The Real Problem With Obamacare

[bonnie]

John Hinderaker in Health Care

The Real Problem With Obamacare…

…is not that it will cost too much, or even that it will worsen our medical care, although both of those things are true. The real problem with socialized medicine–the eventual establishment of which is the purpose of Obamacare, according to Barack Obama–is that it will destroy our freedom. Mark Steyn has written that government medicine alters forever the relationship between state and citizen: once you are dependent on the government for your health care, you are no longer a freeborn citizen. You are the subject of an all-powerful state.

So Michael Ramirez hits the nail on the head: the trouble with Obamacare is that it will destroy our freedom, perhaps forever:

[Dr. Shane]

Mark Steyn is one of those radical right-wing commentators. Obama can do nothing right in his eyes. I pretty much have to dismiss the opinion of Obama-haters like Mark.

[olger]

Does Mark have a right to dislike Obama's policies? Sure. That doesn't automatically make him full of hatred.

[Dr. Shane]

Mark shows his true colors in that he doesn't dislike one or two of Obama's policies. It isn't 50% or even 80% of Obama's policies that he dislikes. According to Mark, Obama can do nothing right. That is what makes him an Obama-hater. He can say no good about the man. Thus when he criticizes Obama, it is very hard to take him seriously.

[bonnie]

Does Mark have a right to dislike Obama's policies? Sure. That doesn't automatically make him full of hatred.

Of course it does.Unless you have a entitlement mentality and enjoy a failure of a president it goes without saying you are full of hate.

[Dr. Shane]

...it goes without saying you are full of hate.

No, I think it needs to be said. Some folks will simply swallow what these hate-mongers are selling hook, line and sinker. Independent thinkers need to point out who the hate-mongers are and sound a warning.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

...it goes without saying you are full of hate.

No, I think it needs to be said. Some folks will simply swallow what these hate-mongers are selling hook, line and sinker. Independent thinkers need to point out who the hate-mongers are and sound a warning.

That is simply swallowing that you are an Independent thinker.

Some don't believe independent thinking follows the government hook,line and sinker routine.

[bonnie]

I spent a few days listening to talk radio to see where your loathing and hatred comes from. You can describe it as you wish but it is exactly what you accuse right wing commentators of.

After a few days it became quite obvious. They do not agree with your sacred cow and the way you want it implemented.I am sure there are other issues but what comes across clearly is their view of entitlements.I am assuming their view does not stem from a SDA understanding of bible prophecy but they have a very similar view of where we are headed.

They seem to instinctively understand what the bible so clearly spells out ,both for those that have more and for the ones that have less.Independent thinking is adhering to government "religion".Government/independent thinking says it is alright to take from others to avoid hard work on a personal level.It says you cannot get a college education without the government. Or without it you cannot succeed or be taken seriously.Independent thinkers believe if I am poor it is someone else's fault if I scam the system.If I have to search for a lawyer that can and will bend and twist the rules,it is not my fault.I am poor and he should not have been there.

I don't believe I can afford independent thinking.I am going to have to accept God's inspired word on all subjects.Not the inspired word of government or someone's independent thinking.

I am safer taking to heart the parable of the "lazy and wicked servant" and yes,the "parable of the vineyard" and what that means,than the uninspired words of a so-called independent thinker

[bonnie]

Just a little aside.

My great uncle was in the MT State Legislature during the Roosevelt presidency.

Researching the family history we were fortunate enough to come across several letters my uncle had written/received to others in government and family members.

He was not SDA. His letters could have been written today with what he realized would happen. He could not have spelled out more clearly where "entitlements" would lead were he alive today.

What it would mean to the country,but above all what it would do to the human spirit.Destroying the belief in your personal ability to work hard and obtain your goals.He believed that there were those in government that wanted as many dependent on them under the guise of unselfishness as possible

Amazing isn't it. Right wing talk radio before it existed

[Dr. Shane]

Entitlements are a fantastic part of the American system. Post-WW2 we have become a very prosperous nation because of our anti-poverty programs. America truly is wonderful. Now I think big government has gone too far in some areas where they have over-regulated and helped labor unions too much but that is a fine line to walk.

[olger]

The only Obama thing I agree with so far is... wait for it...

He planted a garden at the White House.

[Dr. Shane]

1. He reformed the credit card companies

2. He revamped the student loan program

3. He increased troop levels in Afghanistan

4. He killed Osama bin Laden

5. He killed Somalian pirates

6. He has stopped the construction of doctors' hospitals

7. Cash for clunkers replaced a lot of bad cars with more efficient cars

8. He prevented the American auto industry from bankruptcy

9. He cut the payroll tax as a means of a stimulus

10. He has drastically increased deporting illegal aliens with a focus on deporting those with criminal offenses.

So there are ten thing I can think of off the top of my head.

[olger]

#4 He got out of the way.

#5 see above..

#8 Should have let the market alone. He did it for his precious unions btw. Ford did fine without his 'help' thank you very much.

#9 Get out of the way of small business altogether and we'll have something.

rejoice always,

g

[bonnie]

#4 He got out of the way.

#5 see above..

#8 Should have let the market alone. He did it for his precious unions btw. Ford did fine without his 'help' thank you very much.

#9 Get out of the way of small business altogether and we'll have something.

rejoice always,

g

Payroll tax cut is temporary. Obama's little fix that is laughed at by most business owners. They fear what they will be facing in his second term without the need to buy votes

[bonnie]

Liberals ignore the cost of Obama's generosity with the money of others.

His student loan fix amounts to a few dollars a month per student

which all are eager to grab.It will cost millions to taxpayers.Hurting those he so laughingly claims to be for.

HIs cash for clunkers had it's own cost in addition to the cost per vehicle.

Those on a tight budget have a very difficult time finding cheaper older models they can purchase,instead having to go to the late model cars.Salvage yards are also hard hit. Some have closed here after decades in business due to the lack of second hand parts.Relying on accident vehicles isn't enough.Others have hiked their prices dramatically.

I recently tried to buy a used part for my 98 Chev.Called all in the surrounding area,was told to call Obama.If they did happen to get one in,instead of the 10.00 it normally would cost I could expect to pay at least 40.00.Buying new from the Chevy dealer would be 150.00

Thanks Obama for your care and concern for the working class.Like everything he touches,it costs more.Not sure how much more of his brand of savings I can handle

[phkrause]

Liberals ignore the cost of Obama's generosity with the money of others.

His student loan fix amounts to a few dollars a month per student

which all are eager to grab.It will cost millions to taxpayers.Hurting those he so laughingly claims to be for.

HIs cash for clunkers had it's own cost in addition to the cost per vehicle.

Those on a tight budget have a very difficult time finding cheaper older models they can purchase,instead having to go to the late model cars.Salvage yards are also hard hit. Some have closed here after decades in business due to the lack of second hand parts.Relying on accident vehicles isn't enough.Others have hiked their prices dramatically.

I recently tried to buy a used part for my 98 Chev.Called all in the surrounding area,was told to call Obama.If they did happen to get one in,instead of the 10.00 it normally would cost I could expect to pay at least 40.00.Buying new from the Chevy dealer would be 150.00

Thanks Obama for your care and concern for the working class.Like everything he touches,it costs more.Not sure how much more of his brand of savings I can handle

Because people blame Obama doesn't mean its true. So I than take its also Obama's fault that the cost of a lift support for my Mom's '91 Ford Escort wagon is $100 from the dealer but only around $30 from auto parts stores? I don't think so, Ford didn't get any bailout money now did they?

[Dr. Shane]

His student loan fix amounts to a few dollars a month per student

which all are eager to grab.

My payments are going from $900/month to $400/month. In my income bracket, that really makes a difference.

[Dr. Shane]

His cash for clunkers had it's own cost in addition to the cost per vehicle.

The program reduced our dependence of foreign oil and actually impacted world-wide demand for oil. It was a very good program. AND... let's not forget... it boosted demand for new vehicles and thus saved many jobs in the automotive manufacturing industry.

Let's not hate Obama but give him credit where credit is due.

[bonnie]

Because people blame Obama doesn't mean its true. So I than take its also Obama's fault that the cost of a lift support for my Mom's '91 Ford Escort wagon is $100 from the dealer but only around $30 from auto parts stores? I don't think so, Ford didn't get any bailout money now did they?

Apples and oranges. Ford didn't need a bailout,they took care of business.If I buy from a auto parts store I would expect it to be cheaper.Gauging their overhead for their supply store,compared to the overhead of my local Chevy dealer the difference in price is self explanatory.

If I buy from the dealer I expect to pay more.I do not expect to be told from a salvage yard,sorry we don't have any parts and if we did you are going to pay far more

due to the government induced shortage.

I don't expect salvage businesses to go under because they can no longer get the salvage cars they need.

Didn't really care for the 24,000.00 per vehicle either.Many that saw a artificial surge in business were not to happy with the sudden induced downturn either.

[bonnie]

My payments are going from $900/month to $400/month. In my income bracket, that really makes a difference.

How do you qualify?

Past students not eligible for Obama loan bailout

byConn Carroll Senior Editorial Writer

The Atlantic's Daniel Indiviglio has a good piece on President Obama's new student loan executive order showing that the program will only save the average graduate less than $10 a month. Indiviglio writes:

Of all these parts of Obama's executive order, the loan forgiveness aspect will have the least impact. By moving the timeline from 25 to 20 years, it could be significant in the long run -- but it won't be felt for decades. Remember, 82% of the current student loan debt outstanding was accrued in just the past decade. So it will be at least another 10 years before any of those borrowers have hit the 20-year mark in their student loan payments.

Actually it's a lot weaker even than that. Indiviglio appears to have overlooked the fact former students -- the vast majority of those who have racked up student debt over the last decade -- won't qualify for the program. The College Fix reports:

To qualify for the income-based repayment program, however, a borrower’s loan must have originated during or after 2008, and have at least one loan that originated in 2012 or later. Thus, if you graduated in 2011 or earlier, you don’t qualify.

In other words, this plan is forward looking only. If you have already graduated, can't find a job, and are occupying a tent in a park, you don't qualify. Most people who heard Obama's speech, have debt, and graduated over the past ten years, probably think they will benefit from Obama's plan. These potential voters are all in for a big disappointment when they find out they don't qualify for Obama's latest bailout.

[W]hether or not you can benefit from the new 10% cap depends on when you took out your first student loan. You may qualify if:

* You took out all of your loans in 2012 or later (future students)

* You took out the loans in question after 2008 and a loan after 2012 (mostly current students)

So if you graduated college in 2011, then you don't qualify. (But you could still qualify for the 15% cap. I'm just considering Obama's executive order here.)

Finally, if you're already in default, then you won't qualify.

[bonnie]

Because people blame Obama doesn't mean its true. So I than take its also Obama's fault that the cost of a lift support for my Mom's '91 Ford Escort wagon is $100 from the dealer but only around $30 from auto parts stores? I don't think so, Ford didn't get any bailout money now did they?

Yes,this particular issue belongs to Obama.

The Ford dealer has every right to charge what the market will bear to make a profit and cover expenses.

I don't expect people in business to run a charity program.

The local beauty salon charges 110.00 for a haircut and perm.They have a large salon to pay for and employees to cover. A friend of mine is a non-employed licensed beautician.She does hair care for friends and family and charges 40.00. She does not have the expenses to cover. I am also a licensed beautician and can do it myself if I absolutely had to for the cost of the perm.

Buying from the supply house for each of us is minimal.Last time I checked it was 3.00 per perm.

The professional beauty salon needs to charge what they do.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

My payments are going from $900/month to $400/month. In my income bracket, that really makes a difference.

How do you qualify?

I got a letter in the mail. Filled it out and sent it back. I think the author of the article you posted is only looking at a single program. Obama did more than just that. So are you know willing to admit Obama did something good?

[phkrause]

Well its not apple and oranges, its the same. Prices on things have gone up for years. This has nothing to do with Obama. But if that's what you need to believe fine.

[bonnie]

Well its not apple and oranges, its the same. Prices on things have gone up for years. This has nothing to do with Obama. But if that's what you need to believe fine.

Prices at selvage yards have not gone from 10.00 to 40.00 in a few short weeks. Not until induced due to government sponsored unavailability.

Older cars that were still in reasonable running condition could be purchased for 2,000.00-2500.00 around here prior to cash for clunkers.Enabling those on a very tight budget to still have reasonably reliable transportation.Now you will pay a premium price. I almost fell over when I found out what someone would pay for my 98 Cavalier with 145,000 miles on it.

That is squarely in Obama's lap

[bonnie]

I got a letter in the mail. Filled it out and sent it back. I think the author of the article you posted is only looking at a single program. Obama did more than just that. So are you know willing to admit Obama did something good?

Not until you give me a very good reason to help subsidize your reduction.There is a cost to this as there isn't any government free lunch.

You are able bodied,educated,have a good job.You mentioned before this would mean your wife would not have to work to help educate your children

Tell me why others should pay so your wife can stay home.Millions of women work to help with their childrens education,why should your family be any different?I cleaned a lot of houses to help educate our children without your help