If I May

[ClubV12]

EC, lets cut to the chase, you KNOW Jesus Christ, somewhere along the way something happened. You didn't find the love, you wanted to do your own thing, religion was to harsh/hard, everyone has a reason. When you stand before the bar of God, and you will, what excuse will you offer? It will only be you, no one else, no one to point to, no one to claim as an excuse, Jesus is your only hope. At some point you knew that, now, it's been lost to all kinds of fantasies and hypothesis and heathen religions that worship idols. But you know the truth, don't lie to yourself. You can hide from us, but don't lie to yourself.

Come home, EC, this "good life" you speak of is a fleeting moment. You could have so much more, just consider Jesus...

[M. T. Cross]

EC, lets cut to the chase, you KNOW Jesus Christ, somewhere along the way something happened. You didn't find the love, you wanted to do your own thing, religion was to harsh/hard, everyone has a reason. When you stand before the bar of God, and you will, what excuse will you offer? It will only be you, no one else, no one to point to, no one to claim as an excuse, Jesus is your only hope. At some point you knew that, now, it's been lost to all kinds of fantasies and hypothesis and heathen religions that worship idols. But you know the truth, don't lie to yourself. You can hide from us, but don't lie to yourself.

Come home, EC, this "good life" you speak of is a fleeting moment. You could have so much more, just consider Jesus...

I appreciate your concern, however this reminds so so much of the letter I recieved that also informing me that I was being kicked out of the SDA church. You have no idea what I know and what I don't know.

I will remedy that.

I spent the better part of 30 years trying desperatly for this to make sense to me. In the end - forget the large number of super crappy people I experienced along the way - the theology of it makes very little sense to me. While a lot of what Jesus said rings with a lot of wisdom, the whole theology of the Bible does not. Most of it screams of a really sick twisted cosmic joke in which we are the pawns in a game of chess. I have studied, I have prayed I have wept and I have dug so deep into myself that I had two total breakdowns by the time I was 20. In all that never once did I experience any "grace" from God.

Thats what I know.

Your experience is obvoiusly different. For that I am very happy for you. That was the original point of this thread. I see you guys saying how much you have experienced this grace. Yet no-one seems to be celebrating it.

I found my peace elsewhere.

I almost find it offensive that you call my beliefs fantasies and hypothesis'. Really? Can you prove your faith? No. There is no proving religion. Its an inner knowledge. No matter what the belief its fantasy and hypothesis to those that don't share it.

I almost find it offensive but in the end its not, because I respect that you feel so deeply about it. I still don't think you have done much but talk a lot of circles and avoided directly answering my questions. I find that a bit curious

[Pockey]

Your experience is obvoiusly different. For that I am very happy for you. That was the original point of this thread. I see you guys saying how much you have experienced this grace. Yet no-one seems to be celebrating it.

I found my peace elsewhere.

How would you suggest it to be celebrated? Perhaps the people here do celebrate it. It's hard to tell since this is an internet forum. We don't know how they celebrate God in real life, right?

I am curious where you found your peace? What are your beliefs if I may ask?

[LifeHiscost]

So tell me this - what is it that makes the way of Jesus more valid than all those other ones?

Of all those named, none are alive today. Nor when they were, did they love me so much as to give their life so that I might live, something I didn't deserve from the Christ.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

You won't know, of yourself you cannot know, but the Lord will reveal Himself to those who seek Him. To those who seek this knowledge as for hidden treasure, as a man preparing to run an olympic race, as one fighting for his very life, it will be revealed.

This is not something that can be determined through a casual reading of the bible or a quick browsing of an internet forum. Going to church won't reveal the deep truth, being a member of some organization won't reveal the deep truth. Not the truth that can save to the uttermost. Only those who "afflict" their souls will really find it. Affliction? A deep heart searching, an intense interest in the process, wanting to know what secret evils are in your heart, evils you don't even know exist. A desire to root out all of it. Without this, even good upstanding Seventh-day Adventists will miss the mark, we must be personally, deeply involved and actively interested in the process.

As the bible explains the process on the day of atonement, when the people were to afflict their souls, confessing every known and seeking to know every unknown sin in their lives. WE, right now, TODAY, are living in the final day of atonement. There is no time to loose, all of us must do a thourough searching of the heart and dig for that truth.

This is how you will know.

ClubV12. while there are many things I have agreed with which you have posted before, all of the things you have written above are what has happened, to a point, after I found the assurance of God's love manifested in eternal life, for me. Not before I recognized them.

When I accepted Jesus as Savior these promises became reality.

Although I admit I did not find assurance in the promises until some time later. That does not mean they were not true when I accepted Jesus. The promises were part of His many faceted righteousness, but ascribed to me by justification the moment I accepted Him.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

1 John 5:11 KJV

"Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have God’s Son does not have life.

1 John 5:12 NLT"

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Oh and for the record, having read more of the board I would like to assure everyone I am not in fact a Jesuit trying to infiltrate you all

I just noticed something. The empty cross. While it is true, Jesus no longer hangs on a wooden cross for me. The reality is that He did. He hung where I deserved to hang. And considering there is still no good in me, save His promises, those promises are why my hope is without parallel. The gods that are really no gods at all, have never given their life for anyone.

"“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends."Revelation 3:20 NLT

EmptyCross, if you are willing to invite Him in, the invitation is still there, but the tares will continue to grow side by side with the wheat until Jesus comes to sort them out. One's place in the kingdom is not decided by the unfaithful tares, but can be decided by our unwillingness to continue as a Christian because some have been sell-outs to the Love of Christ. It doesn't seem logical to me to give up the eternal Love from the Son, because some of His children misbehave.

God blesses!

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Your experience is obvoiusly different. For that I am very happy for you. That was the original point of this thread. I see you guys saying how much you have experienced this grace. Yet no-one seems to be celebrating it.

I found my peace elsewhere.

How would you suggest it to be celebrated? Perhaps the people here do celebrate it. It's hard to tell since this is an internet forum. We don't know how they celebrate God in real life, right?

I am curious where you found your peace? What are your beliefs if I may ask?

By showing JOY! I see a ton of bitterness. I really wonder at that. I have seen it outside an internet forum as well.

Where did I find my peace. I found it within. When I came to the conclusion that most of my "demons" where self inflicted, that I had no devil or God to blame, that I had no devil or God to fix them for me. I inflicted them and I could fix them.

What are my beliefs? The long version or the short one.....

My belief is that there are many Gods, many messengers and many streams that lead to the same ocean. That in the end we are all part of a great thing - The One, The Boundless, The Manifest, The Divine - it is called many things in many languages under the guise of many beliefs. I believe that there is good and I believe there is evil. But I do not believe that the source of them is A God or a Devil. I believe that both lie within all of us, and it is our personal responsibility to choose which we are going to manifest in our lives. I believe we are accountable for our actions, that we are responsible to right our wrongs, that we can pray to all the Gods we want for forgiveness and it means nothing without the recognition that we are the only ones that can fix ourselves.

I do not believe in blind faith, I think the only saving we need is from our own ego driven existance. But I don't think that God, any God is going to do that work for us. I think that they will help and guide if we ask, but in the end it it is up to each one of us to get there on our own.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

So tell me this - what is it that makes the way of Jesus more valid than all those other ones?

Of all those named, none are alive today. Nor when they were, did they love me so much as to give their life so that I might live, something I didn't deserve from the Christ.

God blesses!

Odin, Kali, Kernunnos, Mannannan etc are dead? How do you know that? Where are their tombs?

[LifeHiscost]

Odin, Kali, Kernunnos, Mannannan etc are dead? How do you know that? Where are their tombs?

" “LORD God of Israel, there is no God in heaven above or on earth below like You, who keep Your covenant and mercy with Your servants who walk before You with all their hearts."1 Kings 8:23 NKJV

"“ Behold, all souls are Mine;....The soul who sins shall die."Ezekiel 18:3 NKJV

"...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."Romans 3:23 NKJV

God blesses!

[Overaged]

Thing is - if you let it - it will shine through you and then we will all find peace.

I have a "mathematical" equation to demonstrate this. God is BIGGER than us; so if He is in YOU; He will show through.

[LifeHiscost]

That said I do understand that part of your religion is to spread your message.

That isn't his message. That's Jesus' message taken directly from God's Word.

"But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven."Matt 10:33 NKJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

If the person that has berated me for how I raise my kids, the clothes I wear, the food I eat or the Gods i worship comes and tells me that the volcanoe is gonna blow I am not going to listen. But if the person I know does this all differently than me, yet has a bright smile and a good morning for me, is willing to afford me the respect that I am not an idiot comes and tells me the mountain is about to come down - then I will likely listen. Because I see in them some worth and something to respect back.

I agree with your reasoning. If more of us did more things in a way that was more appealing to everyone, we could probably get more listeners. Would there be more that accepted what we had to say? Perhaps. However, Jesus said what He had to say to save mankind. He ended up hanging on a cross.

My estimate is that as long as we give people what they want, more of them will listen. OTOH, will more be led to the Kingdom? That's debatable.

"The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you. Do you remember what I told you? ‘A slave is not greater than the master.’ Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you. They will do all this to you because of me, for they have rejected the One who sent me.

"The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you. Do you remember what I told you? ‘A slave is not greater than the master.’ Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you. They will do all this to you because of me, for they have rejected the One who sent me."

John 15:19-21 NLT

God blesses!

[Overaged]

Please before you answer that with a blanket "cause God inspired it" lets bear in mind that many other religious writings are considered by their followers to be divinely inspired as well. Some them actually make more sense than the Bible as well.

Hitler "thought" that Mein Kampf made "more sense" than anything else.

[LifeHiscost]

[Tongue firmly planted into the cheek mode-on]

Oh, we can't do that EC...Why that would ruin our disposition of being civilized. And, as you so well know, Civilization must be negetive as it must scratch and claw it's way to the top. We can't have it handed to us in such a fun way as to be seen as "friendly"!!! Oh heavens , no...no! No! A thousand times NO!!!! We need to be more like the world/civilization. Why if we appeared friendly, and celebrate the truth of our message, why people would be attracted to us and then there would be a lot of people come join us..Jealousy would ensue and then the persecutions would begin and then all the world would go into the proverbial handbasket...and we can't have that...right?

And now that you've told us all of the things that are wrong with us, tell me what is so different about that, except we haven't learned to place our tongue in our cheek. Does the word hypocrite strike any bells?

" “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven."

Luke 6:37 NLT

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

...Go door to door, do what you believe is right. But do it without the negativity, do it without the condemnation. Live the example, CELEBRATE your truth!!!! This is something I have so seldom seen in the Adventist community!

You have some very good and important ideas here, EC.

I've been associated with the SDA church almost all of my life and have seen a lot of bad things, having spent most of that time in a community that is 50% or so SDA or ex-SDA. Yet despite all those negative things that I saw and even participated in as a teen-ager and young adult, my memories of the SDA church are wonderful. I have seen a lot of "celebration" of the truth. Of course, what we see depends to a great extent on our families and friends, etc., and also depends on what we are looking for. People generally find what they're looking for.

I think the truth is that while we don't want to be constantly condemning, we need to be able to condemn sin and wrong when we see it. I would hate to see SDAs get to the point where they're afraid to condemn what's wrong. If we did that, we would not be doing what God has called us to do. We need to know how to do it in love, yes, but let's never think that love never condemns wrong. Love both upholds right and condemns wrong. If we prayefully imitate Christ as our role-model, we can never go wrong.

bold emphasis mine LHC

[LifeHiscost]

what is it that makes the way of Jesus more valid than all those other ones?

The empty tomb!

God blesses!

[Gerr]

What makes the Bible more valid than other religious or spiritual writings?

ESV | ‎Je 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

ESV | ‎Jn 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth,

ESV | ‎Jn 7:17 If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.