The Lord's Two Prophets

[Truth Files]

"You are an old covenant spruker and a heretic"

Your demeanor reveals the infestation of an alien voice

Let the Lord speak:

[Revelation 3:9]

Are you living in an old man's rubble,

Are you listening to the father of lies?

If you are then you better be careful

If you listen too long you'll eventually die

Are you walking with unnecessary burdens,

Are you trying to take them upon yourself?

If you are, then you're living in bondage,

And you know that's bad for your spiritual health.

Are you puzzled by the way that you're behaving,

Do you wonder why you do the things you do?

And are you troubled by your lack of resistance,

Do you feel that something's got a hold on you?

And are you trying to live by your emotions,

Are you putting your faith in what you feel and see?

Then you're living just to satisfy your passions,

And you better be careful 'cause you're being deceived.

Well deep within you, there's a spiritual battle

There's a voice of the darkness and a voice of the light

And just by listening, you have made a decision

Cause the voice you hear is gonna win the fight.

Are you living in an old man's rubble,

Are you listening to the father of lies?

If you are then you're headed for trouble;

If you listen too long you'll eventually die.

If you're living as a new creation

If you're listening to the Father of Light

Then you're living in a mighty fortress

And you're gonna be clothed in power and might.

[brown Banister]

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

There is no such thing as not being able to violate the commandments. 1/3 of the sinless angels did as did adam and eve.

Zechariah 13:1

Quote:

A Fountain of Cleansing

"On that day a fountain will be opened for the dynasty of David and for the people of Jerusalem, a fountain to cleanse them from all their sins and defilement.

Those Messengers who have remained loyal to God are unlikely to ever rebel against him. Adam and Eve did not have the Law of God programmed into their minds, neither did they drink from the River of Life flowing from the throne of God. Too bad their selfishness got the better of them, but they were young and inexperienced when they forgot or ignored the LORD's instructions to them, wanting something "better" than what they already had, instead.

Those who drink and bathe in the River of Life will ratify the New Covenant. This is the real baptism that will remove all selfishness and rebellion, and lock us into being loyal servants of the LORD, forever. Once baptized in the River of Life, it will not be possible to rebel against the LORD, because our selfish human natures will be destroyed, making the Kingdom of God safe from rebellion, forever. Only then will humans be able to get along with each other because self will be dead. Only then will other's needs be more important than our own.

Perhaps some would like the cycle of evil to continue throughout eternity, but I suspect the LORD has a better plan, hence, the New Covenant. I believe the Two Witnesses will be explaining the New Covenant to the world during their mission.

[Truth Files]

"So the Church Saints endured the most trying persecutions during the Dark Ages, and got slaughtered and tortured by the millions for over 1000 years, and were hunted down like packs of wolves as they fled to the mountains simply for reading their Bible and not confessing to a priest, and yet somehow, SOMEHOW, God's Church in the very end gets to go "scott free!"

>So tell me, how much suffering and persecution have you experienced in your life time? Do you seek more so that you can some how qualify?

>The Lord's schedule is all a matter of His timing .... and when He decides to bring His wrath upon an intransigent and unbelieving world unexpectedly there are going to be unsaved professing christians [Revelation 3:15-19] and a few billion other unbelievers who are going to get dumped into His hour [time] of trial

>There is a vast difference between the trials and tribulations of this present life [some have more than others] .... and the wrath of God that is coming

>Some will turn and believe during His unprecedented judgments that He intends to pour out upon the earth .... but most will not according to Revelation's unfolding

>Most who do will be martyred for their faith .... a few will get through [Matthew 24:29-31 [of Israel]; 25:31-46 [of the nations]]

>It is all a matter of His timing

>And I can tell you this; there will be those few believers living at the time that He will keep from His intent to judge [1Thessalonians 5:1-9; Revelation 3:10]

.... nothing to do with getting off "scott free"

>He said that one must be ready .... for a reason [He is not going to announce His coming visitation before hand]

>Are you ready? [Matthew 25:1-13]

>Seek the Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation and He will set you free .... do you believe this?

[Dr. Rich]

Nothing like watching the blind lead the blind! The only thing more sorrowful than that is watching the blind argue about the Light which they do not see and do not know anything about!

I have to agree Miz3. It's like the king of the north and the king of the south arguing that the other is following Satan, but then God steps in and says that both of them are evil.

[Aussiemike]

I have to agree Miz3. It's like the king of the north and the king of the south arguing that the other is following Satan, but then God steps in and says that both of them are evil.

So you are telling me that i am evil because i dont believe the theological garbage. of Miz3 and truthfiles. Thats a new definition of evil. Jesus was told that he had a devil so i suppose im in good company

[Dr. Rich]

You can believe what ever you like and it is no skin of my nose my friend! I did NOT mean that you were 'evil', what I made in reference to was an argument with both sides having problems just as YOU also had noticed. I enjoy reading other's opinions even though they do not agree with my present understanding, because one never knows when something might be found that is new such as like aliensanctuary gives us on the blog from time to time. Just because I might not agree with aliensanctuary on some issues, that does not mean I don't want him to stop writing! By NO means! Same with most others who blog here.

I do not agree with Miz3 on some issues, but I do see how and why Miz3 has developed his opinion. And I repect that.

What bothers me most I suppose is when one presents an issue with evidence like TruthFiles (as others) has and because it does not agree with prior words of EGW, then people make fun of it.

Pointing out that no earthquake happened when the bibles were burned has caused many to shout "kill the messenger"

[Lysimachus]

The fact is, nowhere does it say in the Bible that an earthquake happened at the VERY time Bibles were burned.

Revelation's texts are very broad, sometimes covering decades or even centuries of history in just 2 or 3 words.

[Dr. Rich]

The fact is, nowhere does it say in the Bible that an earthquake happened at the VERY time Bibles were burned.

Revelation's texts are very broad, sometimes covering decades or even centuries of history in just 2 or 3 words.

Rev. 11:3-14. Take a look at verse 11 and you will see that at the same hour as when the two witnesses had rose from the dead, that there was a great earthquake and a tenth of the city fell and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake. I didn't write this, Jesus gave it to John to write it down. It's all there to see for yourself that those who believe that the two witnesses were the old and new testament that were burned had to be mistakenly wrong.

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

The fact is, nowhere does it say in the Bible that an earthquake happened at the VERY time Bibles were burned.

Revelation's texts are very broad, sometimes covering decades or even centuries of history in just 2 or 3 words.

Rev. 11:3-14. Take a look at verse 11 and you will see that at the same hour as when the two witnesses had rose from the dead, that there was a great earthquake and a tenth of the city fell and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake. I didn't write this, Jesus gave it to John to write it down. It's all there to see for yourself that those who believe that the two witnesses were the old and new testament that were burned had to be mistakenly wrong.

Go to the EGW CD-Rom, and type in "And the same hour was there a great earthquake" under the "Words of the Pioneers" section. Read what James White, Uriah Smith, A.T. Jones, etc. had to say on the matter.

There you will find how these passages have been understood by Adventists for years.

It blows my mind how so many Adventists always act like we have not had any explanations for these passages in the past.

[miz3]

Lysimachus,

Are you hiding from me because you cannot answer my questions on the "70 X 7" thread?

I thought you had all the answers which is why as you put it, "your opponents ran away"!

I am not running but it appears that you have run away from me!

[Lysimachus]

Lysimachus,

Are you hiding from me because you cannot answer my questions on the "70 X 7" thread?

I thought you had all the answers which is why as you put it, "your opponents ran away"!

I am not running but it appears that you have run away from me!

Miz3, if there are some questions I have missed, then forgive me. I am not able to keep up with all your posts. You post a lot, and seem to have a lot more time than most of us. I'm working several jobs on the internet and trying to keep up with not only this forum, but about 3 other forums on the net. There are a lot of posts you have made that I have not even read yet, and it will take me some time to go through all of them. I cannot answer posts I have not read. You have to be patient. I'm a very busy person.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Lysimachus,

Are you hiding from me because you cannot answer my questions on the "70 X 7" thread?

I thought you had all the answers which is why as you put it, "your opponents ran away"!

I am not running but it appears that you have run away from me!

Miz3, if there are some questions I have missed, then forgive me. I am not able to keep up with all your posts. You post a lot, and seem to have a lot more time than most of us. I'm working several jobs on the internet and trying to keep up with not only this forum, but about 3 other forums on the net. There are a lot of posts you have made that I have not even read yet, and it will take me some time to go through all of them. I cannot answer posts I have not read. You have to be patient. I'm a very busy person.

I have reposted my questions on "70 x 7"! They are there now!

[Truth Files]

"It's all there to see for yourself that those who believe that the two witnesses were the old and new testament that were burned had to be mistakenly wrong."

>I would say deliberately wrong .... and a way to manipulate for force fitting scripture into a designed falsehood

>Here is a challenge for those who take EGW's offering at face value:

>Insert the O.T, and the N.T in each verse that tells of experience the Lord's two prophets during the coming time of the end

>Only an idiot would believe, or a scam artist would sell this ruse

[John317]

>Here is a challenge for those who take EGW's offering at face value:

>Insert the O.T, and the N.T in each verse that tells of experience the Lord's two prophets during the coming time of the end

Show us how it's done and what your reasoning is.

[Truth Files]

"Show us how it's done and what your reasoning is"

>Simple, just replace the two prophets with the the O.T and N.T

>Then re-study the chapter

>Example: "And I will power to the O.T. and the N.T. and they shall prophecy 1260 days dressed in sackcloth" [Revelation 11:3] [Revelation 11:2 tells of the same time frame when Jerusalem will be tread under foot for 42 months]

>Example: "And the dead bodies of the O.T and the N.T shall lie in the streets of the great city [Jerusalem] which is called Sodom and Egypt where also our Lord was crucified

>These are two prophets [mortal humans who are killed and then resurrected] .... not the O.T and the N.T

[Musicman1228]

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. Rev.11:4.

Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” Zec. 4:14.

Ones ~ 1121 ben bane from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name).

This ONES are human beings not inanimate objects. There was also no Old Testament or New Testament when the prophecy in Zechariah was given.

The Two Witnesses cannot be the OT and the NT, they are two human beings who are alive at the appointed time of the end.

[John317]

>Example: "And I will power to the O.T. and the N.T. and they shall prophecy 1260 days dressed in sackcloth" [Revelation 11:3] [Revelation 11:2 tells of the same time frame when Jerusalem will be tread under foot for 42 months]

>Example: "And the dead bodies of the O.T and the N.T shall lie in the streets of the great city [Jerusalem] which is called Sodom and Egypt where also our Lord was crucified

OK, let's assume for the time being that the above is the correct understanding. What follows from this view?

What is being said?

[Lysimachus]

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. Rev.11:4.

Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” Zec. 4:14.

Ones ~ 1121 ben bane from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name).

This ONES are human beings not inanimate objects. There was also no Old Testament or New Testament when the prophecy in Zechariah was given.

The Two Witnesses cannot be the OT and the NT, they are two human beings who are alive at the appointed time of the end.

The reason it is called "ones", is because it will be people vindicating the Old and New Testaments. It was people who were proclaiming the Old and New Testaments during the French Revolution.

But clearly, do not argue with the fact that Lampstands and Olive trees are not people.

Elijah represents the spirit New Testament (represented through John the Baptist), and Moses represents the spirit of the Old Testament.

God's last-day people will reflect these two characteristics, as they illuminate the Word of God.

This is a future application this prophecy.

Notice that in Malachi 4:5,6, God says "I will send you Elijah".

Yet Jesus in Matthew 17:12 says: "But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

Was it Elijah that came? Or was it John the Baptist who came in the SPIRIT of Elijah?

You know the answer to this.

God's last-day people will come in the Spirit of Elijah and Moses, and will illuminate God's Word. We will be FORERUNNERS of Christ's Second Advent.

Some of us will be translated (like Elijah was) at the Second Advent, and some of us will die and be resurrected (like Moses was).

Hence, we see perfectly here why the Word of God are these two witnesses. But it is this Word that is torched by God's people.

[cheddar]

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. Rev.11:4.

Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” Zec. 4:14.

Ones ~ 1121 ben bane from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name).

This ONES are human beings not inanimate objects. There was also no Old Testament or New Testament when the prophecy in Zechariah was given.

The Two Witnesses cannot be the OT and the NT, they are two human beings who are alive at the appointed time of the end.

I never even thought of that - there was no NT in the days of Zechariah. Another nail in the French coffin.

[Truth Files]

"What is being said?"

>Your question is too general .... be more specific

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. Rev.11:4.

Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” Zec. 4:14.

Ones ~ 1121 ben bane from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name).

This ONES are human beings not inanimate objects. There was also no Old Testament or New Testament when the prophecy in Zechariah was given.

The Two Witnesses cannot be the OT and the NT, they are two human beings who are alive at the appointed time of the end.

I never even thought of that - there was no NT in the days of Zechariah. Another nail in the French coffin.

Yup, and a downright denial of God's prophet too.

The French Revolution has everything to do with the Two Witnesses, but the spirit of these two witnesses will be repeated again through the 144,000 and God's end-time messengers, who will come in the Spirit of Elijah. Some will die like Moses and be resurrected.

They are actually the "ones" carrying the Lamps. The ones carrying the lamps (like the wise virgins) are the "ones". But the lamps themselves are the "Word of God".

Put on your Spiritual Goggles, and you will see the beautify of the symbolism.

Only those wearing carnal glasses, who thing literalistically, and cannot discern spiritual things, will literalize these principles like the Left Behind Series.

And I'm sorry Cheddar, and I'm sorry Truth Files, and JASD, we aren't going to see two witnesses walking through Jerusalem shooting out fire out of their mouths. This is STUPID LEFT BEHIND JUNK, and you better GIVE IT UP. Or you will be deceived and deluded along with all the others who love to imagine these fairy tales.

[Truth Files]

"The French Revolution has everything to do with the Two Witnesses"

>What a gas .... prove it [i know where this idea came from]

>Show the French revolution in scripture and explain

>I suppose that you can find the crusades, the inquisitions, world war I, world war II, and the holocaust [or maybe you think this one is a lie like the Iranians tell us]

..... none of these things are in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets .... none

[Musicman1228]

Lysimachus,

So you are saying that some things are figurative or have a spiritual application in prophecy and others are literal, and it is up to the individual to decide which is which? I think not.

The fire that comes out of the mouths of the the two witnesses is the WORDS of GOD, those words consume all lies placed before them. You have made the false assumption that the Two Witnesses have spiritual application, forgetting that unless the prophecy defines that application they MUST be literal. The Two Witnesses are NOT defined in this or any other prophecy as being the OT or the NT, therefore they must be real people (just as Nebuchadnezza's image defined REAL kingdoms of the earth).

And just WHO is God's prophet that you mentioned above. Is it John who wrote Revelation, or Daniel? Those are the only two end time prophets to whom Jesus gave specific information about the time of the end, other than His own end time prophecies. Jesus never told His own disciples that there would be a true prophet at the appointed time of the end, He only said there would be FALSE prophets that would 'lead many astray' (Matt. 24: 4-5,11, Rev. 2:20).

Jesus told Daniel to 'go your way' and "sleep until the end and rise to your reward", and did not reveal the meaning of the prophecy even to His good friend. Jesus did not tell Daniel there would be another prophet that would take his place at the appointed time of the end.

Jesus did not tell John in Revelation that there would be another end time prophet that would take his place and give 'new' information about what was to 'shortly take place' (Rev.1:3). Jesus told John that it would be the prophecy of THIS book that would define what was to happen and when, and that severe punishment would come to anyone that added to or took anything away from the prophecy in the book of Revelation (Rev.22:18-19). The information in Daniel and Revelation about the end of time is just what Jesus needs us to understand to know what is to come. However, ONLY the wise will understand (Dan. 12:10).

Jesus told His Bondservants that THEY would know the what and when of His return because of the information He gave them in Revelation, for the 'time is short'. Jesus did not need another prophet to explain to His bondservants the understanding of prophecy; if He did then He failed to complete the work His Father sent Him to do, which was to testify to the truth (John 18:37).

[Dr. Rich]

Marcos S., can I please ask you where you bought your 'spiritual glasses' from?

"Blessed (sanctified) is he (one person only) who READS and those (more than one person who then hear it from the ONE person has read) who hear the words of the prophecy (one complete prophecy), and HEED (understand fully), the things which are written in it (the ONE complete prophecy), for the TIME is NEAR (why--because only those bondservants (144k) living in the last generation will have anything to do with this prophecy). (Please read Rev. 1:1-3)

What this clearly says is that 1) only the bondservants who are the 144k living in the last generation, and 2) will understand and 3) they understand because of the ONE Bondservant who is left in charge of the Master's house and teaching the other bondservants at the time Jesus comes like a thief. (See. Matthew 17:11 and 24:45)

If Jesus meant for this to be for everyone, then it would not have been written specifically like it had been done.

Here is the thing: Jesus clearly didn't want anyone (yes anyone) who is following a gospel other than what HE taught. Jesus taught the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, not a gospel just about Him. In fact, He had this same problem with those Jewish Teachers during His time on earth and it was for this reason Jesus taught in parables, (See Matt. 13:10-13)

[John317]

"Blessed (sanctified) is he

"Blessed" doesn't mean "sanctified."

It means "happy" or joyful. So it is saying that those who hear the prophecy and obey it will be supremely happy that they did so.

"Sanctified" means to be "holy," which comes from an entirely different Greek word and concept.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

"Blessed (sanctified) is he (one person only) who READS and those (more than one person who then hear it from the ONE person has read) who hear the words of the prophecy (one complete prophecy), and HEED (understand fully), the things which are written in it (the ONE complete prophecy), for the TIME is NEAR (why--because only those bondservants (144k) living in the last generation will have anything to do with this prophecy). (Please read Rev. 1:1-3)

John the Beloved wrote "The time is near" and he meant it was "near" at the time he wrote those words, i.e., the end of the first century AD.

"Is" of course is a present tense verb.

The time that John speaks of is kairos, not chronos.

What causes you to believe that only the 144, 000 would be able to understand the prophecy?

Wasn't John instructed to have the letters and the prophecy sent to contemporary churches in Asia Minor (i.e, modern Turkey)?

There is nothing in the book of Revelation indicating that only the last generation will have anything to do with the prophecy. The Apocalypse, unlike the book of Daniel, was never sealed but has always been an unvieled book. It is primarily a revelation of Jesus Christ.

The blessing (v. 3) is for sincere and obedient Christians of all ages, not merely for those living in the end-times.