evil root aka "sinful nature") rebels against what God is doing and cries "foul"! However, as Paul states God is the One setting the Rules and these are His Rules! Since as you wrote in another Thread "Who is greater God or the Law?" I believe your words were, "God is the Law therefore God is not subject the Law." Thus, God is Sovereign and He says we are guilty even though we are born without choice with a sinful nature that makes us sin and sinful! We are born guilty in every way! We did not choose to be born guilty but God decreed that we were born guilty because of Adam's sin! Is that fair? God says it is fair and that He is Righteous for doing it. Surely you are not saying God is "unrighteous" for making us guilty for what Adam did? If you say yes to that question then you are defying God and His Word! That's bad ground to stand on! Quote
skyblue888 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Regarding free will. Look at the man of Romans 7. His will to do good is not lacking. In fact the man of Romans 7 chooses to do good but always ends up doing the evil that he hates. So how much "free will" does he have at the end of the day? Oh, he does will to do the right thing and yet his confession is the confession of a defeated man, time and time again. He is not a free man until He is made a new creature in Christ Jesus. Then his will becomes one with the will of God through Christ by the Spirit and then he is free from the law of sin and death which is in his members, as long as he continues in the faith. The man of Romans 8 is a free agent but not the man of Romans 7. What do you say? sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
miz3 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 So if I am someone who is outside of Christ and am living in sin, there's nothing I can do to get inside of Christ and stop living in sin? None of my choices will make any difference? If I am lost, it is really God's fault, then, because he could have changed me if He had wanted to. I just answered those questions! See my quotes from the Book of Romans on this issue of whether God is fair! NO GOD IS NOT TO FAULT! You are ignoring all that I wrote before about God initiating the process. As John chapter one states that God comes to everyone with His Light! So no one is excluded from God's working on their "root". As John chapter three states humans REJECT GOD'S WORK because they love darkness more than Light! They didn't choose the Light the Light came to them without their choice. However, many REJECT THE LIGHT! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 In 1903 she wrote, "God has permitted the present crisis to come to open the eyes of those who desire to know the truth. He would have His people understand to what lengths the sophistry and devising of the enemy would lead... Few can see the meaning of the present apostasy. But the Lord has lifted the curtain, and has shown me its meaning, and the results that it will have if allowed to continue." A Solemn Warning, Oct.1, 1903. John, I came across that statement at the last minute and could not verify the context and decided to use it anyway. I hesitated using it and came very close to leaving it for the time being until I could be sure of its context. I usually make sure about the context. As far as I can remember this is the first time it happens. I stand corrected. However given the fact that in 1903 the leaders in General Conference annihilated the reformatory steps of the 1901 constitution as given by the Lord Himself at that Conference, it is not unreasonable for one to read that statement above and apply it to the 1903 apostasy for at that conference the self-confident management of men resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. What is Ellen White talking about below, especially in the first two paragraphs and in the last paragraph? Is Ellen White the author? What does she say about the Living Temple and about Dr. Kellogg? Quote: God has permitted the presentation of the combination of good and evil in "Living Temple" to be made to reveal the danger threatening us. The working that has been so ingeniously carried on he has permitted in order that certain developments might be made, and that it might be seen what a man can do with human minds when he has obtained their confidence as a physician. God has permitted the present crisis to come to open the eyes of those who desire to know the truth. He would have His people understand to what lengths the sophistry and devising of the enemy would lead. {SpTB07 36.2} Men have given to our leading physician allegiance that is due to God alone; and he has been permitted to show what self-exaltation will lead men to do. Scientific, spiritualistic sentiments, representing the Creator as an essence pervading all nature, have been given to our people, and have been received even by some who have had a long experience as teachers in the word of God. The results of this insidious devising will break out again and again. There are many for whom special efforts will have to be put forth to free them from this specious deception. {SpTB07 36.3} I am now authorized to say that the time has come to take decided action. The development seen in the cause of God is similar to the development seen when Balaam caused Israel to sin just before they entered the promised land. How dangerous it is so to exalt any man that he becomes confused, and confuses the minds of others in regard to the truths that for the last fifty years the Lord has been giving his people. {SpTB07 36.4} Few can see the meaning of the present apostasy. But the Lord has lifted the curtain, and has shown me its meaning, and the result that it will have if allowed to continue. We must now lift our voices in warning. Will our people acknowledge God as the supreme Ruler, or will they choose the misleading arguments and views that, when fully developed, make Him, in the minds of those who accept them, as nothingness? {SpTB07 37.1} These words were spoken to me in the night season. The sentiments in "Living Temple" regarding the personality of God have been received even by men who have had a long experience in the truth. When such men consent to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we are no longer to regard the subject as a matter to be treated with the greatest delicacy. That those whom we thought sound in the faith should have failed to discern the specious, deadly influence of this science of evil, should alarm us as nothing else has alarmed us. {SpTB07 37.2} Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
skyblue888 Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 John, all I care about is knowing God aright, knowing the true relation between nature and nature's God. Mrs. White said that God took John the Baptist to the wilderness to teach him about nature and nature's God. (1 S.M.410) Here is what he learned and what all must learn in order to know God as it is our privilege to know Him: "The greatness of God is to us incomprehensible. ' The Lord's throne is in Heaven ' (Ps.11:4); yet by His Spirit He is everywhere present. He has an intimate knowledge of and a personal interest in all the works of His hands." Education,132. So the Holy Spirit is "the unseen, mighty Intelligence that is working in and through all," "the intelligent presence and active agency of a Being who moves in all things according to His will," "the Presence that pervades all created things," for "the divine Spirit is the presence and power of God." Education,14; M.H.416; Education,100; Signs of the Times, Nov.23,1891. This is what I have been teaching for many years and this is what I shall be teaching as long as I live. Here I stand, help me God. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted July 21, 2011 Moderators Posted July 21, 2011 John, all I care about is knowing God aright, knowing the true relation between nature and nature's God. Mrs. White said that God took John the Baptist to the wilderness to teach him about nature and nature's God. (1 S.M.410) Sure, OK. But are you saying you don't care if Ellen White was the one who wrote those statements quoted in my last post? I am simply asking you if Ellen White wrote SpTB07 36.2, which include some of the statements you quoted. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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