If I May

[M. T. Cross]

My point in this thread - it seems to have gotten a bit off of it is this.

Go door to door, do what you believe is right. But do it without the negativity, do it without the condemnation. Live the example, CELEBRATE your truth!!!! This is something I have so seldom seen in the Adventist community!

When I was a child there was this lady that went to our local church. She was old when I was little - I think she lived to almost 90. Anyway, she became my solice over the years in the church. I hated going, cause all I ever heard was how rotten I was and how I was breaking my parents heart etc etc. Now however Mrs. Rafuse would greet me every Saturday with a hug. She would tousle my long hair and then every potluck she would sit with me and ask me about school and my life. Never once did she ever tell me how I was doing it all wrong. Never once did she condemn or judge me. That lady had the light of God, the Divine, whatever you want to call it shining through her. As I said - I read the bible over and over - I did it to find what she had. I did not find it there, but I am closer than I ever was to finding that peace. But my point is that I only attended church one time after she passed away. Cause it was that kind of beauty that made it worth going, and when she was gone that light was as well.

You can quote Bible verses till you are blue in the face. It means nothing if you are not a living shining example of what you are preaching.

[Neil D]

Go door to door, do what you believe is right. But do it without the negativity, do it without the condemnation. Live the example, CELEBRATE your truth!!!! This is something I have so seldom seen in the Adventist community!!

[Tongue firmly planted into the cheek mode-on]

Oh, we can't do that EC...Why that would ruin our disposition of being civilized. And, as you so well know, Civilization must be negetive as it must scratch and claw it's way to the top. We can't have it handed to us in such a fun way as to be seen as "friendly"!!! Oh heavens , no...no! No! A thousand times NO!!!! We need to be more like the world/civilization. Why if we appeared friendly, and celebrate the truth of our message, why people would be attracted to us and then there would be a lot of people come join us..Jealousy would ensue and then the persecutions would begin and then all the world would go into the proverbial handbasket...and we can't have that...right?

[John317]

...Go door to door, do what you believe is right. But do it without the negativity, do it without the condemnation. Live the example, CELEBRATE your truth!!!! This is something I have so seldom seen in the Adventist community!

You have some very good and important ideas here, EC.

I've been associated with the SDA church almost all of my life and have seen a lot of bad things, having spent most of that time in a community that is 50% or so SDA or ex-SDA. Yet despite all those negative things that I saw and even participated in as a teen-ager and young adult, my memories of the SDA church are wonderful. I have seen a lot of "celebration" of the truth. Of course, what we see depends to a great extent on our families and friends, etc., and also depends on what we are looking for. People generally find what they're looking for.

I think the truth is that while we don't want to be constantly condemning, we need to be able to condemn sin and wrong when we see it. I would hate to see SDAs get to the point where they're afraid to condemn what's wrong. If we did that, we would not be doing what God has called us to do. We need to know how to do it in love, yes, but let's never think that love never condemns wrong. Love both upholds right and condemns wrong. If we prayefully imitate Christ as our role-model, we can never go wrong.

[John317]

Thanks for that. It's interesting. I have seen similar things.

[John317]

...Go door to door, do what you believe is right. But do it without the negativity, do it without the condemnation.

You are definitely right!

One thing you can be sure of is that people going to door with a condemning or negative attitude are going to be very, very unwelcome.

[ClubV12]

I'm so grateful the Lord led me to such a loving church. I hear about the lack of love Adventists seem to have on this forum, a lot actually. I suppose one might see the same kind of comments on any given christian web site, unless there ONLY message is "peace and love". Tried that peace and love thing in the 70's,,, didn't work out so well, still found plenty of negative feelings, weird relationships, drugs, turns out free love wasn't so free after all.

I see it HERE, but I DON'T see it at my church!! Thats a fact, I've never met a more loving bunch of folks, truly. I was looking at the people initially, but I stopped doing that, kind folks that they are. I came to realize that we can only look at Jesus for what our standard should be.

Jesus is love and mercy, but He is also Judgment. He, and I thank God for this, is not going to offer to anyone eternal life that is grumbling and complaining, about anything. Including a lack of love, He is the example, take your eyes off Him and you will surely find all kinds of bad stuff to hang your doubts on, your unbelief.

I've been to court a few times (yeah, my background aint pretty), the Judge only has one question when you show up, guilty, or not. There is no conversation about "the devil made me do it", the people were haters, I didn't find the love, only one question. There is only one answer for all of us, guilty. There is only one penalty, eternal separation from the love we so desperately searched for, and knowingly rejected.

But the court has appointed an adversary for us, One who will plead our case and I gaurentee you He will win it. If we will accept His offer. We ARE condemed, thats reality, thats the straight truth. There is no excuse that can be offered, nor will it be asked for. He is a just and merciful God, this strange thing He does, dealing at last with the mystery of sin, He takes no delight in it. But the happiness of all created beings throughout eternity is at stake, that happiness will never be placed in jeopardy again. The solution must be final and eternal, this experiment of sin will be forever, over. God WILL be vindicated and every knee shall bow in acknowledgment of His great love.

Accept His offer, give your will to Him, trust Him, He loves you, forget about the people, look to Him as your only hope. You can have that acceptance right now, by faith, in His righteousness, offered freely, let Him in your life. He WILL finish the work he's started in you.

[John317]

[Pockey]

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Why do I not consider myself a follower or disciple? Because I think there are many amazing messages. I think Buddah had one, I think there are many in Nordic lore, mostly in the Havamal.

And yet they all have tombs filled with their remains. Jesus' tomb is empty, and he has this promise for those who follow Him.

"Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was."Romans 6:5 NLT

Quote:

IMO there are a lot of truths that can be found in many of the belief systems but I don't think any ONE has them all.

One has a choice to believe or not. What are your benefits for the future by holding on to unbelief?

"Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."John 14:6 NLT

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."John 10:1 NKJV

"So Jesus said again, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that I Myself am the Door for the sheep."John 10:7 AMP

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Cause it was that kind of beauty that made it worth going, and when she was gone that light was as well.

You make a good point. However I've found the world or other Adventists are not going to change for me. Therefore it is up to me to be the light whether anyone else wants to be or not.

I have found that God wishes me to be that light, and when I am, then others light up with me.

"A man who has friends must himself be friendly..."Proverbs 18:24 NKJV

God blesses!

[Gerr]

You truly KNOW you have the truth. That the SDA church is the real message of Jesus and your God. So why spend so much time worrying about what the Jews, Muslims, Catholics and other protestants, and of course us Pagans are doing?

Don't you think a physician has a DUTY to to tell sick people how to live healthfully? or a teacher to enlighten ignorant people?

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

You truly KNOW you have the truth. That the SDA church is the real message of Jesus and your God. So why spend so much time worrying about what the Jews, Muslims, Catholics and other protestants, and of course us Pagans are doing?

Don't you think a physician has a DUTY to to tell sick people how to live healthfully? or a teacher to enlighten ignorant people?

That is like the exact opposite of what I was saying.

[M. T. Cross]

"I think there are many amazing messages."

Sure, there are, but there is only one name whereby you can be saved from that coming volcano, Jesus Christ.

Ok, this takes this in a whole new direction but tell me this.

The Buddhist will tell me his way is the one that will save me from it, the Muslim will tell me that his way will, the Hindu that his way is the way, the Wiccan that his will, the Asatru that his will, the Kemetic his, the Hellenic his will, and my religion will tell me I should have noticed the mountain was volcanic and I should have not built a house on it in the first place.

So tell me this - what is it that makes the way of Jesus more valid than all those other ones?

[ClubV12]

You won't know, of yourself you cannot know, but the Lord will reveal Himself to those who seek Him. To those who seek this knowledge as for hidden treasure, as a man preparing to run an olympic race, as one fighting for his very life, it will be revealed.

This is not something that can be determined through a casual reading of the bible or a quick browsing of an internet forum. Going to church won't reveal the deep truth, being a member of some organization won't reveal the deep truth. Not the truth that can save to the uttermost. Only those who "afflict" their souls will really find it. Affliction? A deep heart searching, an intense interest in the process, wanting to know what secret evils are in your heart, evils you don't even know exist. A desire to root out all of it. Without this, even good upstanding Seventh-day Adventists will miss the mark, we must be personally, deeply involved and actively interested in the process.

As the bible explains the process on the day of atonement, when the people were to afflict their souls, confessing every known and seeking to know every unknown sin in their lives. WE, right now, TODAY, are living in the final day of atonement. There is no time to loose, all of us must do a thourough searching of the heart and dig for that truth.

This is how you will know.

[M. T. Cross]

Is that what you would tell someone that you want to give your faith a good try when they have never heard of it?

I'm sorry Club but that was like a politian answer. It poked at the question but did not answer it.

That is what your faith teaches. But why should I believe that over what those other faiths teach? What if I do all that and I find myself wanting to worship Kali, because at the end of all that deep soul searching affliction I find she is the one that holds the answers?

[M. T. Cross]

As the bible explains

What makes the Bible more valid than other religious or spiritual writings?

Please before you answer that with a blanket "cause God inspired it" lets bear in mind that many other religious writings are considered by their followers to be divinely inspired as well. Some them actually make more sense than the Bible as well.

[ClubV12]

This is what EVERY faith worth considering teaches! Some base it on works, which as Martin Luther discovered, was not the way. Some base it entirely on faith, the other side on the ditch.

No matter what your faith, ALL MEN have a measure of it, whether they have heard the name Jesus or not. God has placed within each man's heart a fundamental knowledge of good and evil. For those who are seeking to grow the "good", you will find your way.

[M. T. Cross]

This is what EVERY faith worth considering teaches! Some base it on works, which as Martin Luther discovered, was not the way. Some base it entirely on faith, the other side on the ditch.

No matter what your faith, ALL MEN have a measure of it, whether they have heard the name Jesus or not. God has placed within each man's heart a fundamental knowledge of good and evil. For those who are seeking to grow the "good", you will find your way.

Ok lets look at that. I agree - within each of us is the fundamental knowledge of good and evil.

Some of the best people I know, they strive for good, they strive for the betterment of their lives, how they treat others, how they teach their children to live. They are shocked and disgusted with the evils of this world. They gather together that their fellowship might bring them closer to doing good on this earth. BTW they worship Odin, Tyr, and Thor. Are they doomed to hell?

But you still have not really answered my question.

[ClubV12]

I won't judge even the "heathen" in the jungle who have never heard of Christ or the bible, but God will, He knows their heart. For a christian leading a "nice life" is not enough, you cannot "work" your way to heaven.

But let us dispense with these hypothetical friends of yours and deal with the real issue, YOUR salvation. You have been blessed with a knowledge of the Saviour, Jesus Christ. For YOU, that is the only name given among men whereby YOU can be saved. Anything else is just kidding yourself and making excuses.

[M. T. Cross]

I won't judge even the "heathen" in the jungle who have never heard of Christ or the bible, but God will, He knows their heart. For a christian leading a "nice life" is not enough, you cannot "work" your way to heaven.

But let us dispense with these hypothetical friends of yours and deal with the real issue, YOUR salvation. You have been blessed with a knowledge of the Saviour, Jesus Christ. For YOU, that is the only name given among men whereby YOU can be saved. Anything else is just kidding yourself and making excuses.

Well first these friends are not hypothetical. They are a great bunch of people with a strong love for their Gods and their faith. They for the most part grew up in various Christian denominations. They found Christianity lacking.

I am not worried about my salvation really. I am very much at peace with what I believe and what I know. Nor am I trying to change what you believe.

Still you have not answered the questions I asked you.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh and for the record, having read more of the board I would like to assure everyone I am not in fact a Jesuit trying to infiltrate you all

[ClubV12]

Ah, then your friends, like yourself have heard of Jesus and rejected Him?

Then you know, there is only one name, there is only one choice, many people are content with what they think they know. Virtually the entire planet is asleep, and most who ARE in church! That changes nothing, but it does answer the most important question and renders hypothetical questions moot. Do you accept the Jesus Christ as your personal saviour? The ONLY way off this planet alive?

[M. T. Cross]

Ah, then your friends, like yourself have heard of Jesus and rejected Him?

Then you know, there is only one name, there is only one choice, many people are content with what they think they know. Virtually the entire planet is asleep, and most who ARE in church! That changes nothing, but it does answer the most important question and renders hypothetical questions moot. Do you accept the Jesus Christ as your personal saviour? The ONLY way off this planet alive?

[ClubV12]

I'm sorry you didn't see my post directly answering that question. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, whether your a Budhist or a christian. That could be the reason, if you did see my post, you didn't understand it.

Those who are contented with their life, feel that they are OK with all the "good things" they are doing, won't recognize their need of a Saviour. This life is all that they will ever know.

See post #473714 for a response to your question.

[M. T. Cross]

Ok....... not a real direct answer, and there were more questions after but thats ok.