Is salvation the whole purpose?

[Gerr]

What if I had posted that the Lord had come to me in a vision and wanted me to share this with you?

Would I get an Amen then?

Or would you say it was false prophecy?

KJV 1900 | ‎Is 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: If they speak not according to this word, It is because there is no light in them.

[Gerr]

Oddly Gibs I don't see to many that have that kind of peace you speak of. I see more people fighting over the fine points of theology.

Yet I see a great number of pagans so at peace it blows your mind

I see Buddhists that have that peace

I see Atheists that have that peace

I have seen Christians that have it - but their numbers as so small in comparison.

You can't see the turmoil that may be going on in the mind of a person who seems outwardly at peace.

[Gibs]

G. Cabalo,

They have a kind of a peace same as one who is not a Christian, until they are finally nudgeded by the Holy Spirit to look into eternal life and find the law which points out sin and like Paul says, then I died. They had a false peace before that of presumption not based on the Rock, Jesus Christ.

No one will ever have "the peace that passeth understanding" untill they have found the one and only true salvation to eternal life.

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

The Holy Spirit does keep working on the hearts of all to find the true way and because of that can never have true peace. It keeps nudging and prodding until they finally grieve Him away. Then they have a peace of this world without any hope for anything but a short few years of life in this wicked no peace world ruled by tyrants.

We are appointed once to die but we can have eternal life today but it is conditional that we stay with Him in Truth and Spirit doing His Will and our will always His Will.

We rest in His Arms and are safe and especially in the Sabbath.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BibleOnly]

We rest in His Arms and are safe and especially in the Sabbath.

You rest in Jesus, but more so in the Sabbath ?

[robert hickman]

Interesting post. " My answer would be that Israel is the central part of God's plan", I must disagree with this statement. At the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel or 490 years of probation when the Roman General Titus destroyed the Temple the only ones that escaped were the Jewish Christians(Those that had accepted Christ.) There is no salvation for the remainder of Israel except the salvation that is open to all. Repent or die. There won't be any Israelites riding into Heaven on Abrahams coatails. Only one way to get there & thats through Jesus Christ.

[M. T. Cross]

So I am gonna go ahead and assume noone thinks what I said in my original post might be a possibility.

[Q.E.D.]

Oddly Gibs I don't see to many that have that kind of peace you speak of. I see more people fighting over the fine points of theology.

Yet I see a great number of pagans so at peace it blows your mind

I see Buddhists that have that peace

I see Atheists that have that peace

I have seen Christians that have it - but their numbers as so small in comparison.

Fighting over the fine points of theology has nothing to do with the "peace of God, which passeth ALL understanding."

"7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."(Phil 4:7)

Pagans, Buddhists, and athiests can only have the peace that JESUS CHRIST gives when they follow THE LIGHT that has been given them by the One, True, and Living God.

"9 That was the true Light, which lighteth EVEY MAN that cometh into the world."(John 1:9)

"165 ¶ Great peace have they which LOVE THY LAW: and nothing shall offend them."(Ps 119:165)

Q.E.D.

[BibleOnly]

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Oddly Gibs I don't see to many that have that kind of peace you speak of. I see more people fighting over the fine points of theology.

Yet I see a great number of pagans so at peace it blows your mind

I see Buddhists that have that peace

I see Atheists that have that peace

I have seen Christians that have it - but their numbers as so small in comparison.

Pagans, Buddhists, and athiests can only have the peace that JESUS CHRIST gives when they follow THE LIGHT that has been given them by the One, True, and Living God.

"9 That was the true Light, which lighteth EVEY MAN that cometh into the world."(John 1:9)

"165 ¶ Great peace have they which LOVE THY LAW: and nothing shall offend them."(Ps 119:165)

Q.E.D.

We could argue about which kind of peace is better but we would have each had to have experienced the kind of peace that all those different belief systems give to actually be able to honestly do that.

Of course I think that there is more than one true and living God..........

[BibleOnly]

Of course I think that there is more than one true and living God..........

Given the degree to which those gods disagree with one another, how does that work ?

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Of course I think that there is more than one true and living God..........

Given the degree to which those gods disagree with one another, how does that work ?

Quite easily. I am a true and living human being. So are all the people I disagree with.

However, with that said, are we so sure that the Gods are disagreeing with each other, or their followers interpret what the Gods have said in ways that disagree with each other? I mean just look at the followers of Christian God. They sure seldom agree with each other.

[ClubV12]

BibleOnly, "Spiritual Israel" not literal Israel. All those who accept Christ are a part of spiritual Israel. The Jewish Nation sealed their fate in 34 AD when they stoned Stephen, it was over for them.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

There are two things more important than our salvation:

1) God's glory.

2) Other people's salvation,

g

If that is true Olger then why do we hear so much more about Gods wrath than his glory?

"We" don't.

regards

[Overaged]

Can I get an AMEN up in here?

AMEN!

[BibleOnly]

BibleOnly, "Spiritual Israel" not literal Israel. All those who accept Christ are a part of spiritual Israel. The Jewish Nation sealed their fate in 34 AD when they stoned Stephen, it was over for them.

Rubbish. The Bible never says that. In fact, as I showed, all those who 'accept Christ' ( not really a biblical term, but I'll let it go ), are those who rule over israel. How can the church both be changed, and rule over itself ?

[ClubV12]

A subject for another thread BibleOnly.

Spiritual Israel vs the fallacy of literal Israel.

[BibleOnly]

A subject for another thread BibleOnly.

Spiritual Israel vs the fallacy of literal Israel.

I agree. I suggest you start it, and call it 'is God a liar'

[Ron Amnsn]

The Jewish Nation sealed their fate in 34 AD when they stoned Stephen, it was over for them.

That teaching is not found in Scripture.

Not only is it not found in Scripture, but it is contrary to what is written in Scripture.

The whole New Testament was written after AD 34, yet we find several places where the New Testament authors say that the Jewish nation is still central in God's plan.

Just one example is John 11:51 where it states that Caiphas prophesied correctly that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation. That would be an odd thing for John to write after AD 34 if what you assert was actually true. Obviously John didn't believe that "it was over for them" after AD 34.

Paul didn't believe what you say either. If Paul had been teaching what you teach, the Bereans would not have been able to confirm Paul's teachings by searching the Old Testament scriptures, because God himself told the OT prophets to write the opposite of what you assert. And in Romans 9-11 Paul himself directly refutes what you have asserted.

Revelation reveals that the 144,000 are made up of 12,000 from each of 12 tribes of Israel.

Jesus prophesied that the disciples would sit on thrones ruling the 12 tribes of Israel (Luke 22:30).

[ClubV12]

"Revelation reveals that the 144,000 are made up of 12,000 from each of 12 tribes of Israel."

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, not literal Israel, the same ones that rejected and crucified Christ and killed Stephen in 34 AD.

[BibleOnly]

"Revelation reveals that the 144,000 are made up of 12,000 from each of 12 tribes of Israel."

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, not literal Israel, the same ones that rejected and crucified Christ and killed Stephen in 34 AD.

Where does the Bible say this ? I thought that some good points were raised, and now two people have pointed out that Jesus said that Christians would rule over Israel. How does the church rule over itself ? How do you do a bait and switch to disregard the promises of God, by making them basically a word game and a lie ?

[John317]

A subject for another thread BibleOnly.

Spiritual Israel vs the fallacy of literal Israel.

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

I agree. I suggest you start it, and call it 'is God a liar'

Nobody is suggesting that God is a liar; they are saying that the verses don't signify what you believe they do.

[BibleOnly]

God made promises to Israel. You claim He knew He would never keep them and justified it with a word game.

I am happy to discuss it if you start a thread.

[John317]

Yes, of course God made promises to Israel, and God also made threats. God's promises and threatening are conditional, based on the response of people.

Deut. 28 is a good example of this. God gives people real choices and these choices have real consequences.

God's promise to save you is not unconditional. There are conditions to salvation. Do you believe this?

[John317]

God made promises to Israel. You claim He knew He would never keep them and justified it with a word game.

NO word game. No game, period.

If you believe it is, show why you think as you do.

[BibleOnly]

"God's promise to save you is not unconditional. There are conditions to salvation. Do you believe this?"

Of course, individual salvation can be lost. And some of the promises to Israel were conditional. But, not all.

"If you believe it is, show why you think as you do"

Simply because you can't take the promises to Israel and say 'no, they apply to Spiritual Israel'. It's like me making promises to my wife then telling her, no, I meant my next wife when I leave you.