Life on other planets

[John317]

Ellen White gives us lots of details that are not in the Bible. This is one of them.

But the correct question to ask is whether she says something that clearly and unquestionably contradicts the Bible, not whether she says something that is not in the Scriptures. Everyone agrees that Ellen White wrote many things that are not in the Bible. Every genuine prophet of God wrote things that were not in previous Scriptures, but they don't contradict previous revelation.

Is it contrary to Scripture to say that the angels of God directed the ravens to give food to Elijah?

[Lysimachus]

Ellen White gives us lots of details that are not in the Bible. This is one of them.

But the correct question to ask is whether she says something that clearly and unquestionably contradicts the Bible, not whether she says something that is not in the Scriptures. Everyone agrees that Ellen White wrote many things that are not in the Bible. Every genuine prophet of God wrote things that were not in previous Scriptures, but they don't contradict previous revelation.

Is it contrary to Scripture to say that the angels of God directed the ravens to give food to Elijah?

Exactly. If we go according to the rules the critics expect Ellen White to follow, she should just re-write the Bible word for word, and say everything the same. Then the question is left: What is her purpose?

It's a catch-22. If she says the same stuff, oh, she's just "copying" you see, she's not a true prophet. And if she says something the Bible doesn't mention, then she's "saying stuff not in the bible or contradicting it!" So it's a lose lose with the critics. No matter which way you go, they will always find something wrong with her.

The things she says requires a cross. And sadly, most critics are not willing to bear that cross. The real reason they are against her is not because they are wanting to do what is right, but because deep down inside she steps on their sins and her words go against their lifestyle. That is the real crux of the matter.

[Klapas]

Quote:

The real reason they are against her is not because they are wanting to do what is right, but because deep down inside she steps on their sins and her words go against their lifestyle

What sins? Eating flesh. Christ ate meat, fish, made and drank wine but you guys scare people into vegetarianism, making the weaker in the faith think that it's a sin to eat or drink.

Last think Christ did was cook up a fish BBQ and the first miracle was turn water into ALCAHOLIC wine. But NO! Ellen knows best.

[Tom Wetmore]

...Is it contrary to Scripture to say that the angels of God directed the ravens to give food to Elijah?

God told Elijah, "And it will be that you shall drink from the brook, and I have commanded the ravens to feed you there." - 1 Kings 17:4

While God certainly can use whatever means he chooses, it's not "pitiful" or unreasonable to read that and conclude that God directly controlled the ravens without using angels. That certainly sounds like what Scripture is unambiguously saying. Whether he used angels to guide those birds, used angels in the form of ravens, or made Elijah see ravens when he or angels were bringing him food all seems beside the point that God took care of Elijah through the drought.

Why does this have to be a disputed point?

[Gerr]

Please ask your question. I'd really like to hear it.

See post #491219.

[Lysimachus]

Quote:

The real reason they are against her is not because they are wanting to do what is right, but because deep down inside she steps on their sins and her words go against their lifestyle

What sins? Eating flesh. Christ ate meat, fish, made and drank wine but you guys scare people into vegetarianism, making the weaker in the faith think that it's a sin to eat or drink.

Last think Christ did was cook up a fish BBQ and the first miracle was turn water into ALCAHOLIC wine. But NO! Ellen knows best.

If we were living in Christ's day, we would eat those things too. And Christ drank unfermented wine, Grape Juice. This has been proven exegetically and historically. The word "wine" in both the KJV and the original Greek meant both unfermented grape juice and fermented grape juice.

Also, fish was clean in those days, and there were no oil spills or polutions. Today, Ellen White saw that disease amongst animals was a reason for God's remnant people to give up these things. Ellen White had a special message for the Church of the last days, and we must heed these warnings.

God sent prophets to each generation throughout Old Testament times, giving them different messages than the prophets had given to the generations prior.

Ellen White's messages are for these last day generations. We must heed them.

[Klapas]

Quote:

And Christ drank unfermented wine, Grape Juice. This has been proven exegetically and historically

.

No it hasn't!

Quote:

The word "wine" in both the KJV and the original Greek meant both unfermented grape juice and fermented grape juice.

and fermented grape juice

Quote:

Also, fish was clean in those days, and there were no oil spills or polutions. Today, Ellen White saw that disease amongst animals was a reason for God's remnant people to give up these things. Ellen White had a special message for the Church of the last days, and we must heed these warnings.

So farmed fish, and home grown organic chickens are out as well?

Better to eat factory made pretend meat and factory made supplements.

[BobRyan]

Since nobody wants to touch the sinless subject, how about di GOD send ravens to Elijah?

"There He honored Elijah by sending food to him morning and evening by an angel of heaven." (Testimonies, Vol. 3, p.288, written in 1873).

"He who fed Elijah by the brook, making a raven His messenger." (Testimonies, Vol. 4, p.253, written in 1876).

"And it shall be, that thou shalt drink of the brook; and I have commanded the ravens to feed thee there. So he went and did according unto the word of the LORD: for he went and dwelt by the brook Cherith, that is before Jordan. And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening; and he drank of the brook." (1 Kings 17:4-6).

NOTE: In 1873 EGW contradicted the Bible when she said Elijah was fed by an angel.

This is the same tired shallow game that people play with Christians on the subject of "was the Lord's supper on Passover or the day before"?

"Was Christ raised on the third day or after three days"?

Those games simply show that the questioner has no real interest in the subject at all.

But in the Raven vs "God" vs "God's messengers sent to minister to the saints" of Heb 1 - how much Bible did you really need to ignore to come up with this one?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Grasping at straws.

Rejoice angels and woe to humans, animals even fish.

I don't know how you people can make aliens almos any verse. Can't you be honest with yourselves?

You keep turning a blind eye to the Bible and then asking us why we don't join you as if that is a compelling argument for your POV.

What is up with that??

For the rest of us - we are free to accept that "Myriads and myriads" in the courtroom of Heaven in Dan 7 that are judging the saints -- are something other than "the people living next door".

For the rest of us - we are free to accept that the sons of God in Job 1 - among whom Satan shows up - representing the earth - are not "some kids living a few blocks down the road".

What part of this was supposed to be "difficult"??

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: John317

I see a huge difference between a writer describing the movement of the sun from the viewpoint of ordinary human experience and a writer saying that they were shown a vision of Enoch on Saturn.

Get your story right. I thought you said she didn't astral travel to Saturn?

Indeed - Ellen White never said anything at all about Saturn.

This seems to bring your rant to a dead each time you are confronted with this lack of support for your wild accusations.

Maybe you like public disappointment?

Why keep doing that to yourself?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

"Christ died to make it possible for you to cease to sin, and sin is the transgression of the law." (Review and Herald, Vol. 71, No. 35, p.1, August 28, 1894).

"To be redeemed means to cease from sin." (Review and Herald, Vol. 77, No. 39, p.1, September 25, 1900).

"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all his precepts." (Manuscript 122, 1901, quoted in the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, p.1118).

"To every one who surrenders fully to God is given the privilege of living without sin, in obedience to the law of heaven. God requires of us perfect obedience. We are to purify ourselves, even as he is pure. By keeping his commandments, we are to reveal our love for the Supreme Ruler of the universe." (Review and Herald, September 27, 1906, p.8).

"These things I write to you that you sin NOT" 1John 2:1

"No one who is born of God sins" 1John 3.

And of course Christ said "Go and sin no more".

In fact Christ said "lest something worse befall you" in that regard.

It seems that your desire to throw inspired writers under the bus of your man-made traditions and doctrines - has no end.

What is up with that?

Why do you keep doing that in public?

Is it supposed to be helping your cause?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Tell me why you need a Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen G. White, Charles Taze Russell, L Ron Hubbard, Jim Jones. Why do people need to be told how to think?

Paul was afraid of been labeled a guru or cult leader,

1 Corinthians 1

 1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

You continually make the flawed argument "Give me just the Bible - just not the Words IN the Bible" -- why do you keep doing that?

1Cor 14:1 "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may prophesy"

1Thess 5:19-20 "quench NOT the Spirit and do not reject prophetic statements".

Your doctrine of "throw the prophets of God under the bus - who needs 'em" -- is NOT a Bible doctrine -- and yet you pretend to claim to want the Bible.

Well I guess you mean "just not the words IN the Bible".

So why keep making those kinds of arguments as if they help your case?

So far - I only state the incredibly obvious and ask that you have at least some consideration for what it would take to make a good case for your POV.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Here read this: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

[ClubV12]

...seemed like such a simple thread when it started. :)