The Lord's Two Prophets

[Truth Files]

Revelation

11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

The Lord will not leave the nation of Israel without a prophet during the coming tribulation period. The 70th week [2,520 days] is the final seven years of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel and it will be a time of testing for the nation as well as one of redemption for a believing remnant. [Revelation 11:3-12]

All of Israel's past encounters with divine intervention and judgment have included the presence of a prophet. The same will take place during the time of the end of this present age and specifically for Israel .... the time of "Jacob's trouble" [Jeremiah 30; Daniel 12; Zechariah 14; Matthew 24; Revelation 12]

Two prophets [witnesses] will be present and active during the last half of the 70th week and will continue for a period of 42 months [1,260 days]. [Revelation 11:1-13]

This period will begin when Israel is conquered by the satan's beast [in the little horn] at the middle of the 70th week and will end just prior to the beginning of the Lord's turning against him and his kingdom during 30 days following the end of his 42month rule. [Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 16]

Israel will have been invaded and will be occupied by the little horn's armies [Revelation 11:2] when these two prophets of the Lord begin their testimony. The symbols used to represent these prophets are the olive tree and the candlestick [lamp stand]. These symbols identify them as both Israelite and inspired followers of the Lord.

Some think that they will be Enoch and Elijah, but the two prophets will be mortals who will be supernaturally protected during their service. They will be killed by the beast and subsequently raised as a witness of the Lord's resurrection power and authority. This process would not be necessary if they were immortal humans from the past. [Revelation 11:8-12]

The location of operation for the two will be from Jerusalem, and any attempt to harm them will bring sudden death to their adversaries. {Revelation 11:8]

Their purpose will be to demonstrate the Lord's presence and power in the face of the beast and his false prophet by performing supernatural acts which will include calling down His judgments upon an unbelieving world.

Satan's offset and counter to these two witnesses of the Lord will be his false prophet, the second beast of Revelation 13.

This beast is another fallen angel who will lead the cult of Abaddon-Apollyon and will be manifested in two human religious clerics [two horns .... the other 10 horns are political kings]. These cult leaders will cause the followers of the beast to worship him as a god.

The Lord's two prophets will play a significant role as part of His intent to provide a witness to unbelievers and assurance to those who become believers during the tribulation period.

Their supernatural acts will demonstrate His power and authority which will ultimately prove out to be more than a match for satan's beast and his false prophet.

The Lord will be in command of these two witnesses and also the 144,000 Israelites who will be communicating the gospel during the tribulation. Their victories will be the salvation of some during the period.[Revelation 6:2; 7:1-8; 14:1-7]

When the two witnesses have finished their testimony the Lord will allow Abaddon-Apollyon to attack and kill them. Their physical bodies will be left unattended for public viewing in Jerusalem. [Revelation 11:7-8]

Those affected by the judgments that were administered through them will celebrate their deaths, thinking that Abaddon-Apollyon has been victorious against these two prophets.

The Lord's response will include an audible command, resurrection of the prophets back to life, and their removal from the earth.

This will cause great fear and anguish for those followers of the beast who will observe this demonstration of the Lord's great power and authority. Some of these will actually repent and turn to the Lord. [Revelation 11:13]

An earthquake will accompany this event and one tenth of Jerusalem will be destroyed and 7,000 humans will be killed [most will be followers of the beast who observe the killing of the two witnesses].

Most of the city of Jerusalem will be reduced to rubble during the invasion of the little horn's followers [armies .... Daniel 9:26; Luke 21:20-22] which will occur earlier at the middle of the 70th week. The rest of the city's infastructure will be damaged by this earthquake just at the end of the period.

It should be noted that Jerusalem is called the "great city" involved in this event. The other "great city" of Mystery Babylon the Great is the great city part of the gentile nations. [Revelation 11:8; Revelation 17; 18]

There are two great cities noted in Revelation at the time of the end and Jerusalem is not Mystery Babylon's great city part.

Once the two prophets are called up to heaven, the Lord will activate the 7th trumpet sounding bringing His judgments [7 thunders] against the beast and his followers which will occur during 30 days following 1,260 days of the last half of the 70th week decreed for Israel. [Ezekiel 38; 39; Joel 2:9-16; Revelation 10:7; 11:15; 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

The Lord will then appear visibly to the world immediately after the tribulation period, gather the mortal survivors who are left, separate out believers who will enter and populate His millennial kingdom, and He will rule the world from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46; Micah 4; Zechariah 14:6-11; Revelation 20:1-6]

[Lysimachus]

• Revelation

  11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

  11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

What are these two witnesses?

• Zechariah

  4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,

  4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all [of] gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which [are] upon the top thereof:

  4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right [side] of the bowl, and the other upon the left [side] thereof.

  4:4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What [are] these, my lord?

  4:5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

  4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

  4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

  4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these [be]? And I said, No, my lord.

  4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

We believe it is consistent to believe that the Two Witnesses of Revelaton 11 represent the Old and New Testaments, or better yet, the Law and the Prophets through written and oral testimony-- as well supported in Zechariah chapter 4.

The Bible laid dead (completely banned) in the streets of France for exactly 3 1/2 years, from 1793 to 1797.

This subject is discussed in great detail in Walter Veith's presentation:

The Beast from the Bottomless Pit.

A great online exegetical study can be found here:

http://teachinghearts.org/dre17hrev11.html

I'm sorry, but no matter how hard one tries, you can't ever make two olive trees and two candlesticks EVER be two literal men! These are symbolic of God's Word and those who are filled with His Spirit, and bear witness for His Law and His Testimony!

[Truth Files]

I know what EGW has taught you, but there is no scriptural baisis for the ruse ..... just another allegorical insertion

Her idea does not fit the detailed descriptions of the two prophets and their location and activities during the second 1260 days of the Lord's hour [time] of trial given in Revelation 11 .... one must read it all

Not unlike the aberrant teaching of the pied pipers of the MSOG latter rain movements who claim to be the corporate man-child caught up instead of the Lord in chapter 12

Cleverly devised fables are never a vaild substitute for the literal rendering of a prophetic vision

EGW did not understand the prophetic scriptures and she was not what she claimed to be

[Lysimachus]

I know what EGW has taught you, but there is no scriptural baisis for the ruse ..... just another allegorical insertion

Her idea does not fit the detailed descriptions of the two prophets and their location and activities during the second 1260 days of the Lord's hour [time] of trial given in Revelation 11 .... one must read it all

Not unlike the aberrant teaching of the pied pipers of the MSOG latter rain movements who claim to be the corporate man-child caught up instead of the Lord in chapter 12

Cleverly devised fables are never a vaild substitute for the literal rendering of a prophetic vision

You need to tell the expositors who wrote on the Two Witnesses before Ellen White was born that they were borrowing what she taught them:

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/french-revolution.htm

[Lysimachus]

Her idea does not fit the detailed descriptions of the two prophets and their location and activities during the second 1260 days of the Lord's hour [time] of trial given in Revelation 11 .... one must read it all

Not unlike the aberrant teaching of the pied pipers of the MSOG latter rain movements who claim to be the corporate man-child caught up instead of the Lord in chapter 12

Cleverly devised fables are never a vaild substitute for the literal rendering of a prophetic vision

[Lysimachus]

In 1887, H. Grattan Guinness, a famous expositor who was never a Seventh-Day Adventist, insightfully wrote the following:

• "Futurism is literalism, and literalism in the interpretation of symbols is a denial of their symbolic character. It is an abuse and degradation of the prophetic word, and a destruction of its influence. It substitutes the imaginary for the real, the grotesque and monstrous for the sober and reasonable. It quenches the precious light which has guided the saints for ages, and kindles a wild, delusive marshfire in its place. It obscures the wisdom of Divine prophecy; it denies the true character of the days in which we live; and while it asserts the nearness of the advent of Christ in the power and glory of His kingdom, it at the same time destroys the only substantial foundation for the assertion, which is prophetic chronology, and the stage now reached in the fulfillment of the predictions of the apostasy." (H. Grattan Guinness, Romanism and the Reformation From the Standpoint of Prophecy, pp. 298, 299. (1887)

I say a hardy amen to this!

[Truth Files]

"Saying so doesn't make it true"

>Do you hear an echo?

[cheddar]

I definitely have to agree with truth files on this one.

No amount of colorful language can change two prophets into a book and the 'great city' is a theme that runs throughout Revelation. The 'great city' is identified as Babylon and Jerusalem but never France.

Another historic relic of the Adventist church that refuses to die.

It is correct to draw our conclusions from the book of Zechariah because that is where the original story comes from.

I have read many bible commentaries and the vast majority identify the two anointed ones as Zerubbabel the governor and Joshua the high priest. I think even a few Adventist commentaries identify them that way.

Kings and priests were both anointed. Zerubbabel may not have been king but he was in the place of king. David was referred to as the Lord's anointed.

Zerubbabel and Joshua are types of the two witnesses in Rev. 11.

[Truth Files]

"Zerubbabel and Joshua are types of the two witnesses in Rev. 11"

>Yes they are, and this is why the parallel is given with regard to the Lord's two future prophets of Revelation 11 .... it will be the time of Jacob's trouble and the Lord has never left Israel without a prophet in a time of pressuring

>I would also suggest that there will be two for off setting the false prophet [Revelation 13:11] who will lead the cult religion of Satan's angelic beast in the little horn .... notice that this second beast has two horns similar to the 10 of the first beast .... these 10 are defined as human kings

>I believe that the false prophet will manifest in two human cleric types .... Satan's off sets against the Lord's two prophets

>If the cult religion of the Abaddon-Apollyon is Islam, the two horns will be the joining of the Shiite and the Sunni divisions of Islam

>The false prophet looks like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon [satan] .... Islam claims to be a religion of peace, but at the same time requires that all infidels who will not submit should be killed [Revelation 13:15]

[Aliensanctuary]

A fire-breathing lambkin...now wouldn't that catch a lot of people off-guard...be deceived and worship a peace-loving, false god, or die.

[John317]

EGW did not understand the prophetic scriptures and she was not what she claimed to be

I know people who make the same claim about Christ-- some even say he never existed. But does their statement by itself make it true?

As I said earlier, your posts prove that you don't know her writings well enough to say whether she was or wasn't who she claimed to be. In fact, I doubt you know what she claimed.

In case you would like to find out, read 1 Selected Messages 25-45. You might as well study and know something about the things you plan on attacking.

[Aussiemike]

Revelation

The Lord will not leave the nation of Israel without a prophet during the coming tribulation period. The 70th week [2,520 days] is the final seven years of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel and it will be a time of testing for the nation as well as one of redemption for a believing remnant. [Revelation 11:3-12]

Your fetish for the belief in the return of the Jews is a denial of the New Covenant bought about by the death of Jesus

EPHESIANS 2:11-22

Brought Near by His Blood

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Christ Our Peace

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Christ Our Cornerstone

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

This entire passage refers to the amalgamation of both Jew and Gentile believers into one NEW group - CHRISTIANS.

“Broken down the middle wall of division between us”

“middle wall” literally means: ‘The partition wall which is the fence’ The sacred limits of the Jewish Temple were fenced off by a low balustrade of stone, with columns at intervals. On the columns were inscriptions written in Greek and Latin warning all Gentiles not to pass this boundary on pain of death. In 1871 an inscribed stone was discovered in Jerusalem and is now in the museum at Istanbul. This inscription reads:-

“Let no foreigner enter within the barrier and enclosing wall about the Temple. But whoever may be caught shall be responsible for his own death that will follow.”

The court of the Israelites was in the inner Temple where no Gentile or foreigner was allowed. Paul is saying that the blood of Christ has broken down this wall of partition that separated Jew and Gentile when it came to worshipping God in the Jerusalem Temple.

verse 19 “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.”

As a result of this there is no longer old covenant distinction between Jew and Gentile. When worshipping God the ONE NEW man that has been created from the TWO OLD ones is the CHRISTIAN.

verse 15 “Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.”

This verse does not say the ten commandments are abolished. To say that would do away with the new covenant. The law of commandments contained in ordinances refers to the laws regulating worship in the new covenant regarding the segregation of Jew and Gentile. This segregation has been abolished. In the eyes of God the two old men, Jew and Gentile, have been abolished. God only recognises the one NEW man:- the CHRISTIAN man.

The dispensationalist idea that there are two groups with two destinies. ie the Jewish nation and the christian church. Is a heresy that attempts to rebuild a wall that the death of Jesus tore down.

[Truth Files]

Your historical/allegorical method of interpretation is used for the purpose of ignoring the Lord's intent to preserve a believing remnant of national Israel recorded in scripture

All replacement theologies do the same by picking scripture for supporting their own proprietary movements .... and then sweep the other direct revelations of the Lord's own words on the matter under the rug .... this is heresy

[Aussiemike]

Your historical/allegorical method of interpretation is used for the purpose of ignoring the Lord's intent to preserve a believing remnant of national Israel recorded in scripture

All replacement theologies do the same by picking scripture for supporting their own proprietary movements .... and then sweep the other direct revelations of the Lord's own words on the matter under the rug .... this is heresy

I noticed that you did not answer my post. Your old covenant theology does not fit into the new testament.

The Old Covenant consists of

1. The sacrifice of animals

2. the Levitical priesthood and earthly temple

3. The ten commandments

4. Saturday as the sabbath

5. Old Jerusalem in Palestine

6. Ethnic Israel as God's people

The New Covenant consists of

1. The sacrifice of Jesus

2. The heavenly priesthood and heavenly temple

3. The ten commandments

4. Saturday as the sabbath

5. The New Jerusalem.

6. The church as the new covenant people

The Antichrist false covenant

1. The sacrifice of the mass

2. The Roman Catholic priesthood and earthly temple

3. The Roman Catholic version of the ten commandments

4. Sunday as the sabbath

5. Vatican city as a counterfeit of the new jerusalem

6. Only baptised catholics as God's people.

You believe in the re establishment of the Old covenant. with God's old covenant people the Jews rebuilding the temple and re-instituting the animal sacrifices with a old covenant priesthood. You believe that God is behind this in spite of the fact that the bible repeatedly says the old covenant is abolished.

The re institution of the old covenant sacrifices in a rebuilt temple in modern Jerusalem is not from God but is a denial of the sacrifice of Jesus therefore is demonic

[Truth Files]

I noticed that you did not answer my post

>And you should know why .... I think you are wrong on this matter and all of my postings indicate the same

>I prefer to avoid debating other posters when I know in advance that confrontation will result

>I post to share information related to Bible prophecy as I see it and with no other motivation

>If you have a valid and related question about the Lord's continued relationship with His nation of Israel I will answer

[Lysimachus]

AMEN to the above posts Aussiemike!

Those are words of TRUTH! You explained the issues in such a concise manner, better than I think I could have done!

Those put the issues in their proper typical and antitypical perspective.

I implore you before the Lord Almighty, Truth Files, do not ignore those words of rich treasure and wisdom. They are heavenly rays of light--emanating truth--like sap from the Living Vine!

If you continue down the path of Satan's counterfeit prophetic interpretations, I guarantee you that in the end, you will end up being deceived by the Sea Beast of Revelation, and because you have misidentified not only the Beast but also his Mark, you will, sadly, end up receiving it if you do not change.

Wrongly identifying the Beast and His Mark is -- one more time -- IS deadly.

May these resounding explosive truths bestir the soul to action and repentance before God, and may we carry forth the Three Angel's Messages to the whole world as we DENOUNCE and EXPOSE the Beast (Papacy) and the False Prophet (Dispensational Protestantism)!

[Truth Files]

"If you continue down the path of Satan's counterfeit prophetic interpretations, I guarantee you that in the end, you will end up being deceived by the Sea Beast of Revelation, and because you have misidentified not only the Beast but also his Mark, you will, sadly, end up receiving it if you do not change"

>I believe that it is the preterist/post-tribulation/ replacement theologist among the earths populations that will be deceived by Satan's beast

>Here is why:

>Satan is the one who spreads deception against the Lord's intent to immortalize today's church just before He brings His hour of trial [Revelation 3:10] [the time of Jacob's trouble - the 70th week decreed] upon an unbelieving world of intransigence

>Don't let him snooker you into the tribulation period [if you happen to be alive at the time] where his beast will hunt you down and kill you if you do not submit to him .... his prime targets will be those of national Israel and professing christians who were not really saved before the tribulation begins [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

>Even if you become a believer after .... your chances of survival will be minimal [Revelation 13; 14:13] .... however, you can be saved, but you will wait until the end of the period for your resurrection [Revelation 6:9-11; 20:4 [those beheaded]

>There will be some gentiles of the nations who will survive physically, but they must be supportive of Israel during the tribulation period [Matthew 25:31-46] .... if so these sheep will enter the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth as mortals .... if not one will join the goats

[Dr. Rich]

Look folks, the two witnesses in Rev. 11 are the leaders of the 144k who are alive right now and are in fact humans. Just as Adam and Eve were to be two witnessess to the rest of the world, so will these two witnesses be to an evil world. Please notice that they are killed and a great earthquake and a tenth of the city fell, and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake.

Well duh, that NEVER did happen with any bibles as in the old testiment and new testiment! This is serious and please don't be a fool and try to change what the words say, as the penalty for that isn't very nice!

[Musicman1228]

The Two Witnesses are not inanimate objects that have no life in themselves, they are two actual human beings who are leading the last Kingdom of Heaven (not Israel, which was the first and second) in challenging the BEAST during the 42 months (literal) during the Great Tribulation. The 'Great City' is where 'their Lord was Crucified', and this is Jerusalem and not Rome or France (a country is not a city, even in prophecy). When they are resurrected from the dead they 'stand on their FEET. On this earth only humans have feet upon which to stand.

So when the Two Witnesses are killed 3 1/2 days before the sounding of the 7th Trumpet their deaths are literal; and when they are resurrected they stand on their actual 'own two feet'.

This is an inconvenient interpretation that comes from future/present context not an historic one, which does not allow for a 'spiritual' or 'figurative' interpretation as to who the Two Witnesses are.

[Lysimachus]

There is no "replacement theology" here.

It's "inclusion theology". God's boarders have been extended to the WHOLE human race, Jew and Gentile alike!

French will be saved, but not France

English will be saved, but not England

Egyptians will be saved, but not Egypt

Chinese will be saved, but not China

...etc. etc.

The same with Israel. The Nation of Israel will not be saved, but Israelites will be saved, and will be included in God's all encompassing Spiritual Israel.

The wall of partition has come CRASHING down. To make such a distinction between National Israel and the Church is to REBUILD the wall that Christ has demolished at the Cross!!

[Aussiemike]

I noticed that you did not answer my post

>And you should know why .... I think you are wrong on this matter and all of my postings indicate the same

>I prefer to avoid debating other posters when I know in advance that confrontation will result

>I post to share information related to Bible prophecy as I see it and with no other motivation

>If you have a valid and related question about the Lord's continued relationship with His nation of Israel I will answer

Yes i know why. you cannot answer them. You are a classic example of people believing only what they want to believe rather than the truth.

You are an old covenant spruker and a heretic

[miz3]

Nothing like watching the blind lead the blind! The only thing more sorrowful than that is watching the blind argue about the Light which they do not see and do not know anything about!

[Lysimachus]

Truth Files,

So the Church Saints endured the most trying persecutions during the Dark Ages, and got slaughtered and tortured by the millions for over 1000 years, and were hunted down like packs of wolves as they fled to the mountains simply for reading their Bible and not confessing to a priest, and yet somehow, SOMEHOW, God's Church in the very end gets to go "scott free!".

If that doesn't ever sound like a bunch of people who get "off the hook".

So basically, you are saying that 99.999% of the Church has suffered tribulation, but the very end when the Antichrist surfaces, it gets to go scott free.

No offense, but I think this is ridiculous.

Martyrdom of God's end-time Church will work as SEED for the gospel, and bring conviction to others who see that we were willing to die for Jesus!

[Aliensanctuary]

Jeremiah 31:

Quote:

31. "Behold, the days are coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

32. "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,'' says the Lord.

33. "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The New Covenant which the LORD is referring to above will not go into effect until his laws are programmed into the minds of the people, as stated above. They will then serve the LORD with undying loyalty and obedience. This programming must occur before entrance into the Kingdom of God as permanent members.

The New Covenant, then, is the downloading of the Laws of God into our minds, and the destruction of self, so that we will not be able to violate them.

[Aussiemike]

Jeremiah 31:

The New Covenant, then, is the downloading of the Laws of God into our minds, and the destruction of self, so that we will not be able to violate them.

There is no such thing as not being able to violate the commandments. 1/3 of the sinless angels did as did adam and eve.