Life on other planets

[Gail]

I saw the preview window and wondered how "life on other planets" morphed into "men certainly have had sex with animals. But this cannot produce an offspring."

LOL Just popping in out of curiosity!

[Klapas]

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[ClubV12]

A sanctified imagination or a study of history doesn't add or subtract to a prophets words, it brings it to life and promotes a greater understanding of Gods love and His created works.

Doctrine is a different matter, that is based on the bible and it stands as written, nothing to add or subtract. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, set aside for man to rest and contemplate the mystery of the Lord and be blessed by that. There are certain spelled out obligations within the fourth commandment and they are not open to manipulation, addition or subtraction. Now how each individual personally observes the Sabbath beyond that is a matter between them and God. It is good to contemplate things like how do the angels keep the Sabbath? How did Adam and Eve keep the Sabbath? How do other worlds and created beings who have never fallen into sin keep the Sabbath? These things are worthy of consideration.

Other worlds and the creation of life in general I think is right on topic for this thread!

[cheddar]

Klapas,

Have you ever heard of Dr. Carl Baugh? He has done some amazing research on evidence for creation. He has agreed with and verified many Adventist ideas on what the world was like before the flood and he's not even adventist.

As to life on other worlds - it's hard to prove from the bible but makes sense to me - billions of galaxies each with billions of stars - the odds are pretty good.

He has a website - www.creationevidence.org

[Klapas]

Klapas,

Have you ever heard of Dr. Carl Baugh? He has done some amazing research on evidence for creation. He has agreed with and verified many Adventist ideas on what the world was like before the flood and he's not even adventist.

As to life on other worlds - it's hard to prove from the bible but makes sense to me - billions of galaxies each with billions of stars - the odds are pretty good.

He has a website - www.creationevidence.org

Yes I know of dr Carl Baugh. It was his video of Panorama of creation that convinced me that there is a GOD Creator. And the reason I'm a Christian.

Since you brought up dr Baugh have you seen the London artifact?

It's a crude hammer that was made pre flood by your advanced civilisations who were able to geneticaly engineer races of people. Compare it to one that was made yesterday with our primitive technology. London artifact

[Klapas]

http://184.154.224.5/~creatio1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26

[cheddar]

I do remember seeing that. They can't even make metal like that today with all of our advanced technology.

I went to his museum and attended a few seminars by him about ten years ago but haven't been back since.

I heard that he remodeled his museum and it's alot nicer now, but haven't found the time to get back - It's definitely on my to-do list.

[Klapas]

I do remember seeing that. They can't even make metal like that today with all of our advanced technology.........

You obviously weren't listening to Carl or have a selective memory. The reaso it can not be reproduced with our advanced technology, is because the eath atmosphere was different pre flood. Carl said we had 2 1/2 atmospheres of pressure, I think 29% extra oxygen, harmfull UV light was filtered out through the firmament layer of wate (ice) and a stronger magnetic field. Nothing to do with advance technology or alien help. If they were so advanced, it wouldn't look like something hastily fashioned in someones old barn.

[John317]

You obviously weren't listening to Carl or have a selective memory. The reaso it can not be reproduced with our advanced technology, is because the eath atmosphere was different pre flood. Carl said we had 2 1/2 atmospheres of pressure, I think 29% extra oxygen, harmfull UV light was filtered out through the firmament layer of wate (ice) and a stronger magnetic field. Nothing to do with advance technology or alien help. If they were so advanced, it wouldn't look like something hastily fashioned in someones old barn.

Near the first of your posting, Klapas, you wrote:

Originally Posted By: Klapas

PS. I hope I'm not coming accross aggressive.

I am not well educated and find it difficult to put my thoughts to pen (keyboard )

What happened to the not-so-well educated person who didn't want to come across as aggressive and finds it difficult to put your thoughts to pen (keyborad )?

It appears you've made some astounding progress in your education and communication abilities over the last day or so.

Do you also still hope you are "not coming accross agressive"?

[Klapas]

I'm flattered.

For the record. I'm driving the wife, daughter and thesorus nuts with my constant requests for help with the right words to use so I don't look so dumb. Nobody likes a dumb dislexic who can't spell to save his life. (thank God for spell check).

I may be dislexic but I have a fantastic memory, especially stuff that interests me.

Now can we get back to the topic?

[Klapas]

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

GOD said

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Ellen White said

Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. 3SG 64

[John317]

I'm Greek. In Genesis 1 the good book says "ouranos" (singular) and in Genesis 2 it says "ouranos" (singular).

KJV is and English translation.

Originally Posted By: Klapas

Ton ouranon is singular nutar and oh ouranos is single masculine. Greek is a funny language.

Shouldn't a Greek person know that ton ouranon is singular masculine and NOT "nutar" [neuter]?

[Klapas]

I havnt cried since my Mum died 10 years ago.

I was googling and found this article. This poor guy lived during Ellens lifetime. I wonder if he was a product of the "amalgamation"? I bet some of her followers visited poor Ota at the Bronx Zoo.

Ota Benga, or Otabenga, was an African "Bushman" who lived in what is now Zaire. He was captured in a raid on his village and his family was killed. Samuel Phillips Verner (from South Carolina) was looking for pygmies to be exhibited in the St. Louis Exposition of 1904. Ota was to help build an authentic looking native African village.

Verner went bankrupt in 1906 and Ota was turned over to the Guardian Trust Company who seized Verner's collections.

Ota was then taken to the Bronx Zoo where he was put on display as evidence of Evolution. Ota was forced to live in the primate house and share his quarters with an Orangutan.

Later Ota was released, but the effect this had on him is horrible, as Ota took his own life in 1916.

[Klapas]

Oops I made a booboo.

I was debating Greek gramma with the wife last night and I was wrong.

Greek gramma can be so confusing. Eg

Male

O, tou ton

Female

Ti, tis tin, i,

Nutar(spell?)

To, ta

When I was in primary school in Greece many many moons ago there was 5 singular and 5 plural for each gender. They've now simplified some of the language cut down to 3 of each. I've lost track.

Like I said. I'm dislexic but have a fantastic memory for stuff that interests me, especially technology.

[John317]

I may be dislexic but I have a fantastic memory, especially stuff that interests me.

If you have a fantastic memomy for stuff that interests you, explain why you can't remember your own lagnuage as a Greek? Why did you say this:

Originally Posted By: Klapas

Ton ouranon is singular nutar and oh ouranos is single masculine. Greek is a funny language.

Ton ouranon is not singular neuter.

Ton ouranon is the same number and gender as oh ournaos.

[John317]

.... This poor guy lived during Ellens lifetime. I wonder if he was a product of the "amalgamation"? I bet some of her followers visited poor Ota at the Bronx Zoo.

Where does Ellen White state that there was amalgamation between man and the animals?

This is "spin" in your part, yet you claim that SDAs spin. She said there has been "amalgamation of man and beast." That is not the same thing as "amalgamation between man and best."

"Amalgamation of man and beast" is the same as "amalgamation of man and of beast."

Originally Posted By: Ellen G. White

Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {1SP 78.2}

It helps to read what she actually said, not what you think she said or meant. As with the Bible or any other text, it's also necessary to read everything said on a particular topic.

Your spin would have us believe that Ellen White believed an endless variety of animals are part human. Of course that's ridiculous. But that's no less ridiculous than the spin that would charge her with the absurd belief that some races of men are part animal.

If she had such a belief, she would surely have expressed it outside of 1SP 78.2 at some time throughout her long life. Yet you won't find it, for the simple reason that she never held such a foolish belief. It is something invented by people who are desperately searching for reason to attack a good Christian lady who spent her life serving Jesus.

[abelisle]

You might find this article interesting:

http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2011/05...heory-revisited

[Klapas]

Originally Posted By: Klapas

I may be dislexic but I have a fantastic memory, especially stuff that interests me.

If you have a fantastic memomy for stuff that interests you, explain why you can't remember your own lagnuage as a Greek? Why did you say this:

Originally Posted By: Klapas

Ton ouranon is singular nutar and oh ouranos is single masculine. Greek is a funny language.

Ton ouranon is not singular neuter.

Ton ouranon is the same number and gender as oh ournaos.

I said oops!

Sorry.

I was wrong.

Forgive me.

I left Greece when I was 11. I only speak greek to my evil mother in law. When I was in Greece I was in ICU in hospital and was not expected to survive. My school teacher came to see me and instead of saying a kind word to my folks, he told them how bad a student I was and that I had no concept of the Greek language and he also said "I bet he's just as bad at englis". ( I wasnt born in Greece.) Mum almost killed him and when I got better we packed our bags and returned to Auz, racism and all).

Now that know about me and how dumb I am I hope that answers your question why unlike your prophet I can be wrong. joke

[John317]

Yes, interesting. But coming from Spectrum, I would say not surprising. In fact, my response would be more like, what else is new?

But what are your personal thoughts about the topic?

[Klapas]

Originally Posted By: Klapas

.... This poor guy lived during Ellens lifetime. I wonder if he was a product of the "amalgamation"? I bet some of her followers visited poor Ota at the Bronx Zoo.

Where does Ellen White state that there was amalgamation between man and the animals?

This is "spin" in your part, yet you claim that SDAs spin. She said there has been "amalgamation of man and beast." That is not the same thing as "amalgamation between man and best."

"Amalgamation of man and beast" is the same as "amalgamation of man and of beast."

Originally Posted By: Ellen G. White

Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {1SP 78.2}

It helps to read what she actually said, not what you think she said or meant. As with the Bible or any other text, it's also necessary to read everything said on a particular topic.

Your spin would have us believe that Ellen White believed an endless variety of animals are part human. Of course that's ridiculous. But that's no less ridiculous than the spin that would charge her with the absurd belief that some races of men are part animal.

If she had such a belief, she would surely have expressed it outside of 1SP 78.2 at some time throughout her long life. Yet you won't find it, for the simple reason that she never held such a foolish belief. It is something invented by people who are desperately searching for reason to attack a good Christian lady who spent her life serving Jesus.

Wow I'm dizzy!

Who's on first?

[ClubV12]

Well like I said earlier, I'll leave for both interpretations of what she meant.

Of man AND of beast. Or, a literal combination of the two. Either way it does nothing to cause me concern over the prophets inspired insight. We see plenty of misinterpretation with bible verses, comments that people post right here in the forum and in every day life. Two people hear something and the next thing you know you've got two totally different ideas on what was said! :)

[John317]

When I was in primary school in Greece many many moons ago there was 5 singular and 5 plural for each gender. They've now simplified some of the language cut down to 3 of each. I've lost track.

Like I said. I'm dislexic but have a fantastic memory for stuff that interests me, especially technology.

Do you read the Greek New Testament? I mean koine Greek?

[John317]

Wow I'm dizzy!

Who's on first?

Must be your dislexia again.

Seriously, why do you find it so confusing?

Are you saying you can't see the difference between the word "between" and "and"?

Can you find anywhere in her writings where Ellen White suggests that some humans are not made in the image of God or that some are part beast?

Doesn't it seem reasonable to you that if you can't find anything else she said which would show she believed what you claim, you might have a mistaken interpretation of what she is saying in that passage?

[Klapas]

Originally Posted By: Klapas

Wow I'm dizzy!

Who's on first?

Must be your dislexia again.

Seriously, why do you find it so confusing?

Are you saying you can't see the difference between the word "between" and "and"?

Can you find anywhere in her writings where Ellen White suggests that some humans are not made in the image of God or that some are part beast?

Doesn't it seem reasonable to you that if you can't find anything else she said which would show she believed what you claim, you might have a mistaken interpretation of what she is saying in that passage?

"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.75).

[John317]

Well like I said earlier, I'll leave for both interpretations of what she meant.

Of man AND of beast. Or, a literal combination of the two. Either way it does nothing to cause me concern over the prophets inspired insight.

But there are several big problems with the idea that she is teaching that man amalgamated with animals.

1) As she wrote it, the statement in 1 SP 78 would mean she also says that there are an almost endless variety of animal species which are part human.

Quote:

Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood, there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {1SP 78.2}

2) Ellen White never wrote anything outside of this statement which would lead anyone to conclude that she believed some humans are part animal or that there are beasts which are part human. If anyone rejects this, let them give quotes and references.

3) Ellen White taught that all humans are in the image of God, and Christ died to save them. Christ did not die for the beasts. This would be impossible if some humans were the product of amalgamation between man and beast. Such products would not be in the image of God.

4) It is not possible for sexual relations between man and beast to produce progeny because the DNA of the beasts and the DNA of humans isn't compatable.

5) It is not necessary to understand the language of Ellen White in 1 SP 78 to mean humans interbred with beasts or that some animals are part human. In fact, it makes better sense to see the sentence as saying there has been amalgamation of man and amalgamation of beasts.

Therefore, in the light of the first 4 points, it would be illogical to conclude that she intended people to understand her words to mean that sex between humans and animals produced a human/animal amalgamation. Such a conclusion would fly in the face of everything else she wrote.