Advent Pioneer Speaks in Tongues

[ClubV12]

The traditional view of Adventist is that "tongues" were folks who spoke in a foreign language that men who spoke that language could understand. No doubt that is an accurate position, biblically based on reports of the early church.

But consider the following account by Arthur White referring to unknown tongues! Perhaps we, Adventists, are a bit narrow in our interpretation of tongues?

Several things come to mind with the report you are about to read:

Tongues serve a specific purpose, the interpretation of the speaker follows immediately.

Tongues are rarely required or needed, a gift not distributed to all, but to a few chosen vessels.

Tongues can easily be a misleading sign, easily counterfitted by the devil. It is good to remain skeptical of the messenger and the message until the message can be verified.

Test all things, hold fast that which is good.

There does not appear to be any evidence that tongues are accompanied by wild actions, great feelings of emotion, waving of the hands, great phyical manifestations, etc.

It is a message, through a chosen vessel, to serve a distinct need, to answer a specific question. This is consistent with visions and dreams, they have a distinct purpose and message, there not just for entertainment. They are not dependant on a church service, the gifts can come at any time, anywhere, as the need arises.

The Rescue of S.W. Rhodes

Rhodes had been a significant man promoting the concept of the coming of the Lord in 1844. A powerful speaker for the cause. Following the Great Disappointment, Rhodes went into "hiding" in a remote location in New York. He hunted, fished and had a small garden in this "hide away". He did not wish to return to society. Hiram Edson knew where he was and had journeyed twice, on foot, to the location to persaude him to return to the work, unsuccessfully. In 1849 on a third attempt after walking 14 miles he was impressed to turn back.

He attended a Conference and there met with Brethren Ralph, Belden, James and Ellen White. Hiram Edson told Ralph about Rhodes and was surprised to find Ralph also had been impressed to seek out Rhodes. That evening a half dozen Brethren met for a season of prayer over the matter. Ralph, in secret, asked the Lord to pour out His Spirit upon them if it was His will they should go after Rhodes. While Hiram was asking the Lord is they should go after Rhodes, Brother Ralph began speaking in an unknown tongue to all present. He then offered the interpretation, "Yes, to go with thee."

James and Ellen did not share the same burden for Rhodes and she cautioned Ralph to get a clear duty from the Lord. Sister Whites concern was that it was merely a matter of sympathy on the Brethrens part. The next morning during a season of prayer Ellen White had a vision showing Brother Rhodes in thick darkness, but still bearing the image of Jesus. She saw that it was the will of God that Hiram Edson and Brother Ralph should go.

The men left on the journey, they found Rhodes at work in a field. After conversing for some time Brother Ralph again spoke in a new tongue and gave the interpretation in power. Brother Rhodes consented to return with them and he returned to the work. He had a very effective ministry.

Ellen White had was aware of incidents of tongues is representing scripture before this event and was cool to the idea. However in THIS case, she received a vision confirming it. There were a few other experiences with tongues of minor significance. One calling a man to enter the ministry, the other concerning the ordination of a man in the ministry.

Hiram Edson was a most interesting and Godly man. He had a divine revelation concerning what actually took place in 1844, following the Great Disappointment. That revelation was a key component in explaining to Ellen White what had happened. She later confirmed Edson's account through a vision. It is also

reported Hiram Edson had on occasion prayed for healing of different folks and they were indeed healed, in a miraculous way.

A troubling account of tongues:

Misleading, false or correct for the time and circumstances?

While the early Adventists had accepted the Sabbath there was division over what time it was to start. Brother Joseph Bates was adamant that it should be from 6 pm to 6 pm. While considering this in a season of prayer a fellow believer,

Brother Chamberlain, began speaking in an unkown tongue. The interpretation followed. He asked for a piece of chalk and drew on the floor the face of clock. Confirming Brother Bates position of 6 to 6 for Sabbath observance. This seemingly strong evidence kept the new Sabbath keepers "on the clock" for the next five years or so. Until much bible study and the counsel of the brethren concerning sundown to sundown, instead of 6 to 6, was confirmed as correct through a vision by Ellen White in 1855.

Other early pioneers of the Adventist faith had dreams, confirmed by Ellen White as from God. The "early Church", that is the "Early ADVENTIST" Church was established with great spiritual power. That was a necessary component in a time

of Great Disappointment and confusion. As people were leaving main stream churches, some leaving all their faith behind, some in hiding, many not knowing where to turn. A was a time of extreme spiritual awakening with little structure and organization. Much like the early church of the New Testament, which was also founded with great spiritual power. I think we will see similiar demonstrations when the Adventist church is purified through the shaking that will come in the future. When there will be a return to primitive Godliness.

Not checked for spelling or grammer errors.

[ClubV12]

To hot to handle I reckon,,, a good Adventist wouldn't touch this thread with a 10 foot pole I'm thinking.

I love Adventist history, this is one of the more intriguing historical items I've ever come across. Fascinating!

[BibleOnly]

ClubV12 : Tongues serve a specific purpose, the interpretation of the speaker follows immediately.

This is one use of tongues. The other is prayer, where we do not know what to pray for.

ClubV12 : Tongues are rarely required or needed, a gift not distributed to all, but to a few chosen vessels.

There is no bible verse that says this, instead 1 Cor 12-14 tells us that the manifestation of the Spirit is always given and that when a church gathers it's assumed it's members can speak in tongues, but should refrain from using them in church unless they are willing to interpret

ClubV12 : Tongues can easily be a misleading sign, easily counterfitted by the devil. It is good to remain skeptical of the messenger and the message until the message can be verified.

This is just a made up story. No Bible verse ever comes close to suggesting this.

ClubV12 : Test all things, hold fast that which is good.

There does not appear to be any evidence that tongues are accompanied by wild actions, great feelings of emotion, waving of the hands, great phyical manifestations, etc.

Yes, this is absolutely true, in fact Paul says the reverse in a lot of ways, that use of tongues in the church should be orderly. I doubt Paul ever saw anyone acting the way that some Pentecostals act today, but I have no doubt he'd tell them to stop if he did

ClubV12 : It is a message, through a chosen vessel, to serve a distinct need, to answer a specific question.

Not really, no. There's no Bible verse that says this. And we need to remember, tongues have two purposes, you're talking about tongues in the church, as if it were the only place they are used. Paul says we should also speak 'to ourselves and to God' in tongues. Question - if no man understands tongues, why does God put them in the church instead of just the 'interpretation' part ( which is essentially what the gift of prophecy is ) ?

ClubV12 : This is consistent with visions and dreams, they have a distinct purpose and message, there not just for entertainment.

This I agree with, there is a clear message ( although dreams and visions do not happen as commonly as the voice gifts of 1 Cor 12-14 ). But, it's not like it has to be a *special* message, that needs to be urgently delivered in THIS moment, as opposed to general encouragement from God.

ClubV12 : They are not dependant on a church service, the gifts can come at any time, anywhere, as the need arises.

And yet, Paul is specific, tongues occurs in the church with interpretation, or in private. No-one just spontaneously starts to speak in tongues, they control it, how else could they choose to not do it if there be no interpreter ?

ClubV12 : Not checked for spelling or grammer errors.

*grin* your post or the bit you pasted ? I've stopped correctly spelling errors, I know it can come across as rude, but I do find it jarring.

[ClubV12]

So you think the devil is unable to counterfit the gifts of the spirit? Unable to counterfit tongues?

Dangerous ground there, underestimating your extremely intelligent opponent. We have considerable bible evidence of the cunning and power of the evil one. Counterfitting tongues is piece of cake with his power and knowledge.

In the examples we have of the early "Millerites" at that time, as the Seventh-day Adventist church did not yet exist, we see a few examples of tongues. In all cases, for a specific message followed by an immediate interpretation. By a few people, not a large number. Not in "church", necessarily, but it could happen anywhere. In the case of Rhodes, Hiram and Ralph, in a rather remote field in the woods at least 14 miles from civilization in New York state, when only the three of them were present. In another instance, while a group were meeting discussin the Sabbath. This could have been essentially a "church" meeting, or just someone house where they had gathered.

The detail of the other two tongues events I'm still researching for more detail. Who was involved? Where did it take place? What was said? I find it rather interesting in the details of the first two cases the message was very brief and to the point. By ONE man, a fellow named Ralph in the first instance, another man in the second. Intriguing because the history of Hiram Edson reveals a deeply religious man who himself had divine revelations (some call them visions) and performed some miraculous healings. And yet, he did not personally receive the gift of tongues.

Tongues will never cease does not mean we will have them or see them all the time, they will simply never cease. They COULD come at any time, anywhere. It is clear the gift of tongues served an important and specific use and is not widespread. Outside of the early church, it largely has not been used since. Luther, for example, did not use tongues that we know off. Nor did any of the other reformers around that time frame. They seem to have layed "dormant" until the NEXT "early church" was raised, following the 1844 Great Disappointment event at the close of Daniels 2,300 year prophecy. A very SIGNIFICANT point in time, not just some random date in the 1800's. A date predicted over 2,000 years before!

[BibleOnly]

So you think the devil is unable to counterfit the gifts of the spirit? Unable to counterfit tongues?

[ClubV12]

Recognizing the skill of your opponent is hardly standing in awe, fear or worship of them. It's just a reality check. The Christian is in a war against the forces of darkness, we need to be aware of spirituality of what we face. The devil is very real, as are the good angels. We need to be aware of how to engage the good angels in our defense, how to avoid the league of bad angels waiting to entrap us. Prayer is ONE way, but don't ask for a "miracle" when you place yourself on the evil doers ground. When, by your choices, you invite the evil one to tempt you. We have our part to play, don't be "stupid" by ignoring the solid advice we have been given from the biblical record on how to overcome.

I'm defining the "church" by the prophecies and history of mankind. Daniel plays a significant roll in that history. His visions/prophecies recorded in Daniel 11 and 12, in particular tell of a time span of 2,300 years. You can trace the BEGINNING of that time frame as well as the end. It was universally accepted by biblical scholars of the late 1700's and early 1800's, around the world, that Daniels prophecy would end sometime in the mid 1800's. It was narrowed down, by various scholars, to 1843-1844. If you check the history books what you find is that WORLD WIDE there was a great revival of interest in this prophecy and in reading the scriptures. A great moment of "awakening" for a vast number of people. OUT of that came a group, "Millerites" in America. The followers of William Miller, who preached a second coming of Jesus that would take place in 1844. People sold their homes, their goods, put on white robes, some went very fanatical over it. Others trembled in fear of His soon coming. 1844 came and went, nothing happened. Folks were devastated, it was a Great Disapointment. What they misunderstood was that something BIG really DID happen on that date in 1844. The same date Daniel predicated. But it happend in heaven, not on earth.

But what happened is best left for another thread....

The devil, "doing what God does", like when the devil made the serpants that appeared before Pharoah. But the Moses' staff became a serpent as well, and ate the bad serpants up. Those bad serpants, a clever trick of "magic", a counterfit.

[BibleOnly]

Recognizing the skill of your opponent is hardly standing in awe, fear or worship of them. It's just a reality check. The Christian is in a war against the forces of darkness, we need to be aware of spirituality of what we face. The devil is very real, as are the good angels. We need to be aware of how to engage the good angels in our defense, how to avoid the league of bad angels waiting to entrap us. Prayer is ONE way, but don't ask for a "miracle" when you place yourself on the evil doers ground. When, by your choices, you invite the evil one to tempt you. We have our part to play, don't be "stupid" by ignoring the solid advice we have been given from the biblical record on how to overcome.

[ClubV12]

I won't provide the answers for Daniels prophecy in THIS thread. And your right in many respects, nothing happened and yet something BIG happened. The JW's have a clue, as do many others. This was NOT a "Seventh-day Adventist" event, it was a world wide movement impacting virtually EVERY Christian church on earth. This was not some small group of fanatics like we see today, this thing was HUGE. It took in EVERYBODY!!! It was the talk of the PLANET! Something happened alright, a fascinating history from that time, worth checking out.

BibleOnly says,

"We do NOT engage 'good angels' to be on our side ( how does one do that ? ).

A serious question deserving a serious answer, HOW do we engage the good angels on our behalf? We do not physically war, but THEY do! We fight against the forces of darkness unseen. Our allies are the literal angels of God, BOUND by law and order and our choices. They WILL not "fight" on our behalf (by "fight" I mean they are following Gods command and will for us) if we do not ask and obey the creator. If we choose to sin, the good angels won't be able to protect us, it is against Gods law. We MUST always have a choice. Consider the various rolls the angels played in the bible for or against people. The good angels have great power, but only from God of course. An angel STOPPED MOSES on the road to see Pharoah. He told Moses he was in BIG TROUBLE because he had forgotten to do something that was required of him. Without doing that, the good angels could not protect him from Pharoah. What did Moses forget? Circumcision, at that time, for him, a requirement to retain favor with God, and as a result, the help of God's angels for protection. To warrant the favor of God and the help of His angels, Moses physically had to do SOMETHING besides JUST pray. We DO have our part to play in this Great Controversy.

[BibleOnly]

So we're in the same boat as Moses ? Jesus achieved nothing of note for us ?

[ClubV12]

The Millerites formed a core group of people that came out of the great disappointment of 1844. It was not until 1863 that that small group eventually organized themselves into a church we now call the Seventh-day Adventists.

[ClubV12]

In a sense we ARE in the same boat as Moses. The requirements have at once changed and yet remained the same. The early church determined circumcision for the GENTILES was no longer a requirement. Now consider that early church council for a moment. What WERE they doing? Considering doctrinal points! What would and would not apply to modern Christians, Jew and Gentile alike. They did not do away with all the laws and requirements. In fact they left us counsel on what to do WITH believers who DID NOT follow the laws left in tact! They were to be removed from the church, disfellowshipped. Whatever that council "bound on earth" was also "bound in heaven". There are STILL certain requirements a Christian must adhere to, if he wants to "engage" the angels of light on his behalf! If he wants to retain favor with God. Same boat Moses was in,,,,

[Lysimachus]

Well, if we are to interpret the above account concerning tongues in the way that BibleOnly interprets it, I guess he can no longer say that true Adventists didn't have the gift of the Spirit! lol

[BibleOnly]

God does not give the spirit along denominational lines, there's no reason any SDA could not be saved, if they asked God.

[John317]

I love Adventist history, this is one of the more intriguing historical items I've ever come across. Fascinating!

Very interesting information there. Thanks for posting it.

[Lysimachus]

The following is from J.N. Loughborough's book, "The Second Great Advent Movement":

Hundreds Converted

Revivals and the conversion of hundreds every-where followed the preaching of the advent doctrine, and especially was this the case as they approached the termination of the Jewish year 1843 (March 21, 1844). It was during that winter that the writer in his native village-Victor, N.Y.-first heard upon the subject, and though only twelve years of age, accepted, so far as understood, the second advent faith. Solemn indeed was the impression upon the people, not only in meetings, but everywhere. Victor was at that time only a village of some two hundred inhabitants, but the country round about was thickly settled. As the result of that series of meetings held in that small village, there were five hundred converts reported. {1905 JNL, GSAM 139.1}

Testimony of the Methodist Year Book

As to the mighty wave of revivals that followed in the track of the advent proclamation, we find in the Methodist Year Book that "during the four years from 1840 to 1844, 256,000 conversions took place in America." What was true in America was equally true in other countries where the call was made. "A mighty power went with the preaching, and souls were converted everywhere." As the first call to the marriage supper went to the churches,-"them that were bidden,"-it was through them extended to all who would come and share in the salvation awaiting the people of God. Whether the message was preached, prayed, or sung in "advent melodies," the mighty moving of the Spirit of God accompanied the work. {1905 JNL, GSAM 139.2}

Children Preaching in Sweden

In this connection we will notice how the Lord wrought to introduce the proclamation in those countries where the law forbade the preaching of anything contrary to the "established church." Sweden was one of those countries. There the Lord used little children to introduce the work. The first of this manifestation was in the summer of 1843, in Eksjo, southern Sweden. A little girl, only five years of age, who had never learned to read or sing, one day, in a most solemn manner, sang correctly a long Lutheran hymn, and then with great power proclaimed "the hour of his judgement is come," and exhorted the family to get ready to meet the Lord; for he was soon coming. The unconverted in the family called upon God for mercy, and found pardon. This movement spread from town to town, other children proclaiming the message. The same movement among children was manifest to some extent in Norway and Germany. {1905 JNL, GSAM 140.1}

"Yes! I Had to Preach"

In 1896, while holding meetings in seventeen different parts of Sweden, I passed through several places where the children had preached in 1843, and had opportunity to converse with those who had heard the preaching and with men who had preached when they were children. I said to one of them, "You preached the advent message when you were a boy?" He replied, "Preached! Yes, I had to preach. I had no devising in the matter. A power came upon me, and I uttered what I was compelled by that power to utter." {1905 JNL, GSAM 140.2}

Boquist and Walbom in Orebro, Sweden

In Orebro Laen (county) this work spread until older persons were moved to proclaim the message. Then the civil authorities, instigated by the priests of the "established church," arrested two young boys, Walbom, eighteen years of age, and Ole Boquist, fifteen years of age, saying they would make a public example of

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them. They whipped their bare backs with birch rods, and placed them, with their bleeding wounds, in Orebro prison. When these wounds healed, they took them out of the prison, demanding of them, "Will you cease preaching this doctrine?" Though they beat them with rods the second time, opening their wounds afresh, all the answer they could obtain was, "We will preach the preaching that the Lord bids us." Through the intercession of a prominent lady parishioner in Orebro, King Oscar I. told the authorities to let those boys out of the prison, and to let that people alone. So the victory for the truth was gained in Sweden. {1905 JNL, GSAM 140.3}

Boquist's Testimony

In the Review and Herald of Oct. 7, 1890, is a very interesting narrative in regard to the children's preaching, written by O. Boquist himself. He says:- {1905 JNL, GSAM 141.1}

"In the year 1843 a religious movement occurred among the people in Karlskoga Parish, in Orebro Laen. The leaders in this movement were children and young men, who were called 'rapare.' These preached with divine power, and proclaimed before the people, with great decision, that the hour of God's judgment had come. {1905 JNL, GSAM 141.2}

"In the fall of the same year, I, O. Boquist, then fifteen years of age, with another young man, Erik Walbom, eighteen years of age, became so influenced by this unseen power that we could in nowise resist it. As soon as we were seized by this heavenly power, we began to speak to the people, and to proclaim with a loud voice that the judgement hour had come, referring them to Joel 2:28-32 and Rev. 14:6, 7. {1905 JNL, GSAM 141.3}

Children in Vision

The people informed me that those who were thus influenced by this heavenly power were lost to everything around them. They were actually in vision from God, and spoke with a power that carried a mighty convicting influence. They said that these little children, while under that influence, would speak with

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the force and dignity of full-grown men and women. So those who saw it were led to conclude that it was the Lord using them prophetically to utter these solemn truths. The writer continues:- {1905 JNL, GSAM 141.4}

"The people congregated in large numbers to listen to us, and our meetings continued both day and night, and a great religious awakening was the result. Young and old were touched by the Spirit of God, and cried to the Lord for mercy confessing their sins before God and man. {1905 JNL, GSAM 142.1}

"But when the priest in the church was apprised of this, many efforts were put forth to silence us, and thus to stop the prevailing religious excitement; but all efforts were unavailing. The sheriff was then requested to cause our arrest, and during six weeks a fruitless search was made to find us in the forest, whither we had fled for refuge. {1905 JNL, GSAM 142.2}

"Finally, however, we were summoned to appear before the pastor of the church. Our number had increased so that forty young men and women presented themselves at the parsonage, where we were submitted to a long trial. All but myself and Walbom were permitted to return to their homes; but we were arrested, and on the following day were placed in custody in the Orebro prison, where we were associated with thieves in cell 14, as though we had committed some great crime." {1905 JNL, GSAM 142.3}

Boquist's Sister's Testimony

On Sept. 22, 1896, the sister of Boquist, seventy-two years of age, attended our meeting at Orebro, and told us about the experience of her brother; for she witnessed his whipping, imprisonment, and liberation. She sang for us the hymn that Boquist and Walbom sang as they walked out of the prison on to the bridge over the moat surrounding that sixteenth century castle, used in 1843 as a prison. The power of the 1843 movement accompanied the testimony and the singing of the hymn. Translated into English, the hymn is as follows:- {1905 JNL, GSAM 142.4}

Hymn Sung by Boquist and Walbom

"No one can ever reach the eternal rest,

Who hath not forward with strong vigor pressed;

No one can ever reach that shining goal,

Unless he forward press with heart and soul.

His urgent strife must last until the end;

On this alone our hopes must all depend.

Narrow the gate is called, the way named Small,

But grace and choice are free for one and all;

But all depends on pressing, pressing on;

By that alone the haven can be won. {1905 JNL, GSAM 143.1}

"Make strong, yea, strong resistance, O my soul!

To all that comes between thee and thy goal.

Gainst every hindrance fight. Stand firm! stand steady!

For those who forward press the crown is ready.

If you the joys of heaven would ever taste,

Press forward past each hindrance. Be in haste;

Leave, leave, O leave the wiles of all the world,

Thy banner of resistance still unfurled! {1905 JNL, GSAM 143.2}

"When the world calls thee, 'Come and with us go,'

Do not obey; that pathway leads to woe.

What the world asks, refuse at any cost,

If you comply, dear soul, you will be lost.

For love of Christ I offer this advice:

Strive in God's strength; this is the crown's own price.

To every hindrance make resistance strong;

The crown is worth the strife, however long. {1905 JNL, GSAM 143.3}

"The heaven of glory is worth all thy life,

Worth all thy praying, longing, all thy strife.

No disappointment in that realm can live,

The crown is worth all longing thou canst give.

Therefore wake up, and sharply look around,

Make ready for the judgment's trumpet sound;

For wedding garment, pure and white and whole,

Will be required of every suppliant soul

Who seeks an entrance to that city fair;

Therefore awaken, and thyself prepare. {1905 JNL, GSAM 143.4}

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"You cannot anchor on that heavenly shore,

Nor enter in that land 'prepared before,'

Unless you have the offered life of faith;

For this the Scripture very plainly saith.

'Tis faith alone that can the sinner save,

And ransom you from out the cruel grave. {1905 JNL, GSAM 144.1}

"Then listen, dear, and rise from thy sad fall;

God's grace abundant is, and free for all.

Believe, repent, and hear the Saviour say,

In words of beauty, 'This, this is the way.'

The world is all invited, let all come,

And take by force a crown within that home. {1905 JNL, GSAM 144.2}

"The Lord is willing, anxious to bestow

This gift on all who in his way will go.

Spare not thyself the struggle, but press on,

And soon, full soon, the victory will be won.

God's hand doth seek thy soul; he'll give thee rest;

Jesus is knocking, seeking for thy best.

Wake! 'tis God's Spirit that disturbs thy sleep;

They only will be saved who vigils keep." {1905 JNL, GSAM 144.3}

The Boy Preacher at Karlskoga

A gentlemen at Orebro related to me an occurrence at Karlskoga, where he resided in 1843. He said:- {1905 JNL, GSAM 144.4}

"A little boy eight years of age, who had never learned to read his letters, began to preach the message, quoting many scriptures. The people said, 'That boy is just filled with Bible.' This circumstance occurred after King Oscar had spoken in favor of the persecuted ones, so the priest of that place could not get the boy before the court to stop the work; but he told the people to bring the boy before him, and he would expose him, and show them his ignorance of the Bible. {1905 JNL, GSAM 144.5}

"Before a crowd of people the priest opened his hymn book, and asked the boy to read for him. The boy replied, 'I cannot read;' but turning his back to the priest, he sang the hymn through correctly from first to last, the priest meanwhile

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looking on the book in astonishment. The priest said to the lad, 'You seem to know everything.' The boy replied, 'No. We are not always permitted to tell all we do know.' {1905 JNL, GSAM 144.6}

"The priest then opened the New Testament and said to the boy, 'Read for me in this.' The boy replied, 'I cannot read.' The priest inquired, 'What do you know about the Bible anyway?' His reply was, 'I know where there is a text that has the word and in it fourteen times.' The priest said, 'No! there is no such text in the Bible.' The lad said, 'Will you please read for me Rev. 18:13?' 'Yes,' said the priest. As he read the people counted, and sure enough the word and was there just fourteen times, and among the fourteen times was the 'binding of the souls of men.' The people shouted, 'There! there! the boy knows more about the Bible than the priest!' Much chagrined, the priest dropped the subject, and left the people unmolested after that." {1905 JNL, GSAM 145.1}

So, out of the mouth of children the Lord confirmeth his word, and in this wonderful manner brought his truth to the ears of the people whose laws forbade the preaching of any doctrine but that of the "established religion." {1905 JNL, GSAM 145.2}

Gifts of the Spirit Connected with the Message

It was not in Sweden alone that the Lord, in connection with the advent movement, spoke to his people through the gifts of his Spirit. In Scotland, in England, and also in America the Lord has instructed his people by special revelations. {1905 JNL, GSAM 145.3}

[ClubV12]

John317, this is gleaned from Artur Whites work of several volumes of Ellen White and early church history. That is some serious reading, but oh what interesting details can be found within that tomb!

The section is:

"The Rescue of S.W. Rhodes" You might be able to find more information on the EGW CD rom concerning this. I'm still digging up some details, cross referrenced to other publications. An exhausting search.

[Lysimachus]

There's only one problem Club,

You did not give the source of your original post.

I could not find it on the Pioneer CD-Rom.

[ClubV12]

See above, I hope I just did. Let me see if I can be more specific, I have nothing to hide, nothing to fear!

...back in a moment...

[Lysimachus]

Some interesting stuff from Sister White:

----------------------------------------

false "tongues" identified in 1864

A spirit of fanaticism has ruled a certain class of Sabbathkeepers there; they have sipped but lightly at the fountain of truth and are unacquainted with the spirit of the message of the third angel. . . . {NL 49.2}

Some of these persons have exercises which they call gifts and say that the Lord has placed them in the church. They have an unmeaning gibberish which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven. Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver. Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the church. Some have been deceived here. . . . {NL 49.3}

Fanaticism and noise have been considered special evidences of faith. Some are not satisfied with a meeting

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unless they have a powerful and happy time. They work for this and get up an excitement of feeling. {NL 49.4}

But the influence of such meetings is not beneficial. When the happy flight of feeling is gone, they sink lower than before the meeting because their happiness did not come from the right source. The most profitable meetings for spiritual advancement are those which are characterized with solemnity and deep searching of heart; each seeking to know himself, and earnestly, and in deep humility, seeking to learn of Christ. . . . {NL 50.1}

There are wandering stars professing to be ministers sent of God who are preaching the Sabbath from place to place, but who have truth mixed up with error and are throwing out their mass of discordant views to the people. Satan has pushed them in to disgust intelligent and sensible unbelievers. Some of these have much to say upon the gifts and are often especially exercised. They give themselves up to wild, excitable feelings and make unintelligible sounds which they call the gift of tongues, and a certain class seem to be charmed with these strange manifestations. A strange spirit rules with this class, which would bear down and run over anyone who would reprove them. God's Spirit is not in the work and does not attend such workmen. They have another spirit. [TESTIMONIES, VOL. 1, PP. 411-414.] {NL 50.2}

The world will not be converted by the gift of tongues, or by the working of miracles, but by preaching Christ crucified. [TESTIMONIES TO MINISTERS, P. 424.] {NL 50.3}

[ClubV12]

From:

Chap. 13 - (1851) - The First Winter of "The Gathering Time"

White, A. L. (1985; 2002). Ellen G. White: The Early Years, 1827-1862 (Vol. 1); Ellen G. White Biography, Volume 1; The Early Years

Good stuff your posting Lysimachus.

BibleOnly, bear in mind you have now entered into a thread dealing with the history of the Seventh-day Adventist church. Obviously Ellen White is going to be a major component of THIS thread in particular. Please try to keep the questions, comments, "bashing" to a minmum and let those who believe rejoice in discovery. Enjoy your time on this thread, you might learn something of Adventists from the "inner circle".

[BibleOnly]

Some interesting stuff from Sister White:

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false "tongues" identified in 1864

A spirit of fanaticism has ruled a certain class of Sabbathkeepers there; they have sipped but lightly at the fountain of truth and are unacquainted with the spirit of the message of the third angel. . . . {NL 49.2}

Some of these persons have exercises which they call gifts and say that the Lord has placed them in the church. They have an unmeaning gibberish which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven. Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver. Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the church. Some have been deceived here. . . . {NL 49.3}

Fanaticism and noise have been considered special evidences of faith. Some are not satisfied with a meeting

49

unless they have a powerful and happy time. They work for this and get up an excitement of feeling. {NL 49.4}

But the influence of such meetings is not beneficial. When the happy flight of feeling is gone, they sink lower than before the meeting because their happiness did not come from the right source. The most profitable meetings for spiritual advancement are those which are characterized with solemnity and deep searching of heart; each seeking to know himself, and earnestly, and in deep humility, seeking to learn of Christ. . . . {NL 50.1}

There are wandering stars professing to be ministers sent of God who are preaching the Sabbath from place to place, but who have truth mixed up with error and are throwing out their mass of discordant views to the people. Satan has pushed them in to disgust intelligent and sensible unbelievers. Some of these have much to say upon the gifts and are often especially exercised. They give themselves up to wild, excitable feelings and make unintelligible sounds which they call the gift of tongues, and a certain class seem to be charmed with these strange manifestations. A strange spirit rules with this class, which would bear down and run over anyone who would reprove them. God's Spirit is not in the work and does not attend such workmen. They have another spirit. [TESTIMONIES, VOL. 1, PP. 411-414.] {NL 50.2}

The world will not be converted by the gift of tongues, or by the working of miracles, but by preaching Christ crucified. [TESTIMONIES TO MINISTERS, P. 424.] {NL 50.3}

OK, that's very interesting. I note there's not one scripture to back up the claims made in this passage. It sounds to me like the author did not have the Holy Spirit, and opposed those who did. Fascinating that this was happening, so long ago.

[Lysimachus]

It appears that this false gift of tongues was manifested even among Sabbath keepers according to Sister White. The fact that tongues was given confirming that Joseph Bates was right in his "6 o'clock to 6 o'clock" conclusion, yet later proven wrong from the Bible, is just one example of the "false manifestation of tongues" Ellen White was talking about.

It's amazing how the Devil interweaves a tiny bit of error with truth. It only happens to those who are not "FULLY" depending on God and His Word for answers, so Satan gets a foot in the door.

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

Some interesting stuff from Sister White:

----------------------------------------

false "tongues" identified in 1864

A spirit of fanaticism has ruled a certain class of Sabbathkeepers there; they have sipped but lightly at the fountain of truth and are unacquainted with the spirit of the message of the third angel. . . . {NL 49.2}

Some of these persons have exercises which they call gifts and say that the Lord has placed them in the church. They have an unmeaning gibberish which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven. Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver. Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the church. Some have been deceived here. . . . {NL 49.3}

Fanaticism and noise have been considered special evidences of faith. Some are not satisfied with a meeting

49

unless they have a powerful and happy time. They work for this and get up an excitement of feeling. {NL 49.4}

But the influence of such meetings is not beneficial. When the happy flight of feeling is gone, they sink lower than before the meeting because their happiness did not come from the right source. The most profitable meetings for spiritual advancement are those which are characterized with solemnity and deep searching of heart; each seeking to know himself, and earnestly, and in deep humility, seeking to learn of Christ. . . . {NL 50.1}

There are wandering stars professing to be ministers sent of God who are preaching the Sabbath from place to place, but who have truth mixed up with error and are throwing out their mass of discordant views to the people. Satan has pushed them in to disgust intelligent and sensible unbelievers. Some of these have much to say upon the gifts and are often especially exercised. They give themselves up to wild, excitable feelings and make unintelligible sounds which they call the gift of tongues, and a certain class seem to be charmed with these strange manifestations. A strange spirit rules with this class, which would bear down and run over anyone who would reprove them. God's Spirit is not in the work and does not attend such workmen. They have another spirit. [TESTIMONIES, VOL. 1, PP. 411-414.] {NL 50.2}

The world will not be converted by the gift of tongues, or by the working of miracles, but by preaching Christ crucified. [TESTIMONIES TO MINISTERS, P. 424.] {NL 50.3}

OK, that's very interesting. I note there's not one scripture to back up the claims made in this passage. It sounds to me like the author did not have the Holy Spirit, and opposed those who did. Fascinating that this was happening, so long ago.

She's speaking from Divine Revelation here. She'd be just another preacher quoting scriptures if she was alluding to the scriptures. But she was presenting a message the Lord had showed her in this instance.

[ClubV12]

"Fascinating that this was happening, so long ago."

Indeed, don't you just love history!!! This is as much American and world history as it is Adventist history. It seems almost like a foot note that Adventists came out of this tremendous world wide event. AS DID some other groups as well. The early Adventists weren't even Sabbath keepers, that came later. Truth is an ever advancing thing, Jesus wanted to tell His followers more, but they were not ready, they would not be able to understand. Luther, that great reformer, started a fire but he erred on many points. He had what truth he could bear for the time. As did the Millerites, as did the early Adventists, ever marching forward, gathering more precious gems of truth along the way. There is STILL more to come!! Stay tuned, it's going to be an exciting ride all the way to the finish.

Sister White had dealt with false tongues BEFORE Hiram Edson came along, so she was naturally skeptical of it. Nothing wrong with a few questions, at some point, we have to make a decisision. It is of God, or it isn't. Sometimes, it's a counterfit!

[BibleOnly]

It appears that this false gift of tongues was manifested even among Sabbath keepers according to Sister White. The fact that tongues was given confirming that Joseph Bates was right in his "6 o'clock to 6 o'clock" conclusion, yet later proven wrong from the Bible, is just one example of the "false manifestation of tongues" Ellen White was talking about.

It's amazing how the Devil interweaves a tiny bit of error with truth. It only happens to those who are not "FULLY" depending on God and His Word for answers, so Satan gets a foot in the door.

It's amazing that you think that satan can answer people who call on God, with physical evidence. And that you regard 'sister white' as an authority above the Bible, so that her writings don't have to quote the Bible to show they are true.