The 1260 Year Interpretation of Protestantism

[12tribes]

I agree that Uriah smith did not have all the light he has turkey as the king of the north but I do not think it is turkey but Islam, I do not agree with what he said on the daily either cause he said it was pagan Rome but that is not what the Bible says.

[Lysimachus]

Islam are the power north of Jerusalem Daniel 11 is literal language

Quote:

Ezekiel 5:5

(5) Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.

Daniel 8:9

(9) And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The opposite of south east is north west, The Papacy came from north west of Jerusalem while Islam is north, they are all over the middle east.

I'll have to keep studying it, but I can't say I'm convinced. When Tim Roosenberg explained it, it made all the sense in the world that Islam is the King of the South. When the Crusades invaded Jerusalem, they came from the North. Islam's invasions did originate from the south, although later, after they conquered northern territories, then of course, naturally, began penetrating down into the south again.

[12tribes]

I'll have to keep studying it, but I can't say I'm convinced. When Tim Roosenberg explained it, it made all the sense in the world that Islam is the King of the South. When the Crusades invaded Jerusalem, they came from the North. Islam's invasions did originate from the south, although later, after they conquered northern territories, then of course, naturally, began penetrating down into the south again.

Here is a site with some info

Islam in Prophecy

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

I'll have to keep studying it, but I can't say I'm convinced. When Tim Roosenberg explained it, it made all the sense in the world that Islam is the King of the South. When the Crusades invaded Jerusalem, they came from the North. Islam's invasions did originate from the south, although later, after they conquered northern territories, then of course, naturally, began penetrating down into the south again.

Here is a site with some info

Islam in Prophecy

Thanks much. Although I have read about all of that, no worries. I know Steve Wohlberg personally. We're good friends. I've read most of his books, read most of his articles, and watched most of his videos. I've given out like 6 End Time Delusions to people. Great ministry with great resources indeed!

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

I too am baffled. I am baffled by those who claim to be God's remnant yet are too proud and conceited to admit when they have been wrong. I am baffled by those who claim to be God's remnant and think they have nothing more to learn. I am baffled by those who claim to be God's remnant and find it fantastic that even their "pillars" might just be wrong and so refuse to entertain anything that would challenge those "pillars" even to the point of "burning them at the stake" if only in figure and not in reality.

Ya! I sure am baffled.

And I am more than baffled how you can dare have the audacity to even entertain the thought that "the more to learn" SDA's need means "giving up every pillar of their faith".

You want SDA's to:

1. Give up our idea in the day-for-year principle. This means giving up every other prophetic pillar that made Adventism what it is to day. This is sheer insanity.

2. Give up the idea that the Beast Power of Daniel and Revelation is realized in the Papal System

3. Give up the Sanctuary Doctrine, 2300 years, and Investigative Judgment that commenced in 1844.

4. Give up almost everything that Adventism has been built on.

5. Give up ALL the solid foundations of the prophetic time periods understood by the Reformers--even the 70 weeks!

As we can see Miz3, your expectations have not only gone too far, they are simply unrealistic. In fact, your expectations and many of your posts reveal that you are a highly willfully ignorant individual.

I am baffled why you do not want to know the Truth?

These so-called pillars are more important to you than the Truth.

I am baffled that clear Biblical Truth means nothing to you and that your erroneous theories are worth clinging to in the face of clear Bible statements to the contrary.

[Lysimachus]

I am baffled why you do not want to know the Truth?

These so-called pillars are more important to you than the Truth.

I am baffled that clear Biblical Truth means nothing to you and that your erroneous theories are worth clinging to in the face of clear Bible statements to the contrary.

Because these pillars are not "so-called". I am fully persuaded, by the Word of God alone, that these pillars ARE the truth. And I'm even more fully persuaded that it is not just my opinion. It is a fact.

You have provided NOTHING from the Scriptures that reveal to the contrary. Such scriptures are nothing more than the product of the figment of your twisted imagination.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: miz3

I am baffled why you do not want to know the Truth?

These so-called pillars are more important to you than the Truth.

I am baffled that clear Biblical Truth means nothing to you and that your erroneous theories are worth clinging to in the face of clear Bible statements to the contrary.

Because these pillars are not "so-called". I am fully persuaded, by the Word of God alone, that these pillars ARE the truth. And I'm even more fully persuaded that it is not just my opinion. It is a fact.

You have provided NOTHING from the Scriptures that reveal to the contrary. Such scriptures are nothing more than the product of the figment of your twisted imagination.

To him it is truth cause he makes it fit, but if we let the Bible speak we get the pillars of our faith.

[miz3]

Islam are the power north of Jerusalem Daniel 11 is literal language

Quote:

Ezekiel 5:5

(5) Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.

Daniel 8:9

(9) And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The opposite of south east is north west, The Papacy came from north west of Jerusalem while Islam is north, they are all over the middle east.

[12tribes]

All this confusion!

You cannot get your act together. Is it the "king of the north" or the king of the northeast"? Is it really Jerusalem or is Jerusalem just symbol of all those "remnant" (SDA)? Is this part "literal" or is this part "symbolic"?

Amazing!

All this energy and time in these spurious complexities and in the end you come to the point where you have to admit that "not all the tees are crossed and all eyes are not dotted.

In the end it is revealed you don't know what you are talking about because it could be this or it could be that. Could it actually be that what you are "concocting" is indeed not Biblical?

And then you lambaste me over your spurious and erroneous "year/day".

Boy is that a Babylon!

You make it complicated cause you do not want to believe you want your own theories which are more complicated and confusing and make no sense

[skyblue888]

Islam was the king of the south during the fifth and sixth trumpets from 1299 to 1840 while the papacy was the king of the north. Nothing to do with geography though. During that time the papacy suffered greatly at the hand of the Turks. The fifth and sixth trumpets were judgments that fell upon papal Rome at the hand of the Turks for her rejection of the Gospel and her persecution of the true disciples of Christ.

The sixth trumpet ended on the 11th of August 1840 as shown in The Great Controversy, p.334,335.

The Egyptians were a very "religious" people and yet the Bible identifies Pharaoh as an atheist who said, "Who is Jehovah that I should obey Him?"

Islam appears to be very religious as Egypt did but when it comes to beleiving in the true God, they are unbelievers, atheists and thus they represent the king of the south which is just another power coming from the bottomless pit. When the papacy shall regain her supremacy (the eight head of Rev.17) with the help of Apostate Protestantism (the seventh head of Rev.17) Islam will be completely subdued.

sky

[Lysimachus]

All this confusion!

You cannot get your act together. Is it the "king of the north" or the king of the northeast"? Is it really Jerusalem or is Jerusalem just symbol of all those "remnant" (SDA)? Is this part "literal" or is this part "symbolic"?

Amazing!

[John317]

I am baffled why you do not want to know the Truth?

You don't know that he does not want to know the truth.

Originally Posted By: miz3

These so-called pillars are more important to you than the Truth.

What we're affirming here is that "the pillars of our faith" are Bible truth.

Originally Posted By: miz3

I am baffled that clear Biblical Truth means nothing to you and that your erroneous theories are worth clinging to in the face of clear Bible statements to the contrary.

That would be like our telling you that clear Biblical truth clearly supports the pillars of our faith, and that if you don't agree with us, it is because you have no interest in the Truth. It would be wrong to jump to that conclusion.

Each person must make up his own mind.

We can explain our viewpoint and give Bible evidence and arguments in the Scripture, but after that, we have to let people decide in their own minds, leaving it between them and God.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

All this confusion!

You cannot get your act together. Is it the "king of the north" or the king of the northeast"? Is it really Jerusalem or is Jerusalem just symbol of all those "remnant" (SDA)? Is this part "literal" or is this part "symbolic"?

Amazing!

All this energy and time in these spurious complexities and in the end you come to the point where you have to admit that "not all the tees are crossed and all eyes are not dotted.

In the end it is revealed you don't know what you are talking about because it could be this or it could be that. Could it actually be that what you are "concocting" is indeed not Biblical?

And then you lambaste me over your spurious and erroneous "year/day".

Boy is that a Babylon!

You make it complicated cause you do not want to believe you want your own theories which are more complicated and confusing and make no sense

Please explain how my "theories as you put it" are complicated. Please cite specifically what I have said on this current subject that is so complex. Be specific. In other words PROVE your allegation.

[John317]

...Please explain how my "theories as you put it" are complicated. Please cite specifically what I have said on this current subject that is so complex. Be specific. In other words PROVE your allegation.

Prove it to whom?

Things can be proved and yet not be believed by everyone.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

I agree with both of you and you know what, it is said that this king of the north would enter the "glorious land" (adventist church) by infiltration of course, and deceive many by compromising the pillars of our faith and by making of none effect the testimonies of God's Spirit.

sky

I do not agree that the glorious land is the SDA church cause Daniel 11 is not symbolic language it is literal, the glorious land is Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:16

(16) O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Tribes, I have to disagree with you this time. Daniel 11:40-45 has nothing to do with Jerusalem of old. Verse 40 is the time of the end when the papacy received its deadly wound at the hand of atheistic France in 1798.

This wound is going to be healed and the papacy, the king of the north, will regain its supremacy. "He will (again) plant the taberncales of his palaces between the seas and the glorious holy mountain." Dan.11:45. In other words, a time is coming when this statement will again be fulfilled: "He has set up his throne between God and man, to appropriate the adoration that belongs to God alone."" E.G. White, 7B.C.1119.

In verse 41 we read, "He shall also enter the glorious land"

In the old Testament, yes, Jerusalem was the glorious land, at least part of it. But after 1798 the "glorious land" is where the truth of God is and that is in the Advent Movement.

As the enemy succeeded in entering Jerusalem of old, he has succeeded in enteting Modern Israel.

"The kings of the earth, and all the inhabitants of the world, would not have believed that the adversary and the enemy should have entered into the gates of Jerusalem." Lamentations 4:12.

This prophecy has a double significance.

So the papacy will rule the world again but for a short time. At the time of the fifth plague, the eyes of the world will be opened and all who had supported the king of the north will then withdraw their support and the king of the north will have none to help him at that time. Dan.11:45.

All who will have been deceived by him will turn against him and bring him down to the pit as shown in Revelation 17.

sky

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

All this confusion!

You cannot get your act together. Is it the "king of the north" or the king of the northeast"? Is it really Jerusalem or is Jerusalem just symbol of all those "remnant" (SDA)? Is this part "literal" or is this part "symbolic"?

Amazing!

Jerusalem is a symbol of God's people. If SDA's happen to meet the characteristics of God's remnant, than so be it. It's not that SDA's are "the" remnant. It's that true SDA's choose to be a part of that "remnant". God's remnant has characteristics. When SDA's meet these characteristics, you accuse them of only attributing the remnant to SDA, but the fact is, it is only because true SDA's happen to be the only ones that recognize the characteristics and adapt to them. Then, people like you come along, and say "see! cult! You think you're the only ones!" Sorry buddy, but God's remnant will all be of the same mind, and the world will accuse them of claiming to be the "only ones".

Quote:

All this energy and time in these spurious complexities and in the end you come to the point where you have to admit that "not all the tees are crossed and all eyes are not dotted.

Nobody has claimed that all the Tees are crossed and all eyes are dotted. The Bible is a book of code, and there are still a few codes left that are yet to be cracked.

But Adventism has cracked more of the Bible than any other Christian system on the planet. We're at least working out what remains. You on the other hand wish to leave everything "spurious, and cannot be understood".

Quote:

In the end it is revealed you don't know what you are talking about because it could be this or it could be that. Could it actually be that what you are "concocting" is indeed not Biblical?

And then you lambaste me over your spurious and erroneous "year/day".

Boy is that a Babylon!

We're talking about Daniel 11 here miz3. There is no official position on the kings of the north and south in Daniel 11 for your information. In case you forgot. Exaggerations won't get you anywhere.

This is Babylon? Talk about calling the kettle black! You accuse us of not being able to come to an agreement on Daniel 11. Question: Have you??? Do you understand Daniel 11? Might I remind you that it is not just "Daniel 11" that you consider "spurious" and "not understandable". But you pretty much apply this to the WHOLE Bible.

Talk about Babylon!!

1. Could you please list the all the Characteristics of the Remnant in beside each characteristic tell me how the SDA Church meets that Characteristic?

2. Again, I tell you that the "year/day" is not a broad across the board principle. Thus, your theories are all in vain.

3. If you have Daniel seven, eight, nine, and ten figured out Daniel eleven and twelve follow those same issues. You should have it figured out. The fact that you don't have Daniel eleven and twelve figured out tells you and all the rest of us that you don't really have Daniel seven to ten figured out correctly either.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

...Please explain how my "theories as you put it" are complicated. Please cite specifically what I have said on this current subject that is so complex. Be specific. In other words PROVE your allegation.

Prove it to whom?

Things can be proved and yet not be believed by everyone.

I am only following you John317. You ask others to "prove" it. Why can't I.

Does this mean that when John317 asks people to "prove it" it actually a meaningless question?

[Lysimachus]

1. Could you please list the all the Characteristics of the Remnant in beside each characteristic tell me how the SDA Church meets that Characteristic?

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: miz3

...Please explain how my "theories as you put it" are complicated. Please cite specifically what I have said on this current subject that is so complex. Be specific. In other words PROVE your allegation.

Prove it to whom?

Things can be proved and yet not be believed by everyone.

Amen good answer

[12tribes]

Tribes, I have to disagree with you this time. Daniel 11:40-45 has nothing to do with Jerusalem of old. Verse 40 is the time of the end when the papacy received its deadly wound at the hand of atheistic France in 1798.

This wound is going to be healed and the papacy, the king of the north, will regain its supremacy. "He will (again) plant the taberncales of his palaces between the seas and the glorious holy mountain." Dan.11:45. In other words, a time is coming when this statement will again be fulfilled: "He has set up his throne between God and man, to appropriate the adoration that belongs to God alone."" E.G. White, 7B.C.1119.

In verse 41 we read, "He shall also enter the glorious land"

In the old Testament, yes, Jerusalem was the glorious land, at least part of it. But after 1798 the "glorious land" is where the truth of God is and that is in the Advent Movement.

As the enemy succeeded in entering Jerusalem of old, he has succeeded in enteting Modern Israel.

"The kings of the earth, and all the inhabitants of the world, would not have believed that the adversary and the enemy should have entered into the gates of Jerusalem." Lamentations 4:12.

This prophecy has a double significance.

So the papacy will rule the world again but for a short time. At the time of the fifth plague, the eyes of the world will be opened and all who had supported the king of the north will then withdraw their support and the king of the north will have none to help him at that time. Dan.11:45.

All who will have been deceived by him will turn against him and bring him down to the pit as shown in Revelation 17.

sky

The issue on the king of the north is a minor point as long as we agree on the major points

[John317]

...Please explain how my "theories as you put it" are complicated. Please cite specifically what I have said on this current subject that is so complex. Be specific. In other words PROVE your allegation.

Originally Posted By: John3:17

Prove it to whom?

Things can be proved and yet not be believed by everyone.

Originally Posted By: miz3

I am only following you John317. You ask others to "prove" it. Why can't I.

Does this mean that when John317 asks people to "prove it" it actually a meaningless question?

The thing is you are asking people to prove something that has already been proved over and over again.

It's like your asking people to prove that humans are free moral agents, or that the day-for-a-year principle is in the Bible, or that the 1260 day prophecy is a valid interpretation, or that the earth-beast of Rev. 13 is the papacy, etc.

It is not as if these things have not been well established by Bible and historical evidence.

Just because you or I don't believe those things is no evidence that they are not true. You could argue with a teacher in math that you cant' see how a math formula is true, and ask him to prove it over and over, but that wouldn't show that the formula is wrong. It just means that for whatever reason, some people don't get it and won't ever get it.

After a while, when the evidence and arguments have been rehashed till people are blue in the face, it just makes sense to say, Let everyone make up his own mind as to the truth.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Tribes, I have to disagree with you this time. Daniel 11:40-45 has nothing to do with Jerusalem of old. Verse 40 is the time of the end when the papacy received its deadly wound at the hand of atheistic France in 1798.

This wound is going to be healed and the papacy, the king of the north, will regain its supremacy. "He will (again) plant the taberncales of his palaces between the seas and the glorious holy mountain." Dan.11:45. In other words, a time is coming when this statement will again be fulfilled: "He has set up his throne between God and man, to appropriate the adoration that belongs to God alone."" E.G. White, 7B.C.1119.

In verse 41 we read, "He shall also enter the glorious land"

In the old Testament, yes, Jerusalem was the glorious land, at least part of it. But after 1798 the "glorious land" is where the truth of God is and that is in the Advent Movement.

As the enemy succeeded in entering Jerusalem of old, he has succeeded in enteting Modern Israel.

"The kings of the earth, and all the inhabitants of the world, would not have believed that the adversary and the enemy should have entered into the gates of Jerusalem." Lamentations 4:12.

This prophecy has a double significance.

So the papacy will rule the world again but for a short time. At the time of the fifth plague, the eyes of the world will be opened and all who had supported the king of the north will then withdraw their support and the king of the north will have none to help him at that time. Dan.11:45.

All who will have been deceived by him will turn against him and bring him down to the pit as shown in Revelation 17.

sky

The issue on the king of the north is a minor point as long as we agree on the major points

What do you consider to be the minor points as compared to the major ones?

[12tribes]

What do you consider to be the minor points as compared to the major ones?

Major points are salvation issues minor points are not

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

1. Could you please list the all the Characteristics of the Remnant in beside each characteristic tell me how the SDA Church meets that Characteristic?

Request denied. I've seen that these characteristics have been provided you countless times in these forums, and you trash every explanation given to you and make a sheer mockery of them. I would be wasting my time.

Quote:

2. Again, I tell you that the "year/day" is not a broad across the board principle. Thus, your theories are all in vain.

I've elaborated far more than I should have on the day/year principle. You continue to say you disagree, but not once have you addressed the major arguments I have provided that substantiate it.

Quote:

3. If you have Daniel seven, eight, nine, and ten figured out Daniel eleven and twelve follow those same issues. You should have it figured out. The fact that you don't have Daniel eleven and twelve figured out tells you and all the rest of us that you don't really have Daniel seven to ten figured out correctly either.

Really? And what makes you think this is how it works? Does Miz3 Chapter 4 verse 3 tell you this is so?

1. I'll take it that you cannot systematically do this! Maybe it is because if you do this we will see that the holes in your assertions are most glaring.

Can you show that these characteristics have been shown me "countless" times or are you unable to PROVE THIS?

2. Sorry you have indeed wasted time because you believe in this fictitious year/day thing. Your erroneous assertion in this regard has caused you to invest countless hours on complexities that are just made up fantasy.

3. Does this mean that you think Daniel eleven and twelve are talking about something entirely different and unconnected to the other parts of Daniel. You connect all the other parts of Daniel in "one so-called cohesive whole" and now you are asserting that Daniel eleven and twelve are so mysterious that they have no connection to your "puzzle"?

Can you not find any "historical" parallels to what Daniel eleven and twelve are saying? You use this "historicist" tactic for all the rest of Daniel. Why doesn't Daniel eleven and twelve lend itself to your "historicist" interpretation? Could it be that the "historicist" view is lacking in validity to actually interpret the Bible (especially Daniel and Revelation)?

[Lysimachus]

Let's start with the day-year principle miz3.

How do you get around applying the day/year principle to the 70 weeks?