Life on other planets

[Gerr]

Yes, and humans/animals too. I would say such a mixture would be a "tare" wouldn't you?

That's a loooong stretch.

[jasd]

Quote:

Why "amalgamated"? Umm, how many of y'alls think that genetic engineering or genetic manipulation, or genetic modifying, or... etc

was part of her vernacular. No way! Therefore,

she resorts to "amalgamation".

>>The concept of amlagum was not as foreign to people in the 1800's as you seem to suppose.<<

Indeed, that is why I stated that she, lacking the vernacular 'genetic engineering', utilized

"amalgamate" - a close simile.

>>But it is not likely at all that Ellen White knew anything about Cosmology or about genetic engineering.<<

One surmises that Gd showed things of pertinent value to His prophet. To have also given her the term genetic engineering may have compromised succeeding events of history.

>>However God showed her that mankind had corrupted its way and defiled the image of God via the form of amalgamation that they were practicing.<<

The passage in Genesis stating that Noah was the only one yet pure/perfect in his generations/bloodline - strongly indicates

a physical corruption - not one of morals or belief.

>>It is only now that we have the problem of animal-human chimeras - that we "begin" to understand the depth of the problem of the "one sin above any other" that called for the end of the world in Noah's day.<<

Indeed, "As it was in the days of Noah..." Jesus Christ effectively informs His audience that the same genetic engineering occurring today was occurring with antediluvian man.

[BobRyan]

True - but I don't think that people really understood that concept until recently. In prior years they viewed it only as a question of "mating" perversion rather than understanding true genetic engineering.

Ellen White saw the "confused species" and knew that it was amalgamation - but I doubt that she fully understood the science of just "how" they were doing it.

Which is the same issue with being able to "look up" and see 7 moons in the sky. Does not take a genius. But having God take you to some other world where such a thing is taking place - well that takes divine revelation.

in Christ,

Bob

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Yes, and humans/animals too. I would say such a mixture would be a "tare" wouldn't you?

That's a loooong stretch.

The "tares" are the evil pollution put into this world by the evil one. Are you thus saying that human/animal sexual relationships and/or such genetic engineering use of such is not a "tare" or not an evil.

I would call such activities evil. Why don't you?

[Klapas]

The Biblical Reason for the Flood

It was the infusion of these strange beings, the nephilim/giants [Nephilim, which derives from the Hebrew naphal (to fall), or the Fallen Ones. (The Greek Septuagint renders this term gigantes, which actually means "earth-born." This is often misunderstood to mean "giants"--which they also happen to have been, incidentally.) ]

It seems that this was part of Satan's stratagem to corrupt the line of Adam to prevent the fulfillment of the Messianic redemption.

The very absence of any such adulteration of the human genealogy in Noah's case is also documented in (Genesis 6:9, KJV).

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God"

Noah's family tree was distinctively unblemished. The term used, tamiym, is used for physical blemishes. Exodus 12:5, 29; Leviticus 1:3, 10; 3:1, 6; 4:3, 23; 5:15, 18, 25; 22:19, 21; 23:12; Numbers 6:14; et al. Over 60 references, usually referring to the freedom from physical blemishes of offerings.

Ref: Khouse.org

[Lysimachus]

A powerful text that seems to imply other inhabited planets:

• Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:12)

I believe God is talking to the inhabitants of the other worlds, not the angels. Seriously, what can the Devil do to God's angels? He already attacked deceived 1/3rd of the angel's, and after he was done doing that, he was thrown out of heaven along with those angels. Therefore, this passage can only logically be discussing the inhabitants of other unfallen worlds. John is "contrasting" between the inhabitants of the earth, and the inhabitants in the heavens. He's telling them to rejoice--they don't know how good they've got it. The Devil is not after those planets, he's after God's crowning creation--planet earth.

[Klapas]

Wrong. It implies nothing.

Read it again.

Its talking about the occupants of Heaven not Mars. They are rejoicing, not threatened. Just likein Luke 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Stop implying and take the Word literally.

[ClubV12]

Hmmmm, interesting take on Rev 12:12 Lysimachus, I see your point quite clearly, those that dwell in the heaven's, plural, not heaven, singular. I'll be analyzing the verse more closely, when time allows, with an interlinear. Woe to those on planet earth, who see through a glass darkly what is to come.

I am confident Ellen White was not visiting any planets within our solar system, nor was Enoch when she conversed with him. Why? Simple, no way the Lord would place inhabitated planets with sinless beings within reach of our primitive technology. We "pollute space", like throwing our garbage in the sea, or out behind your house. This is not the environment the Lord would have His sinless created beings subject to. No, you can count on it, they are far removed from the pollution of this solar system.

Enoch lived in the city, as he told Ellen White in her vision. What city? The city of heaven! He was just visiting the first of four planets she was directed to.

[miz3]

A powerful text that seems to imply other inhabited planets:

• Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:12)

I believe God is talking to the inhabitants of the other worlds, not the angels. Seriously, what can the Devil do to God's angels? He already attacked deceived 1/3rd of the angel's, and after he was done doing that, he was thrown out of heaven along with those angels. Therefore, this passage can only logically be discussing the inhabitants of other unfallen worlds. John is "contrasting" between the inhabitants of the earth, and the inhabitants in the heavens. He's telling them to rejoice--they don't know how good they've got it. The Devil is not after those planets, he's after God's crowning creation--planet earth.

Could be. However, it is not a lock that you are correct because there are other possibilities available.

My personal opinion would be to agree with you but then that is just our opinion and not a lock fact.

The text of course has a different purpose than to "prove" that there is life on other planets.

[Gerr]

If there are trillions of planets in God's universe, it makes no sense to me to believe that only this planet has life on it.

[Klapas]

Grasping at straws.

Rejoice angels and woe to humans, animals even fish.

I don't know how you people can make aliens almos any verse. Can't you be honest with yourselves?

This is exactly how the Greek Orthodox church protected itself from scrutiny when I was asking questions. The last thing I was told was "look here Klapas, you have to underatand the Orthodox mind.

What's the difference here? You have to be an SDA to understand.

Yeh?

How do you become an SDA?

Well, first you have to be tricked into watching a video (or DVD today) on health, cancer cures or scare them with a conspiracy of some kind. Then the Bible is thrown into the equation with some Old Testament Leviticus. A few follow ups and Bob's your fathers brother. Once they are in, they are drip feed some Ellen While prophesies but, all the time be carefull not to show the wacky far out prophesies that might scare them. Wait till the hook has well grasped them by the gizzards before you tell them about aliens, 144000, amalgamation, soul sleep,no he'll, big bibles, Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, diseases caused ny masturbating, God changing his mind on long dresses, dietary laws, Christ is the Archangell Michael and Satans brother, Satan bearing our sin not Christ, wrong dates of Christs retun covered up.

Ohw my brain hurts.

Have a good life, because your afterlife ain't looking to good.

[Gerr]

You shouldn't be talking to yourself. It's not good for your health, especially all these harbored resentments.

[Klapas]

<< 1 Corinthians 15:47 >>

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

[Klapas]

No takers?

[Lysimachus]

Wrong. It implies nothing.

Read it again.

Its talking about the occupants of Heaven not Mars. They are rejoicing, not threatened. Just likein Luke 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Stop implying and take the Word literally.

It implies a lot actually.

You forget that there are 3 heavens. The sky and our solar system, the universe between our solar system and the New Jerusalem, and then the New Jerusalem itself.

Also, we're not talking about Mars here. We're talking about planets that exist that God has made WAY out of our sphere--with other inhabitants.

We're talking about planets, with unfallen beings, in God's heavenly atmosphere. WAY out of our reach, or even what the strongest telescope can spot.

[Lysimachus]

<< 1 Corinthians 15:47 >>

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Who said the holy beings on these other planets are called "men"? or "man"? Nobody has said that.

[Lysimachus]

They may look like humans, they may be shaped like humans, but they are not humans. Only humans come from planet earth.

[Klapas]

When it suits you the aliens are men and when it doesn't they are not human.

The spin here is incredible.

[Klapas]

They may look like humans, they may be shaped like humans, but they are not humans. Only humans come from planet earth. These are men from other worlds.

[ClubV12]

I wouldn't call them "men", these created beings on other planets. We know angels are not "men" or "women". They are different classes of created beings, not all angels have the same capability or assignments. As to created beings on other planets, I suspect the same is true of them, different classes, different assignments. All perfectly happy with their position in life. We will not marry and bear children in heaven. We are told, by the prophet, that we will recognize each other. It's interesting to note that Sister White recognized Enoch, even though they had never met. The question of Enoch being male or female was not an issue, all though one could logically call him a "man". I think thats a bit misleading in heavenly circumstances, where gender is simply not an issue.

[Klapas]

Biblically, a man is not necessary male or female.

Man is someone made in the likeness of God, spirit, soul and everything in-between. In Gods domain there is no time. (a day is like a thousand years. He wasn't lonely up there for millions of years. He created the first living thing in His image. A man. 6000. + years ago. There was no other. You can spin this any way you want but it's not until you ad to the Word that you get life on other planets. The Word is enough.

Belief in ETs is not a Salvation issue but false prophesies are.

[ClubV12]

Point well taken Klapas, belief in other created planets and beings is not a salvation issue. And yes, belief in false prophets or prophecies are a serious issue. Such belief needs to be carefully considered and hold fast to that which is good. Having studied the prophets, I have to conclude, Ellen White was a true prophet. I used to be a Mormon, applying the same tests to Joseph Smith, I conclude he was a false prophet, I'll hold fast to that which is good.

Other planets IS the topic of this thread though!

I suspect THIS planet was nowhere near the "first", more likely the "last"! The wording in the bible is interesting though, making man in His own image. It does tend to suggest that this was the first time that was done, as if the other created worlds and beings were not as close to Gods image as THIS creation was.

Theres a quite a debate about what the "image of God" means, it does not have to physical you know. It could be mental in some way. It's an interesting question I ponder from time to time, what DOES it mean to be in the image of God?

[Klapas]

Tell me why you need a Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen G. White, Charles Taze Russell, L Ron Hubbard, Jim Jones. Why do people need to be told how to think?

Paul was afraid of been labeled a guru or cult leader,

1 Corinthians 1

 1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.   

4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.   

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

Christ the Power and Wisdom of God

   

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

      “ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,

      And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

[ClubV12]

I don't think we need another prophet for our time, God did. HE was the one who called Ellen White to service. It's becomes more clear with the passage of time why He did, in our time and hers.

There are SO many variations of christianity. We have everything we need in the bible and the bible alone. But look at all the variations on how people interpret the same verse! It truly is "Babylon". The Lord sent us a special messenger to help re-establish a faith that was almost lost in the dark ages. Like the knowledge of God was almost lost to the children of Israel while in slavery to Egypt. He called them out, that they might get reaquainted. Such was the roll of the prophet, then Moses, to day, Ellen White, to call out a people that would keep his commandments, all of them. Didn't have to be Ellen White, she is really not the important person here, it was God. He could have called anyone, the people needed a personal conduit from His throne to get back on track.

[phkrause]

Where does it say in her writings how we are to think?? If you get the feeling that's what she's doing, than you better get rid of your Bible too, because that's where she gets that from!