Q.E.D. Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 " Jesus didn't speak in tongues but he did speak in parables!" John 3:8 is one of them, but it's also poorly translated. The word wind means Spirit and the word 'sound' means an articulate voice. Mark 16 has Jesus saying that believers will speak in tongues. "And NO Jesus never said that "we" would do greater works than He, because Jesus was only talking about the 144k and the 5 wise virgins and you are not one of them right now. He was also only talking TO His own disciples--and not to the whole world. Check it out!" I guess we'll never know, as no written record exists in your mind of hte 'greater works;' the apostles did after Jesus went to the Father. Oh, BibleOnly! Thank you, thank you, oracle of God! Is it too late to go to Guyana with you? Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
BibleOnly Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 It does amuse me how you think the fruits of the Spirit include sarcasm and arrogance. Why do you need to keep going with this ? Who do you have something to prove ? Do you think you'll only be saved if you 'stone the heretic' ?
jasd Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Quote: Quote:BibleOnlyWhat you teach is absolute drivel, [...] *sigh* this is a waste of my time. Quote: Quote:Q.E.DOh, BibleOnly! Thank you, thank you, oracle of God! Is it too late to go to Guyana with you? Quote: Quote:BibleOnlyIt does amuse me how you think the fruits of the Spirit include sarcasm and arrogance. “O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us!” Seems to me that should one so easily ‘dish it out’ – that same one should not be so easily offended nor so reactive upon receiving some of ‘it’ back. For Dr. Rich: Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The “words” of Jesus Christ seem awfully limiting, yes?--unless, of course, Xtianity is more ontological than not: "In the beginning..." - and continues, with the writings of St Paul, the Early Church Fathers, ...with yours, mine, others - contributing to its further development. The more I read of Revelation, the more I begin to suspect that the next 'written' chapter follows an Intertestamental Period, as does Matthew.
BibleOnly Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 jasd - I said that to Dr Rich, who believes the Bible is a lie. I was not sarcastic, but I was direct, because I did not want to encourage this person to keep wasting my time. But, you're saying that neither I nor QED are displaying the fruits ? If that's true, what does that tell you about the fruits, as evidence of the Spirit, or am I and QED both not saved ?
jasd Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 >>...Dr Rich, who believes the Bible is a lie.<< More specifically, I think he believes that St Luke, St Paul, and other anonymous authors diverge from Jesus Christ and from those writings most immediately reflecting the actual words, actions, and events concerning the life of Jesus Christ. St Paul, upon scrutiny does contribute to that view in that he admits to guile and a double tongue. And, the author of Hebrews said: Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, I daresay that all professed ‘believers’ have wilfully sinned since having “received the knowledge of the truth”. That would indicate that Jesus Christ is no longer the direct advocate of those who have “wilfully sinned...”. Dr Rich would rather, I am certain, cling to Jesus Christ’s words, “I am with you always...” Matt 28:20 ...lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. To harmonize Matthew 28:20 with Hebrews 10:26 may necessitate the rejection of a coextensive implication to the words of Jesus Christ. That would entail a structural reformation of an entirely new construct for the idea of a NT ‘sacrifice and redemption’ – atonement. Writ is often obscure. >>I was not sarcastic, but I was direct,<< I suppose that “drivel”, as used, carried other than sarcasm; and indeed, it was direct. >>I did not want to encourage this person to keep wasting my time.<< Be that it was your observation he was wasting your time – the obvious response would have been none at all. >>But, you're saying that neither I nor QED are displaying the fruits ?<< I’m not the right person to comment upon “fruits”. I was simply commenting upon a faux pas. >>If that's true, what does that tell you about the fruits, as evidence of the Spirit, or am I and QED both not saved ?<< I am disinclined to proffer formulaics re salvation. Writ is too imprecise for those of us two millennia removed from Koine Greek. Jesus Christ stated that even “...prostitutes” will enter the Kingdom before ‘many who are righteous’. I don't know that fruits are involved in these words...
BibleOnly Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 So you're saying that you agree that Paul was a heretic, and therefore claim that there's no way to know how to be saved, God being unable to deliver such a message to us ? "Jesus Christ stated that even “...prostitutes” will enter the Kingdom before ‘many who are righteous’. I don't know that fruits are involved in these words..." I agree, what is involved is forgiveness for our past sins and a new way of life.
jasd Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 >>So you're saying that you agree that Paul was a heretic,<< You inferred what was not implied. I was observing how it may have been that Dr Rich arrived at his conclusions re St Paul et al. >>and therefore claim that there's no way to know how to be saved,<< I make no such claim. Matter of fact, I believe my words were, “I am disinclined to proffer formulaics re salvation.” >>God being unable to deliver such a message to us ?<< Gd delivered much that we do not understand – being the corrupt mortals that we are – with all of our biases and predispositions... Quote: Quote:jasd"Jesus Christ stated that even “...prostitutes” will enter the Kingdom before ‘many who are righteous’. I don't know that fruits are involved in these words..." >>I agree, what is involved is forgiveness for our past sins and a new way of life.<< I agree, that what is involved is more and less.
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Did Jesus then appear to you and breathe on you when you became a Christian? Were you smoking dope at the time? Methinks that sounds pretty sarcastic BibleOnly. . . And are you calling someone a dope smoker? I am shocked!!! "The room started spinning. . ." Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 BibleOnly Sez: It does amuse me how you think the fruits of the Spirit include sarcasm and arrogance. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Dr. Rich Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 And Mark knew Jesus and was an eyewitnesses? Hmmm? John 3:8 is clear that the wind goes where it wants and speaks as does the HOLY SPIRIT. This has nothing to do with someone speaking in tongues. Please check out what kind of power the Two Witnesses will have as found in Rev. 11.
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 It's a waste of time talking to someone who can reject any bible verse that does not suit them. The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. But, as I keep saying, it is a waste of time talking to someone who rejects most of the Bible, and regards God as too weak to even control our access to His message.
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 It's a waste of time talking to someone who can reject any bible verse that does not suit them. The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. But, as I keep saying, it is a waste of time talking to someone who rejects most of the Bible, and regards God as too weak to even control our access to His message. Prove it. "I had a dream. . ." Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Dr. Rich Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 It's a waste of time talking to someone who can reject any bible verse that does not suit them. The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. But, as I keep saying, it is a waste of time talking to someone who rejects most of the Bible, and regards God as too weak to even control our access to His message. So, are you saying that God was too weak to keep Satan out of the Garden of Eden? And that God was too weak to keep the tree of Knowledge out of the Garden of Eden too? How come God was too weak to to control all of the people living before the flood to have access to 'His message? By the way, do you actually KNOW what "His message" is--right now? Just what was "IT" that Jesus said He testified to, as found in John 18:37? Wasn't this "IT" "His message"? And I do not "reject" any of the "Bible"--but I do not allow my believe to be built on the "sand" either as Jesus warned us about in Matthew 7:24-27. Only "HIS WORDS" are the rock foundation. Now, show me ONE thing that the writer of Romans said, wrote and taught that was exactly the same as what Jesus said and taught.---PLEASE???? (Other than divorce)
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly It's a waste of time talking to someone who can reject any bible verse that does not suit them. The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. But, as I keep saying, it is a waste of time talking to someone who rejects most of the Bible, and regards God as too weak to even control our access to His message. So, are you saying that God was too weak to keep Satan out of the Garden of Eden? And that God was too weak to keep the tree of Knowledge out of the Garden of Eden too? How come God was too weak to to control all of the people living before the flood to have access to 'His message? By the way, do you actually KNOW what "His message" is--right now? Just what was "IT" that Jesus said He testified to, as found in John 18:37? Wasn't this "IT" "His message"? And I do not "reject" any of the "Bible"--but I do not allow my believe to be built on the "sand" either as Jesus warned us about in Matthew 7:24-27. Only "HIS WORDS" are the rock foundation. Now, show me ONE thing that the writer of Romans said, wrote and taught that was exactly the same as what Jesus said and taught.---PLEASE???? (Other than divorce) I am not really interested, it's too much of an uphill fight. If you can't see that Paul presented the Gospel of Jesus, then you never will. I have no idea of your point regarding God being weak. Satan was allowed in the garden, it was all part of God's plan. I don't see your point.
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly It's a waste of time talking to someone who can reject any bible verse that does not suit them. The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. But, as I keep saying, it is a waste of time talking to someone who rejects most of the Bible, and regards God as too weak to even control our access to His message. Prove it. "I had a dream. . ." Q.E.D. You don't have a concordance ? http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4151&t=KJV You tell me if this word is ever translated as wind and not Spirit in the NT outside of John 3:8. It's certainly translated as Spirit, a lot. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5456&t=KJV is the word translated 'sound'. 1) a sound, a tone a) of inanimate things, as musical instruments 2) a voice a) of the sound of uttered words 3) speech a) of a language, tongue The word is 'phōnē', from which we get words like phonetic. Do I need to link to a definition for you to know that is the sound of words, and not of wind ? Do you deny that it's easy to tell where wind comes from and where it goes ? The stupid editor has mangled my text because it has non ASCII Characters in it. Removing accidentals, the word is 'phone'. Yes, as in 'telephone'.
Dr. Rich Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Yes, and Satan was allowed access to the bible too-as this too was all God's plan (See Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-43 and Rev. 2:2) And yes, Paul DID present what he thought was the Gospel of Jesus, as he said he never learned anything from the eyewitness disciples. However, Jesus never did present a "Gospel of Jesus". Jesus presented the "Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven." Big difference here! "And Jesus was going about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM...." Matt. 4:23 and 9:35 "And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations and then the end shall come." Matt. 24:14 And YES, you do not see my point. It takes eyes to see and ears to hear and special insight (wisdom) to understand and only those of the truth will have those ears, eyes and insight. (Matt. 18:37, Dan. 12:3 and 10) Point is: God gave all man kind the power of choice. Adam would not have had a power of choice without both trees in the garden and a command to obey God. No one would have a power of choice to obey the words of Jesus or of someone else who never knew Jesus IF everything in the bible were true and inspirid by the Holy Spirit. Jesus commanded to obey the ten commandment AND follow Him meaning to obey and abide in His words. (Matt. 19 and Rev. 12:17. Now everyone has a choice to either follow Jesus or to follow Paul and Luke. It's just that simple. The wide road to destruction will be filled with the majority of those who call themselves a christian. Right now, the majority follow the words of Paul. Think about it!
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly The word 'wind' in John 3:8 is the word for Spirit and the word 'sound' means the sound of language, not the sound of wind. Prove it. Q.E.D. Originally Posted By: BibleOnly You don't have a concordance ? http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4151&t=KJV You tell me if this word is ever translated as wind and not Spirit in the NT outside of John 3:8. It's certainly translated as Spirit, a lot. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5456&t=KJV is the word translated 'sound'. 1) a sound, a tone a) of inanimate things, as musical instruments 2) a voice a) of the sound of uttered words 3) speech a) of a language, tongue The word is 'phōnē', from which we get words like phonetic. Do I need to link to a definition for you to know that is the sound of words, and not of wind ? Do you deny that it's easy to tell where wind comes from and where it goes ? The stupid editor has mangled my text because it has non ASCII Characters in it. Removing accidentals, the word is 'phone'. Yes, as in 'telephone'. Very nice Bible Only, Now please tell us all what you have proven. Is this your proof that your babbling in tongues is from the Holy Spirit? 8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.' John 3:8 (Young's Literal Translation) "The answer my friend is blowing in the wind. . ." Q.E.D. I'm sorry you are confused. There is much more scripture that proves what I am saying, this is the only verse that requires any sort of explanation beyond what it says in plain English and therefore it's not the sole text that I base my statements on, or even the main one. However, I have proven that Jesus said that the Spirit's articulate voice is heard whenever someone is born of the Spirit. So, what's your alternative interpretation of this verse ? Yes, I knew YLT does it correctly but I decided to go for the Greek instead of just presenting a more obscure translation.
jasd Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Umm, apology extended. After submitting my above posts, I surfed a few other threads on this board and saw: you were being, simply put, fragged. Like engenders like. So, keep on truckin’... Never mind moi. Moreover, do not let any one or more of a .Org who refuse even to lift up holy hands unto the Lord and shout in their assemblies dissuade you from submitting to the utterances of 'tongues'. However, if done on a false note, it ought be set aside. Rom 8:26 ...but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Well, I appreciate your saying so. 'fragged' is certainly a good word for it :-) Yes, Rom 8:26 tells us why we speak in tongues, because we don't know what to pray for.
Dr. Rich Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 I am sorry you don't know what to pray for. but that's between you and God. I do know what to pray for--knowledge, truth and wisdom to understand it all!
BibleOnly Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 Well, I'm not too proud to believe God when He tells me otherwise, through the writings of those inspired to teach the early church and to write what became our scripture.
Dr. Rich Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 The writings of others who never knew Jesus might be YOUR scripture, but not the true scripture as Jesus verified and ratified.
BibleOnly Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 OK, so we agree that you believe God was too weak to protect His message from being preserved so people could take His book and obey it, and find Him ? Why won't you answer this ? If your god is too weak to protect and deliver words, what can he do to you if you admit it ?
Dr. Rich Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 OK, so we agree that you believe God was too weak to protect His message from being preserved so people could take His book and obey it, and find Him ? Why won't you answer this ? If your god is too weak to protect and deliver words, what can he do to you if you admit it ? No we don't. The whole bible is clearly NOT the inspired word of God, but it does contain the word of God and Jesus verified the Law and the Prophets and His words and teachings as given to us by His eyewitnesses as John 14:26 and 17:17-22 shows. Jesus said that His words were the truth so yes, God clearly preserved the truth so it could be known and so everyone could have a choice to follow Jesus or to follow anyone else's words. Think about it--give me one good reason why anyone needs anything more than the words of Jesus to understand how salvation works? There is one thing that should be pointed out, that when someone says that the whole bible (as we have it today) IS the word of God OR is the inspired word of God (from the Holy Spirit), AND IF anything found in it is actually NOT, then what these people have done is call God and the Holy Spirit a liar. I, for one take this very seriously!
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