Get Them Off Welfare

[bonnie]

We had two Sioux Indian brothers. They were scheduled to be placed in a home for incorrigible boys.We reluctantly took them on a trial basis because of our own boys. The boys were already troubled but they did come from a intact family such as it was. Much to our surprise they were the sweetest most likable kids we had taken.Our trouble always came because race was used as a weapon.We knew what the parents were doing but initially the boys believed every little imagined slight was because of the color of their skin.Parents said we took them because we were paid more because they were Indian.

We bought them bikes when we bought them for ours.The boys were told not to be fooled all that came from welfare.It came out of our pocket.

When they had chores to do like ours,we had no right,we were well paid for them and besides Indian boys did not wash dishes or do laundry.

When the boys really started to settle in and feel like home they were always reminded we took them because we could get paid more for Indians.Not to listen to anything we said.

Would we have had upsets with white children,of course.But when the race factor was used in a negative way it hurt the boys worse.

We took a little girl at 18 months old.She was a very small part Indian,as blond and blue eyed as ours.The mother had no contact for 7 years.We stood a good chance of adopting her till her mother popped up when her rights were to be terminated.She began visitation and was allowed to take her two weekends a month.Her mother was living with a Indian man.

We lost her to the mother because she now had a Indian home that could provide the right culture.I was the only mother this little girl knew,yet with race as a added weapon this little girl turned to me and said.I am going to my real mother,your not Indian,you don't know how to take care of me.

Does race cause the initial problem? Of course not.There are problems without race being a factor. When you are dealing with a already iffy situation with children and when the race weapon is used by cruel people,your living on another planet if you think there is not a more harmful effect on children

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

our caseworker would not have allowed you to care for bi-racial children with your cavalier attitude towards problems they could face.

I am the father of bi-racial children. We have not had any racial issues at all. We now live in a different era. The President of the United States of America is bi-racial. The majority of Americans voted for him.

I am well aware by this time you have bi-racial children.So what.I have bi-racial grandchildren but usually don't feel the need to keep flashing the point to prove I am not sure what.

Yes the race issue is better,thankfully. I am glad all is well in your world.

Sorry,but I think our bi-racial president has some serious race issues regardless who voted for him.Pretty obvious he did with his white grandmother that raised him

I still pay more attention to those that deal with these situations five days a week.

As far as I know my grandchildren have never encountered a problem either.Race was never a factor to them as far as I could tell.It was as common to find them with a black friend or Indian,as it was mexican ,white or any other race.My granddaughters dated black boys,no one in the family thought anything of it.But all children do not live in their world.All children do not live in their secure families

[Dr. Shane]

I think most racism today exists in the minority groups themselves. There is a lot of racism within the white community but it is mostly stereotyping - not blatant discrimination like days gone past. But that is neither here nor there in the context of this thread.

A child being bi-racial has no connection to public assistance.

[bonnie]

I think most racism today exists in the minority groups themselves. There is a lot of racism within the white community but it is mostly stereotyping - not blatant discrimination like days gone past. But that is neither here nor there in the context of this thread.

A child being bi-racial has no connection to public assistance.

Yes,this child does. She exists because her mother chose that route rather than work.While she was at it'Let's see,what color should the baby be".Who give a rip what problems baby may have to deal with,I want a certain color and the taxpayer to pay.

[bonnie]

Beside that.You began this thread with total falsehood and as inflamatory as you could make it.The rules in Germany have nothing to do with ours here.You cannot show any proof of what you have accused others of.

Quote:

I think you have allowed Bonnie to mis-characterize my position.

What you think apparantly is Olger is not intelligent enough to read this thread and come to his own conclusion as to what he believed you meant.Olger and I have had our differences but he has never seemed to be so easily led

Quote:

I do not believe a college education makes an individual more valuable to society.

I started out college to become a shop teacher and later switched to Construction Management.

This is supposed to mean what?

Quote:

Now do you see where I am going? The three "big" talking heads on the radio are all college dropouts. Listening to them talk politics is like dropping into any local tavern and listing to the boys shoot the breeze. Who is Rush Limbaugh? He is a disc jockey. Who is Sean Hannity? He is a former construction worker. These guys do not have the background to qualify them as political commentators.

Compare the back ground of those talking heads to the likes of Bill O'Reilly or George Will. George Will has a PhD from Princeton and a Pulitzer Prize. Bill O'Reilly holds two Masters, one from Harvard. William F. Buckley Jr. graduated from Yale where he studied political science, history and economics. The talking-heads from talk radio just don't have those qualifications.

This pretty well explains your viewpoint.We need all those you mentioned,but certainly without a college degree how would they have the intelligence or the qualifications to understand politics or economics.Wonder how they arrive at their decision as to who to vote for?

Quote:

If I was going to throw a party and needed some great music, I am sure Rush Limbaugh has all the qualifications of a disc jockey to spin some discs but I am not going to take him seriously when he starts talking about politics. I'll "listen" to him just like I'll listen to the gents down at the local 12-step group shoot the breeze but that's it. A dry cleaner isn't going to cut my hair and a disc jockey isn't going to tell me who to vote for.

I am pretty sure Rush really doesn't care what you think.But someone that does the research and the 24/7 he does would gain at least as much if not far more than yourself. I don't think I have ever heard any of the three you demonize tell anyone who to vote for

_________________________

[olger]

Now do you see where I am going? The three "big" talking heads on the radio are all college dropouts. Listening to them talk politics is like dropping into any local tavern and listing to the boys shoot the breeze. Who is Rush Limbaugh? He is a disc jockey. Who is Sean Hannity? He is a former construction worker. These guys do not have the background to qualify them as political commentators.

I read your post and I understand it.

I still disagree for the following reasons:

1) Your argument rests on the assumption that academic qualification is the authoritative prerequisite for being informed on a particular field. I disagree because there are many types of education and academic is only one of them. In fact, the academic arena in this country is becoming more of a liability than an asset to rational thought.

2) "saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?” (John 7:15).

3) "Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus"  (Acts 4:13).

Summary. There is a difference between being educated and being learned. A college education in America has become for many a course in applied immorality. Not all, but many.

There is a persistent theme in the Bible regarding knowledge and its source - the Holy Spirit of God. In the university of Jerusalem, salvation was made complex. Jesus cut through all of that with a few well-chosen words.

Warm regards,

`g

[Dr. Shane]

You began this thread with total falsehood and as inflammatory as you could make it.The rules in Germany have nothing to do with ours here.

Women in Germany have been declined unemployment because they would not take a job in prostitution. Human nature is not different in Germany than it is in the US. The same cold spirit that pushes women into prostitution in Germany desires to do so here in the US.

[Dr. Shane]

Your argument rests on the assumption that academic qualification is the authoritative prerequisite for being informed on a particular field.

A person can be self-educated but that is the hard way to go. Consider the field of economics. A person can read a lot of books and watch TV programs but having professors to question and explain concepts and theories makes it a lot easier.

The biggest problem with being self-educated is that we tend to only study the things that interest us. Rush Limbaugh, for example, is more inclined to read books and articles from people that simply reinforce what he is already inclined to believe. In the formal education setting, students are challenged to think outside of their pre-existing beliefs.

Rush Limbaugh does not believe there is a connection between exercise and weight loss. He believes it is all diet. That is just one small example of his mindset.

[bonnie]

Women in Germany have been declined unemployment because they would not take a job in prostitution. Human nature is not different in Germany than it is in the US. The same cold spirit that pushes women into prostitution in Germany desires to do so here in the US.

You are still trying to draw a comparison where there isn't one.

This article doesn't have anything to do with this.....

I am sure cold-hearted conservatives would just love to get this kind of set-up going here in the US so we could kick single moms off from the welfare rolls.

That is simply you making something up as you go along because of your contempt for those you label cold hearted conservatives and have said God has a special place in hell for them.You will never have enough education or a superior standing where it is you that decides the fate or heart of any man.

There are many that believe your desire to allow anyone to live off the labor of another for as long as they choose is not only damaging to all involved but it is simply unbiblical.

You can look from Genesis to Rev and not find any backup for what you say and condemn others for not agreeing.God is pretty specific as to the responsibility of those with means helping those that need a hand up.God is also pretty specific as to the responsibility of those in need.Nowhere do you find thier every need should be provided without effort and labor on their part

If a man/woman does not work,he is not to eat.Every example/story of those in less than favorable circumstances is not one of "he has had it tough,let him remain idle"

Joseph as a young boy was stripped of everything he held dear.He certainly was without a father at a time when he needed him.Must have been pretty traumatic to be sold by your siblings.He did not sit down and say "I can't,I have not had every advantage"

The cripple by the pool by your standards should have told Jesus how unfair that he was to pick up his own bed and carry it.After all he had spent a lifetime of deprivation and physical impairment,what could be expected of him?

Even slaves were given instruction as to their responsibility.You want to talk about not having a chance in this world.Must be pretty tough to be sold like a piece of property and then told to be the best slave they could be.

Regardless of your edcuation,your experience that you claim women either draw welfare or go to prostitution,your condemnation and hope for a special place in hell for those that do not agree with you,you will never have a better plan than God or be as wise.

I think lacking your education I am far safer in placing my belief in Him and what he has said.

I will risk your special place in hell

[Guest]

The same cold spirit that pushes women into prostitution in Germany desires to do so here in the US.

Huh?

What are you talking about?

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Shane

The same cold spirit that pushes women into prostitution in Germany desires to do so here in the US.

Huh?

Seems a little conflict between Shanes truth and the true story.

But it did serve the purpose to heap condemnation on a

favorite group.

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

Tells a much different story than Shanes and really doesn't serve the purpose of condemnation to well

[Guest]

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

Shane, when you subscribe to the thinking on the left, and start listening to them, it will cause you to pick up a lot of faulty information.

[Dr. Shane]

While President Bush was running for President he chastised cold-hearted conservatives that wanted to balance the budget on the backs of the poor. President Bush was a good man. Cold-hearted conservatives need to sit in the corner and think about things.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

Your argument rests on the assumption that academic qualification is the authoritative prerequisite for being informed on a particular field.

A person can be self-educated but that is the hard way to go. Consider the field of economics. A person can read a lot of books and watch TV programs but having professors to question and explain concepts and theories makes it a lot easier.

The biggest problem with being self-educated is that we tend to only study the things that interest us. Rush Limbaugh, for example, is more inclined to read books and articles from people that simply reinforce what he is already inclined to believe. In the formal education setting, students are challenged to think outside of their pre-existing beliefs.

Rush Limbaugh does not believe there is a connection between exercise and weight loss. He believes it is all diet. That is just one small example of his mindset.

I agree with you and disagree with RL on the value of exercise.

However, in short you seem to be saying that an academic "education" alone can bring objective thinking. I can't agree with that, Shane. Generally speaking, academia is an incubator of subjectivity! Aberrant cases exist, yes.

[Guest]

I don't think I've ever met a conservative that was cold hearted. Maybe I have and it slipped by me somehow, but as a rule they are the warmest hearted people on the planet. They give to charities and such, 10 to 1 over democrats.

[Guest]

Generally speaking, academia is an incubator of subjectivity! Aberrant cases exist, yes.

That's exactly right !!!

[olger]

[Guest]

[Dr. Shane]

Generally speaking, academia is an incubator of subjectivity! Aberrant cases exist, yes.

Those that seem most concerned about our universities brainwashing our youth tend to be those that have never graduated from one. Isn't that interesting?

Many universities do tend to have more liberal professors than conservative. However there are private universities where there are more conservative than liberal. Rush Limbaugh, the son of a lawyer, could have went to a private university if he wanted to.

Unfortunately, many talk-show hosts like Rush get students to cause problems in classes with liberal professors and the students suffer. Most liberal professors I had enjoyed having conservative students in their classes. I was a member of the College Republicans when I attended college and had problems with only one liberal professor.

College is intended to teach students *how* to think - not *what* to think. Most of my liberal professors tried to do exactly that.

While most of the Apostles were not formally educated, the Apostle Paul was and wrote over half of the New Testament. Dr. Luke wrote the book of Acts as well as a gospel account. We don't think we know the educational background of Mark, but many believe that his gospel was Peter's account. So while God does call those not formally educated, He also uses those with formal education. Indeed, He is no respecter of persons.

[bonnie]

Those that seem most concerned about our universities brainwashing our youth tend to be those that have never graduated from one. Isn't that interesting?