BibleOnly Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly those who lived and died before Christ returns, are judged after the second coming. I disagree with this statement. The 1000 years are used to show why those that are not there are not there. So that each family can see for themselves why members of there family were lost. Over the course of 1000 years ? So they all live that long ? What about the parable of the sheep and goats ? Is that about the church, saved by their works ?
BibleOnly Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly Hi Bob. You're lots of fun I bet if I said the Bible says the earth is round, you'd come back to say it was flat. I don't understand the correlating tie in to Bob's post in the proceeding points. Neither do I understand the spirit and nature of the above statement. Bob is fun because he'll disagree with anything I say, no matter what it is.
ClubV12 Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 The wicked dead are NOT raised at Christs 2nd coming, they remain dead until the END of the 1,000 year "judgment/review" process. THEN they are raised to face the results of the judgment, THAT is when every knee shall bow and God will be vindicated that His ways are merciful and just. All the dead SAINTS are raised at His 2nd coming and along with the living Saints are caught up in the clouds to be forever more with the Lord. The living wicked are killed by the glory of the 2nd coming.
Members phkrause Posted December 4, 2011 Members Posted December 4, 2011 Over the course of 1000 years ? So they all live that long ? Not sure what you are saying here??? But when Jesus comes and takes us to heaven, this is called the first resurrection of the second coming. Than after the 1000 years when we come back to the new earth the dead or the so called wicked are raised, the 2nd resurrection, and this is when all knees shall bow before him. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
BibleOnly Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 The wicked dead are NOT raised at Christs 2nd coming, they remain dead until the END of the 1,000 year "judgment/review" process. THEN they are raised to face the results of the judgment, THAT is when every knee shall bow and God will be vindicated that His ways are merciful and just. All the dead SAINTS are raised at His 2nd coming and along with the living Saints are caught up in the clouds to be forever more with the Lord. The living wicked are killed by the glory of the 2nd coming. Most of this is true. The 'living wicked' are not killed, however. Where does the Bible say that ? What is the point of the 1000 years, if it's just the church that is alive ? When Jesus said the church would judge Israel, how can that be, if they are dead ?
BibleOnly Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 "Not sure what you are saying here???" The purpose of the 1000 years is for families to work out where members who told everyone they would disappear one day, disappeared to ? I don't know who was in my family 100 years ago, let alone 1000. "But when Jesus comes and takes us to heaven, this is called the first resurrection of the second coming. Than after the 1000 years when we come back to the new earth the dead or the so called wicked are raised, the 2nd resurrection, and this is when all knees shall bow before him." Yes, and what happens inbetween ? The restoration of Israel.
ClubV12 Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 The restoration of Israel as a Nation? Uh,,, no, that aint gonna happen, now, then or in a 1,000 years. Adam will review the books of heaven, during that 1,000 period, to see why some of his children aren't there, in heaven, with him. His sons and daughters that aren't there, didn't disappear, there still dead. Still sleeping, still waiting for the end of the judgment time. Perhaps you will want to review why some of your siblings aren't there, with you, in heaven. Every person with a question about anybody will have a chance to review the judgment of God. The wicked dead are not raised at the 2nd coming because the judgment and review has not yet taken place. The living wicked are killed by His glory because no one can stand in the sight of a Holy God without the covering of Jesus righteousness. Thus the living wicked, now dead, simply join those who died before them in death. All the wicked remain "asleep" until the final review is over, a 1,000 years later. We will NOT be on the earth during this time. The earth will have been largely destroyed by the seven last plagues and is uninhabitable. No living human will be on the earth during this time. There is no "second chance" for anybody. No more "healing", no more "instruction", it's over. The fate of all the earth since time began was set BEFORE the 2nd coming actually takes place. The review of all those decisions will take place in Heaven. Now here's where so many get confused on the Israel part. When Jesus returns, with all His Saints, at the end of the 1,000 year review, He will set up His Kingdom, the New Jerusalem, in the land of Israel! THAT is how so many stumble over Israel as being related to some future event and being re-established as a Nation. That LOCATION remains a sacred one, the people in that location at the present time and on into the time of His 2nd coming, aren't anymore special than anyone else. Each of us, individually may decide to follow Christ. Jew or Gentile. In Germany, the USA or Israel, where ever you live. You can be a part of God's chosen people today.
BibleOnly Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 It seems to me that you are reading comic books. It also seems to me that you don't think God keeps His promises.
Dr. Rich Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 BibleONly, Which 'Gospel' are you speaking of? The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as Jesus came to this earth to testify to, OR the gospel that Paul taught, which was NOT the same as the Gospel of the Kingom of Heaven? Remember, it is the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 24) that must be given to the whole world prior to Jesus coming in the clouds. Jesus never said anything about Him coming to this earth to die for everyone and do away with sin. He also never said anything about becoming righteous through faith or being saved by grace--AND He had ample time and opportunity to do so IF it were true, both before He died and after He died and even after He went back to Heaven. The Rich Young Ruler asked the question most of probably asked and Jesus answered Him truthfully. Keep all of the Ten Commandments and Follow Jesus by reading and understanding His words given to us by ONLY His eyewitnesses. It's just that simple. In fact, Jesus said He did not come to this world to change anything! He said He came to testify to the truth, (John 18:37) those being the words of the Father, the ones that the Father gave to the Son to say so that the eyewitness disciples could hear them and would remember them truthfully (John 14:26) and would be able to write them down truthfully too (John 17:17-21) so that those of us who choose to obey may have eternal life. What I have shared here is not MY gospel, but it is the ONLY true gospel, the one Jesus gave.
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 "The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as Jesus came to this earth to testify to, OR the gospel that Paul taught, which was NOT the same as the Gospel of the Kingom of Heaven?" Oh, I see. You're one of those. Please explain how Paul deviates from the Gospel, and explain why God allowed Paul to write so much of the new testament ( starting with who appeared to him and converted him ). Just for kicks, you understand, I'm not saying I think it's remotely possible, or that you have any credibility with me if you claim it's true. "In fact, Jesus said He did not come to this world to change anything!" Rubbish. Jesus often spoke that He came to die so the Spirit could be given. He said 'a new commandment I give to you'. He did not come to maintain the status quo. Why would Jesus die, so nothing could change. Jesus actually lived the only perfect life under the law, He fulfilled it by His death, which He could because He lived by it. In that sense, Jesus' life is not a fully accurate picture of everything that it means to be a Christian. Can I ask, is all this heresy the SDA position, or are you not SDA ?
Moderators John317 Posted December 5, 2011 Moderators Posted December 5, 2011 "The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as Jesus came to this earth to testify to, OR the gospel that Paul taught, which was NOT the same as the Gospel of the Kingom of Heaven?" Oh, I see. You're one of those. Please explain how Paul deviates from the Gospel, and explain why God allowed Paul to write so much of the new testament ( starting with who appeared to him and converted him ) .....Rubbish. Jesus often spoke that He came to die so the Spirit could be given. He said 'a new commandment I give to you'. He did not come to maintain the status quo. Why would Jesus die, so nothing could change. ...Can I ask, is all this heresy the SDA position, or are you not SDA ? I agree that what Dr. Rich has said about Paul is rubbish. And no, it is most definitely NOT the SDA position. Dr. Rich claims to be SDA and his name is on the church books, but he teaches many false doctines contrary to the what the SDA church believes and teaches. He certainly does not represent the teachings of the SDA Church. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Thanks for confirming that. I'm getting the impression the SDA is a wide range of beliefs on everything bar the Sabbath but it's good to know he's not mainstream.
ClubV12 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 There is the official beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church and then there is this web site. Two different things. HERE we have a great variety of folks that are X Adventist, professed Adventists, anti-Adventists and Adventists that support the official doctrines of the Adventist church. Much of the time it is difficult to separate them all. Even I struggle with that, it takes time but eventually it starts to come clear. It's the "internet" you can't believe everything you read here. Some posts by some individuals I don't even read, sometimes I just do a quick scan of what they have said. I don't dwell on posts that I KNOW are very likely to contain a LOT of error. Bear in mind, sometimes a response to a any given post is not so much to answer the poster, it is for the broader edification of those reading the thread.
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Fair enough. I knew that, but this is an SDA focused website, and the SDA girl I know, didn't quite go this far, but did criticise me for 'believing Paul instead of Jesus'.
Dr. Rich Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Fair enough. I knew that, but this is an SDA focused website, and the SDA girl I know, didn't quite go this far, but did criticise me for 'believing Paul instead of Jesus'. That girl was right. John 317 actually thinks he too is a SDA and his name is on the church books, but it is my opinion that his teaching are not the same as what Jesus said and taught and given to us by His eyewitnesses. Jesus did not teach from the same bible as what the Pagan Constitine put together in order to have a foundational book for Pagans, Jews and Christians. Research it yourself! If you believe that the original bible established by Constitine was God's words and used as the foundation for the Catholic (universal) church, then so be it. John 18:37 tells us from the lips of Jesus why He came to this earth to do. Problem is, one MUST first be of the real truth to understand what Jesus said. The Ten Virgins (Advenists) have been lulled into spiritual sleep mistakenly believing they all will be saved by grace. Problem with this is that there is absolutly NO GRACE given to anyone in this same prophecy. Therefore, it is my opinion that when John317 states that my teaching is rubbish, he is actually saying that what Jesus taught was also rubbish. Why? Because I do not teach anything OTHER than exactly what Jesus said and taught. It's just that simple!
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I know who Constantine was, I am actually reading a book on the Roman Empire now, but I always knew. He was sincere in his belief, why do you think otherwise ? When the devil tries to use people to fool others, he simply fools them. As he has done with you. What you teach is absolute drivel, the idea that God could not deliver a salvation message to the world for the simple and the faithful. Your faith is based on the idea that God has no power. I have no interest in discussing that, because you cut out everything Jesus did, He said often that His goal was to send the Spirit, after He died. He did that. You believe that if He did, there is no record of it, so we can have no idea what it means. I don't know how to come back to that, so I'll just leave you to follow your conscience and pray for you to be saved.
Dr. Rich Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Read John 20:21-22 and you will see that Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His disciples before the alleged event found in Acts 2. They can't both be the truth, so please tell me and explain which event do you think was the real truth?
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 *sigh* this is a waste of my time. You're right, they can't both be true the way you read it, although others here disagree. Did Jesus then appear to you and breathe on you when you became a Christian ? Were you smoking dope at the time ?
Dr. Rich Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 It does not make any difference who or what I am and my own opinions as to what the real truth is and what Jesus said about it. Remember, truth is singular and absolute. If you think you are wasting your time in learning the real truth, that is your choice. But for me, that means everthing as Revelation 21:8,27 and Rev. 22:15 make is very clear what will happen to ALL who lie, practice and even believe in a lie regarding salvation. If this is is not important to you, that is your choice.
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 This is a stupid word game. I clearly care about truth, I am telling you that you believe a lie.
Dr. Rich Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Ok, I will change then, but only IF you can point out the lie by using the words of Jesus Christ. If you can do that, then please do so because I surly do NOT want to be found believing a lie. Thanks And no, it is not a word game either. This is deadly serious. Are you a bond servant of Jesus Christ? If not, then I suppose that you can say you have been set free from having to follow His words and can then follow what other Masters say. But for me, I only have ONE Master and that is Jesus Christ.
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I did. Jesus said believers would speak in tongues, twice. He certainly said that we would do greater works than He, because He was going to His father.
Dr. Rich Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I did. Jesus said believers would speak in tongues, twice. He certainly said that we would do greater works than He, because He was going to His father. Please show me where (what is the post number and to which thread?) I do NOT believe you did show your proof for my believing a lie. And for goodness sake, please show where Jesus said anything about true believers of Jesus Christ speaking in tongues?! I surly could not find this. Jesus didn't speak in tongues but he did speak in parables! In fact, Jesus kept saying over and over "HE WHO HAS EARS, LET HIM HEAR". Jesus was asked by His disciples why He spoke in parables (not tongues) because "Therefore I speak to them in parables: because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, no do they understand." He did this so only those who were of the truth would then understand about the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to those who thought they could hear, this was not granted to them. (See Matt. 13). And NO Jesus never said that "we" would do greater works than He, because Jesus was only talking about the 144k and the 5 wise virgins and you are not one of them right now. He was also only talking TO His own disciples--and not to the whole world. Check it out!
BibleOnly Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 " Jesus didn't speak in tongues but he did speak in parables!" John 3:8 is one of them, but it's also poorly translated. The word wind means Spirit and the word 'sound' means an articulate voice. Mark 16 has Jesus saying that believers will speak in tongues. "And NO Jesus never said that "we" would do greater works than He, because Jesus was only talking about the 144k and the 5 wise virgins and you are not one of them right now. He was also only talking TO His own disciples--and not to the whole world. Check it out!" I guess we'll never know, as no written record exists in your mind of hte 'greater works;' the apostles did after Jesus went to the Father.
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