CAN YOU EXPLAIN JESUS WORDS?

[phkrause]

I think thats a bit complicated miz3, I read it more simply than that.

"No truth does the Bible more clearly teach than that what we do is the result of what we are." Page 146, Education, Ellen G. White. 1952 edition.

I see it in the same manner as saying, "You are what you eat." Your actions, words, nuances, expressions bear testimony to "what we are". I choose to be more like Jesus and He has given us much counsel on how to do that. Through the health message He has given us we can have a clearer mind to understand spiritual things. Better physcial health to work for Him. The bible to feed our spiritual soul. Thus, beholding we become changed. We have choices to make, read or not read the bible daily. Accept or reject the excellent counsel of Ellen White to improve our lives.

Prayer, faith, love, study, diet, exercise, these are all choices that we may become more like Him.

Excellent points Club, I was thinking the same thing.

[phkrause]

from Miz3

Quote:

As we stated earlier the only way to not be these things is FOR THE POWER OF GOD TO CHANGE US (by His choice not our choice) and then make us into sheep, fig trees, and good trees

I cannot agree that we have no choice in the matter. While I do not disbelieve EGW, what I am saying is not from her words.

The Bible tells us that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

If that is the case, if God's pleasure prevailed, all would be saved.

When Jesus stood over Jerusalem and wept that her people would not receive Him, surely His tears prove that those people had choice.

Was Joshua mocking the Children of Israel when he asked them to choose Whom they would serve?

I third that. Great post Nan.

[miz3]

pkrause,

What do you think Matthew chapter seven means?

[skyblue888]

Of course we have the choice to choose whether we will remain slaves to our sinful nature or be delivered but until that choice is made and we must make that choice every day, we have no free will as far as choosing to overcome. The man of Romans 7 chooses to overcome but he is defeated every time.

"Education, culture, the exercise of the will, human effort, all have their proper sphere, but here they are powerless. They may produce an outward correctness of behaviour, but they cannot change the heart, they cannot purify the springs of life. There must be a power working from within, a new life from above, before men can be changed from sin to holiness. That power is Christ. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness." S.C.18.

I believe this is what miz3 is saying.

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Of course we have the choice to choose whether we will remain slaves to our sinful nature or be delivered but until that choice is made and we must make that choice every day, we have no free will as far as choosing to overcome. The man of Romans 7 chooses to overcome but he is defeated every time.

"Education, culture, the exercise of the will, human effort, all have their proper sphere, but here they are powerless. They may produce an outward correctness of behaviour, but they cannot change the heart, they cannot purify the springs of life. There must be a power working from within, a new life from above, before men can be changed from sin to holiness. That power is Christ. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness." S.C.18.

I believe this is what miz3 is saying.

sky

If this is what Miz3 is saying, then it is blasphemy. Ever since God told Cain to overcome sin ON HIS OWN, that is exactly what we all must do. Follow ONLY the words of God/Jesus and learn the truth!

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

You mean what David did when he took someone's wife for himself? No, I don't know what an unintentioinal sin is. Please explain.

Well, that kind of sin is willful and deliberate. David knew what he was doing was wrong and he could have resisted the temptation, but instead he planned it and went ahead with it.

Since you are a lawyer, let me ask you: Are all crimes deliberate, willful, and intentional?

(Sins of course are crimes-- committed against the infinite God of heaven and against His Kingedom, instead of against the laws of finite men.)

YES they are, one must first have the ability to know what is right or wrong to be found guilty of a crime.

Speeding is not a crime, it is a code violation. Many things that what you would think is a crime is actually NOT a crime because they are only violations of a contract, code or regulation. If that regulation is not promligated (published and made known), then one can't be found guilty of that violation.

Therefore, I ask you again, what is an unintentional sin? Since you refuse to show or tell us or give one example of one, then what you said is wrong John317.

[miz3]

Quote:

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7:15-19.

In addition to what musicman1228 said, and he did very well in his explanation, I would add the following.

Jesus uses three symbols of contrast here to make His point! The three symbols of contrast are the:

1. Sheep vs. Wolves in sheep's outerwear.

2. Grape vines, fig trees vs. thorn bushes, thistles.

3. Good trees vs. bad trees

In all three of these contrasts the things being contrasted are WHAT THEY ARE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY ARE.

The sheep are sheep because they are sheep. They can only produce sheepness. They can only act, think, eat, sleep, etc. like sheep. It is IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO BE ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE!

The wolves in sheep's outerwear appear to be sheep but they are not. They are wolves! Even though they look outwardly like sheep they are not. As such these masqueraders can only act, eat, sleep, and behave in every way like wolves. It is IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE "INWARDLY"!

Thus, Jesus Christ is warning us to watch carefully what kind of "fruit" or what kind of production something produces because eventually the real product will appear. Why? BECAUSE A THING IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS "INWARDLY"!

The same PRINCIPLE holds true for thornbushes, thistles, grape vines, fig trees, good trees, bad trees.

Jesus Christ used three examples to make sure that this VITAL PRINCIPLE would not be mistaken!

Quote:

THE PRINCIPLE: Things are what they are because of what they are. It is IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO BE ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THE INNER BEING DETERMINES WHAT KIND OF THING A THING IS! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO ANYTHING ELSE!

Therefore, humans are what they are because of what they are! It is IMPOSSIBLE FOR A HUMAN BEING TO BE ANYTHING BUT THE KIND OF HUMAN BEING THEY ARE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE!

Jesus Christ was clearly debunking;

1. That humans are FREE MORAL AGENTS!

2. Beware and watchful of what kind of human being you associate with and identify with. They may appear on the outside to be "sheep" like you but inside they are "wolves". Thus, be careful and watchful! [the Pharisees for example].

In other words my friends you and I are "sinners" not because we "choose"???? to sin, but rather it is because inwardly we are "sinners"! You can't help what you are, because you are what you are!

The main moral of this parable is that you cannot change what you are! So what hope then is there for you?

JESUS CHRIST!

God in His own Words is telling us that Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross will change our "wolfiness" to genuine "sheepness"! Only God through Jesus Christ and the working of the Holy Spirit can change what kind "animal", "plant", or "tree" we are!

WE ARE WHAT WE ARE BECAUSE WE ARE!

This is miz3's position!

[skyblue888]

But the matter of salvation should be simple, just as simple as the alphabet. "Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent." "Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." For "The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in your behalf." "Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Therefore, "The only faith that will benefit us is that which appropriates His merits to ourselves." "Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." "We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness, and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use."

I always get so amazed at the clarity and simplicty of these words making the Gospel understandable to great and small, to rich and poor.

sky