Life on other planets

[Klapas]

Ton ouranon is singular nutar and oh ouranos is single masculine. Greek is a funny language. Are we now going to debate the sex of heaven? Ha ha. Just joking

[John317]

Exactly-- both singular whereas both Hebrew words are plural.

Of course, as you know, the gender of words in Koine Greek don't necessarily have anything to do with sex or even with whether something is associated with female or male.

That's neuter. LOL

[Klapas]

Job chapter 1 - the "sons of God" come together and meet with God.

By that the text is not talking about "other Sons of God like Jesus".

Jesus is THE Son of God -- more precisely "God the Son".

It is Jesus that is being challenged in Job 1.

It is Jesus who sits "as God at that table".

All the others - are those who are given dominion of some world. Should have been Adam sitting there in Lucifer's chair - but Adam handed the keys over to Lucifer.

Thus in Matt 4 - in the temptation of Christ - Lucifer says "this world is mine and I give it to whomever I will".

And in 2Cor 10:4 Lucifer is called "the god of this world".

in Christ,

Bob

I was just re reading earlier posts. Who and what are those others who are given dominion over some world?

[Klapas]

Ok. I'm not an SDA but am related to one that is working on me to come over to the other side

If we take Ellen out of the equation, is it possible to conclude from JUST the Bible that there is sinless life on other planets?

[John317]

Jesus is THE Son of God -- more precisely "God the Son".

Yes, this is true. The title, Son of God, actually refers to the fact that Jesus Christ is God; that is, of the order of God.

Similarly, the title, Son of man, refers to the fact that Jesus is human; that is, of the order of Adam. It obviously doesn't mean he is the son of a man, or of Adam. Rather, Jesus Christ is of the same nature as Adam.

[BobRyan]

So is Jesus "in charge" of every planet and it's occupants or are there others?

In Colossians 1 and John 1 - Jesus is the maker and sustainer of everything. He is the God of all. The only planet Satan is claiming -- is this one according to Matt 4 and 2Cor 10.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Great reply, Bob. :-)

thanks john - I live to serve!

[Klapas]

All the others - are those who are given dominion of some world.?

[John317]

If we take Ellen out of the equation, is it possible to conclude from JUST the Bible that there is sinless life on other planets?

I think the most we can say is that we are able to infer from the Bible that there are planets in the universe that have intelligent life on them.

The Bible certainly doesn't contradict the notion.

And as far as whether these beings would be fallen or unfallen, the Bible gives us no reason to believe they would be in rebellion against God.

So, yes, I would say that it's possible to conclude just on the basis of Scripture that there is sinless life on other planets.

[John317]

:-)

That's the spirit. lol

[BobRyan]

Job chapter 1 - the "sons of God" come together and meet with God.

By that the text is not talking about "other Sons of God like Jesus".

Jesus is THE Son of God -- more precisely "God the Son".

It is Jesus that is being challenged in Job 1.

It is Jesus who sits "as God at that table".

All the others - are those who are given dominion of some world. Should have been Adam sitting there in Lucifer's chair - but Adam handed the keys over to Lucifer.

Thus in Matt 4 - in the temptation of Christ - Lucifer says "this world is mine and I give it to whomever I will".

And in 2Cor 10:4 Lucifer is called "the god of this world".

[BobRyan]

Ok. I'm not an SDA but am related to one that is working on me to come over to the other side

If we take Ellen out of the equation, is it possible to conclude from JUST the Bible that there is sinless life on other planets?

God gave Ellen White a lot of information. Much more detail on some subjects than you find in scripture.

The Bible tells us that if we ignore God's Prophets we do ourselves great harm. So in the case of SDAs - we are not at liberty to ignore what she was told by God.

As the texts I have pointed out indicate - it is possible there is intelligent life - sinless beings on other planets. The 99 vs the 1 lost sheep. But it is only slightly discussed in the Bible. Nothing so clear as what you find in the messages God gave Ellen White.

The reason (I believe) is that until this very point - at the end of time... it was not important for man to know about it. But now - it is going to be key knowledge for those who seek to survive the end of time.

in Christ,

Bob

[Klapas]

Do these sons of god who have dominion o their planets report to god on a regular basis on the affairs of their worlds?

[BobRyan]

Job 1 makes it appear that they do this on some interval.

Daniel 5 speaks of the "Holy Watchers" who "pass judgment" on the king of Babylon.

Daniel 7 describes a great judgment scene in heaven where "myriads and myriads" are in the court room "the court sat and the books were opened" (at a point just before the 2nd coming).

So it appears that there are "gatherings" or "meetings" of some kind.

And in Rev 12 "the accuser of the brethren has been cast down to the earth - knowing that he has but a short time" just after the cross.

in Christ,

Bob

[Klapas]

The reason (I believe) is that until this very point - at the end of time... it was not important for man to know about it. But now - it is going to be key knowledge for those who seek to survive the end of time.

Why is it important now to survive the end time?

[BobRyan]

Because now at the end of time - Satan is planning a whopper of a deception. At least if you watch the news and take notes.

In Rev 13 God tells us that Satan will bring on "signs and wonders" BEFORE the setting up of the "image to the beast".

In Matt 24 God tells us that this will be so convincing that if possible "it will deceive the very elect".

in 2Thess 2 - again God tells us that amazing "signs and wonders" will be presented and all mankind will be deceived.

in Rev 16 we are told that in reality these are "spirits of demons" and they they are targeting the governments of the world.

Ellen White says that "heathen deities will display themselves before the cities of the world".

She says that a new religion -- a supposedly new and more exalted order will be established. And all of it - will be deception.

Satan is using evolution to undercut religion. He is now using the discovery of over 500 exo-planets since the 1990 to start a "sea change" in human thinking. In Oct 2010 we appointed an ambassador at the UN to extra terrestrials.

Watch the news. A few years ago the Mexican air force sent a video to the US government of one of their fighter jets' gun camera tracking a string of 16 ufo's in their air space. This was aired on national news as the first such event in history reported by the air force of another government.

In 2010 (sept-oct) there was a "disclosure project" meeting held at the "National Press Club" near Washington D.C where high ranking military sources testified to the shutting down of a segment of our Nuclear offensive arsenal in the 1960's supposedly during a UFO encounter. Then in Oct 2010 - about 10% of our Nuclear arsenal AGAIN "just so happened to go down". This made national news and the Obama administration was charged with coming up with an answer for such an unprecidented loss of control of our nukes.

In 2010 and 2011 several news items refer to airports around the globe being shut down temporarily due to UFO presence above the airports. (A lot of reports in Oct 2010 about this happening in China, and then 2011 in the US). All that is a new level of interference.

There is a "ramp up" to something going on out there.

In 2011 Jan-Feb the national news showed us 4 independant video eye witness accounts of some bright object invading the restricted airspace in Israel above the Dome of the Rock and then shooting up into space after hovering over the dome for about 20 seconds.

At this point I am only talking about "reporting the national news" - all of it still available on the internet as well. You can make of it what you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

[Klapas]

And teaching that there is life on other planets will help?

[BobRyan]

If the other worlds are indeed sinless, and in full and open communication with God and the angels... then there is little chance that they are showing up here in space ships where the god of this world "goes about as a roaring lion" according to Peter. They do not in any way fit the story telling going on here on earth about life on other planets.

The Vatican's chief astronomer and other sources have been coming out telling us that aliens "evolved" and are to be accepted as we might accept a member of another nation - who may or may not be "kind" or sinful, or in need of salvation. They insist that we NOT claim that these supposed UFO visitors are really demonic in origin! They insist that we NOT view them for what they really are!

Scientists tell us that anyone who "shows up" is obviously more scientifically advanced and will take over the place. See Hawking's recent statement on that point. Physicist Michio KaKu (author of the book "Hyperspace") is not only on national news talking about the Nuclear reactor problems in Japan - but also on national news talking about alien life showing up in our life time that will present earth with an "existential shock". He says this based on the big "shocker" to cosmologists that Kepler would find the "goldilocks" planets so near earth.

There is a sea change in human thinking on this topic.

Only SDAs have a model that is anchored so as not to be deceived by it.

[Klapas]

Only SDAs have a model that is anchored so as not to be deceived by it.

I'm sorry, but the SDAs I know quit their jobs, sold up their nice homes in the city and moved their families to the country, home schooled their kids, lived like hippies and survived on welfare for the last 20 years.

[abelisle]

@ Klapas - check your message box

[Gerr]

So is Jesus "in charge" of every planet and it's occupants or are there others?

And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The Holy Bible: English standard version. 2001 (Col 1:17). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

[Ron Lambert]

There is a Bible passage that I have been using for many years to imply that intelligent life does exist on other planets. 12Tribes even quoted part of it, Job 38:7. Let me quote the passage, beginning with verse four (I quote from the NASB, though any translation will give the same sense):

Quote:

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements, since you know? Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

This is God challenging Job for presumption in his criticism of God. Please note especially verses 4 and 7: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth....When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

First let us allow the Bible to define "morning stars" and "sons of God."

Stars are frequently used in the Bible to represent angels. Jesus gives this definition of stars in Revelation 1:20: "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." In this verse, angels are also further symbolic of the ministerial leadership--the messengers--of the seven churches.

We also note that Lucifer, whom we understand to be the name of Satan before he became the enemy of God and fell from Heaven, is called a morning star in Isaiah 14:12 (NASB): "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn!"

So who were these "morning stars" who "sang together" when God "laid the foundations of the earth"? They must be the angels.

Now then, who were the "sons of God" who "shouted for joy" when God "laid the foundations of the earth"?

We tend to skim over briefly the genealogies in the Bible. But the one in Luke gives us an important definition of terms at its end: "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3:38)

Here Adam is called "the son of God." Using this definition, it implies to us that Job 38:7 must be talking about the angels of God singing, and other Adams on other worlds shouting for joy. Of course, when the foundations of the earth were being laid, Adam did not exist yet. So these other Adams who shouted for joy must live on other planets that had already been created, so they could witness the foundations of the earth being laid.

Now, Hebrew poetry can be characterized by repetition, with a statement being followed by a parallel statement. "Sons of God" could be an alternate way of referring to the angels, if this is the case. However, Hebrew poetry can also present contrasting ideas. That the latter is the case seems to be indicated by the fact that the morning stars do something different--sing together--while the sons of God shout for joy. Shouting is not the same thing as singing. And we do have the fact that the Bible does supply different meanings for these two groups.

So I would suggest that we do have here the idea that other "Adams" on other worlds were the ones who shouted for joy when the foundations of the earth were being laid.

[Klapas]

Heb 1:1-5 - God made "the worlds" through Jesus Christ.

Job chapter 1 - the "sons of God" come together and meet with God.

"The morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. {PP 47.1}

Originally Posted By: Klapas

So is Jesus "in charge" of every planet and it's occupants or are there others?

In Colossians 1 and John 1 - Jesus is the maker and sustainer of everything. He is the God of all.

The only planet Satan is claiming -- is this one according to Matt 4 and 2Cor 10.

Daniel 5 speaks of the "Holy Watchers" who "pass judgment" on the king of Babylon.

Daniel 7 describes a great judgment scene in heaven where "myriads and myriads" are in the court room "the court sat and the books were opened" (at a point just before the 2nd coming).

And in Rev 12 "the accuser of the brethren has been cast down to the earth - knowing that he has but a short time" just after the cross.

I'm sorry guys, but these Bible quotations (that you posted) alone do not conclude that life exists outside of Earth. Only when you read EGWs writings can you then read through the Bible and pick verses out of context to support her writings.

I can not find one Christian church that believes that these verses are referring to aliens. Can you?

Earlier you said Only SDAs have a model that is anchored so as not to be deceived by it. If believing in aliens was important to GOD, He would have been a little clearer in His bible. GOD said let us make man in our image, so HE made us. HE did not say let us make another man in our image.

[John317]

Only SDAs have a model that is anchored so as not to be deceived by it.

The Bible alone gives people enough knowledge of God and of the truth to be able to avoid the deceptions of Satan in the last days.

[John317]

I'm sorry, but the SDAs I know quit their jobs, sold up their nice homes in the city and moved their families to the country, home schooled their kids, lived like hippies and survived on welfare for the last 20 years.

You mentioned that you have an SDA friend as well as an SDA relative. What are they like?